The Auswine Forum

Under cork, which retained a solid seal as well as its shape when extracted.

Yellow / gold in colour - lighter than I expected for a 12 year old. An almost delicate nose of lemon and lemon pith. There is a faint touch of honey and lime cordial here, but the overwhelming flavour is lemon purity.

The palate retains a fair amount of acid, but I am sure this has softened over the years, or come into balance.

I was prepared for this to be over the hill, but it is not. I'm pleasantly surprised by the balance, length and fruit purity. Unfortunately, I think I am down to my last couple of bottles of this vintage - one is under screwcap, however, and it would be interesting to open it alongside a cork sealed bottle.

Cheers
Allan

Thanks for the note. I love a good Elizabeth.

That's frustrating.

I've had 6 of these from the same case over the last 2 years and all have been horribly maderised. Colour was consistently dark yellow/copper and the wines smelled and tasted like sherry with a huge acid hit and no fruit remaining. All bottles sealed with cork, and the case was stored in perfect conditions since purchased at release. A few 98's and 99's also consumed around the same period were similar.

Six bottles remain, yet I've little desire to open them. It's become almost a joke in our household that I need to clear out the sink, to make way for tipping the wine, just prior to opening a bottle of 02 Elizabeth. This has unfortunately tarnished the reputation of not only the brand, but also the variety, as my wife now approaches ALL Semillon with trepidation. Thankfully, recent good bottles of Lovedale (cork) and Tyrrell's single vineyard wines (screwcap) have ensured that my own faith hasn't (yet) waivered.

2002 Elizabeth was the first one I was aware of that had some released under screwcap, so I went after it, and found a case.

I've only had a couple of bottles to date, and it's been fine. Last one was in the last 6 months or so.

Mphatic, I can sympathise, although my hit / miss ratio has not been as bad as yours.

Cuttlefish, you've done yourself a favour by getting 2002 E under screwcap. I only have one bottle (after making my annual case purchase under cork); however, everything since 2003 has all been under screwcap, and I think they are better and longer-living wines as a result. As I clear out my older E's it will be good to have a stock of screwcap-only bottles.

Cheers
Allan

mphatic wrote: Colour was consistently dark yellow/copper and the wines smelled and tasted like sherry with a huge acid hit and no fruit remaining. All bottles sealed with cork, and the case was stored in perfect conditions since purchased at release. A few 98's and 99's also consumed around the same period were similar.

To me this doesn't sound like anything to do with cork but rather poor shipping and storage - the dark colour and madeirized nose are key indicators. The wines were likely heat affected before purchase. With Australia's hot weather this may be a common occurance when being shipped and unloaded - sitting out in the sun on a shipping dock before and and after delivery. In Sydney I once bought a current release riesling from a bottle shop in a shopping mall and when opened the same day it dark yellow and oxidized. I regularly drink older whites and the ones from my collection only turn dark yellow with really extended aging - like 20 years. However, older wines off store shelves are a different matter.

Two winters ago I found some '03 Peter Howland 'Maxwell Vineyard' Chardonnay and of course I was concerned that it might be oxidized but it was on clearance and inexpensive - defintely worth a try. I bought a bottle found that it was a pretty yellow gold, quite mature, perhaps from the shelf aging, but went extraordinarily well with rich, creamy, seafood pasta. So I went back and bought the remaining two bottles. Fast forward another year or so and I stumbled on some of this wine in another store. This time the extra time on the shelf had taken it's toll and the wine, while still quite okay, was darker and much furthur along.

Cheers...........................Mahmoud.

Hi Mahmoud,

I generally agree that shipping and heat are contributors. I've observed countless examples of non-refrigerated delivery trucks parked during a hot Brisbane summer, doors open, while offloading to wine merchants. When I think of the effort and expense I outlay in order to carefully store wines that were likely treated in a similar manner, I shudder. However that doesn't exonerate cork entirely.

I've never had a screwcap-sealed white that I thought was heat-affected or prematurely oxidised. I'm aware of the issue relating to damaged screwcaps and the potential for air ingress but my own observations and experience lead me to believe that the incidence is quite low.

From my own tastings, the strike rate for TCA (or other taints) and premature oxidation in mid-90's to early 2000's Elizabeths and Lovedales is far higher than for any other wines I consume. I regularly attended the Royal Brisbane wine show tastings and, on numerous occasions, required multiple bottles of the said wines to be opened before finding a good one. And I'm not even broaching the topic of bottle variation here...

It's worth noting that I'm not trying to bash Mount Pleasant (in fact I buy from them regularly and believe they're doing great things recently), nor bash cork-sealed wines in general (OK, maybe a bit), but rather outline my own chequered history with the label.

Got a bunch of Elizabeth Semillon 2002 under screwcap about 6 months ago. All were in excellent condition. Agree with Waiters Friend that it is still young for a 12 year old.

I don't think it's just Mount Pleasant - semillon under cork in general is something I avoid because of oxidation issues.

mphatic wrote: I've never had a screwcap-sealed white that I thought was heat-affected or prematurely oxidised. I'm aware of the issue relating to damaged screwcaps and the potential for air ingress but my own observations and experience lead me to believe that the incidence is quite low.

Surely that is anecdotal. Screwcap-sealed wines are not impervious to heat affectation - otherwise that would signify a development that would revolutionize the wine trade - no more requirement to refrigerate trucks and containers. Imagine the savings.

mphatic wrote: From my own tastings, the strike rate for TCA (or other taints) and premature oxidation in mid-90's to early 2000's Elizabeths and Lovedales is far higher than for any other wines I consume. I regularly attended the Royal Brisbane wine show tastings and, on numerous occasions, required multiple bottles of the said wines to be opened before finding a good one. And I'm not even broaching the topic of bottle variation here...

It's worth noting that I'm not trying to bash Mount Pleasant (in fact I buy from them regularly and believe they're doing great things recently), nor bash cork-sealed wines in general (OK, maybe a bit), but rather outline my own chequered history with the label.

You may not be bashing Mount Pleasant but within all this is a suggestion that something has gone wrong with their wines in the period you mention - "far higher than for any other wines I consume." I have already said before that I believe many Australian winemakers have scrimped on corks, opting for the less expensive corks that, in the long run, don't deliver.

Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote: I have already said before that I believe many Australian winemakers have scrimped on corks, opting for the less expensive corks that, in the long run, don't deliver.

Mahmoud.

Indeed. Witness:
2002 Tahbilk Marsanne - Australia, Victoria, Central Victoria, Nagambie Lakes (7/18/2011)
{cork - stamped "CSA R2", 12.5%} Even looking at this, unopened, through the dark green glass, I knew it was oxidised all to hell. Ullage was fine, and only in one spot was the cork (R2 = "reference 2" I suppose, as supplied to Australia - doubtless it's 3rd rate rubbish) stained to about halfway up. Nonetheless, the wine was a dark yellow; exactly the kind of urine sample you'd be afraid to give to a doctor. And although parts of the structure have survived - the acid spine is magnificent - the aromas and flavours are mildly sherried and flat, and there is no length of flavour whatsoever. The is was my last cork-sealed, standard-release Tahbilk Marsanne (from the 03 vintage the Australian market got screwcapped bottles); how disappointingly fitting it should be ruined as a tribute to all the other ruined vintages that have gone before. Sigh. NR (flawed)

cheers,
GG

Has anyone tried the 2007 recently?

Rick

Bytown Rick wrote:Has anyone tried the 2007 recently?

Rick

Yes, a couple of times. A good vintage for this wine, and may last longer than the 2004 and 2006.

Waiters Friend wrote:
Yes, a couple of times. A good vintage for this wine, and may last longer than the 2004 and 2006.

Thank you.

Rick