The Auswine Forum

Hi Everyone,

This is my first real post.

I would really like some thoughts on this matter:

I am intent on finding a (Australian) wine to invest in, purely for personal future vertical tasting purposes.

I want to buy 37 (screw capped) bottles of a current release vintage of either white or red wine, taste one bottle and write my first tasting note about it. I will cellar the remaining 36 bottles in good conditions (wine storage locker).

Next year I will buy 36 bottles of the same wine but of that year's current vintage. I will do a (small) vertical tasting of one bottle of each wine and will write a tasting note for each.

I will cellar the remaining 35 bottles alongside the previous 35 bottles, buy the next vintage, do a vertical tasting, store the remaining 34 bottles, so on and so forth for a total of 36 years.

So if I were to commence my odyssey this year, buying the 2012 vintage of whichever wine I choose, in 2051 I will host the final vertical tasting of 1 bottle of each of all the 36 previous vintages going back to vintage 2012, leaving no single bottle unopened. The thought of tasting 36 vintages of the same wine in one sitting may be a little daunting but I am hoping that by that stage I will be so practised that monotony will be of no concern! And I will be mid-seventies in age!

I wish this adventure to be one that I share with a small group of family, friends and industry mates over the whole period, not asking any money from anyone.

The criteria:

The wine must have a proven track record for long term ageing.

It must have long-enough a history/pedigree to guarantee not to go out of production (at least not for the next 36 years).

I have to be able to buy this wine in non-case (single bottle) format. I cannot afford the storage or cost of the extra bottles if I have to buy in 6's or 12's.

I can't afford more than around $60/bottle (around 700 bottles @ $60 = $42 000. I have done a quick calculation and I think I would be up for storage costs of maybe $18 000.)

So!

I need your advice about which wine would satisfy these criteria!

Tyrrell's Vat 1 Semillon

Grosset Riesling

Tyrrell’s Vat 9

Mount Pleasant Old Paddock and Old Hill

Wendouree Red, if I can get on the mailing list and develop a relationship with them!

Any other suggestions please!!!

I would prefer a red but accept that I may not be able to afford one which would age gracefully for 36 years!

I would not mind if, in 36 years’ time, the earlier vintages are a little over the hill; they will have their place...

I am serious about this and would be happy to share my tasting notes in the future.

Thoughts?

Dave.

Great project Dave!

As much as i am a huge Hunter advocate, a Hunter red is out of the question if you want 36 years of sustained production. Both 2008 and 2012 were red washouts, and no premiums produced. Vat 1 is a great wine, but 36 years is very optimistic for the oldest wines. I had a 1989 recently, and it was shot. Nose was ok, but the palate was long gone.

I'd be going Barossa if it was me - there are many great reds that would see out at least 30 years for that price, and vintage conditions rarely wash out the entire vintage, but you will have some bad years in there (hopefully after a while so you aren't buying 37 bottles of a dud).

Rockford Basket Press is around $50 from the cellar door
Greenock Creek Seven Acre ($48) or Apricot Block ($38) or Alice's ($30), though 36 years again would be a bit long. (Also, quite morbidly, Michael in all realism won't see out another 36 years, especially not as winemaker, and who knows what will happen to the company in future?)
Head Wines would be great, but again, they haven't existed long, and who knows what the next 36 years holds? The Brunette is $50, and while it is only in 6s from the website, plenty of online retailers such as auswine.com.au! sell single bottles.

Coonawarra Cabernet is another option
The good ol' Wynn's Black Label can be found sub $30 on special, and there are definitely great vintages where it sees 30+ years.

Good luck, this seems really interesting. I wish I'd thought of this idea!

Out of interest - why did you pick 36 years? In trying to think of wines that fit your criteria, the age is probably the most limiting factor; either the wine won't last 36 years, or there's no guarantee it will exist in 36 years.

Just flicking through Langton's:

Penfolds Bin 389 - though it will exceed $60 when not on uber-special, and who knows - TWE will probably price the 2012 at $4,000
Craiglee Shiraz - $53 - have heard anecdotally it lasts 30+ in an average vintage

$60 a bottle now may be OK, but have you accounted for inflation of wine prices. Penfolds being the case in point as Dan stated. Their prices are rising much faster than inflation and the way they are going Bin 389 will be over $100 very soon. As much as I am not a huge fan of Penfolds, Bin 389 would be a safe bet for your idea. Wendouree would be great but good luck getting as many bottles as you want. Wynn's Black Label would probably be an option as well. Perhaps some of the better Margaret River Cabs may be an option but in all honesty, your $60 limit makes it difficult to find a wine that will age 30+ years. I'm sure the well educated on here will have some better ideas than me though.

If money wasn't an object then Mt Edelstone would be my choice.

Cheers
Ian

Two more thoughts:

Henschke Keyneton Euphonium
Shaw + Smith Shiraz

I've just done some figures in the attachment assuming the following:

1. 20 Year (21 including current year), not 36 Year
2. 2 wines, Tyrrell's Vat 1 ($40) and Greenock Creek Apricot Block ($38)
3. Costs were costs for most recent releases
4. Costs go up with a high(ish) inflation rate of 3%, then rounded.
5. Storage is based on my local place ($3 per case per month), half cases charge at full rate.
6. Storage costs are worked out on year end, where I have added new bottles, and removed those drunk during the year.

Very interesting how affordable this is. I know it isn't the 36 year plan, and not saying for a second you should do this, but it increases the options a bit re longevity. Largest outlay was $2007, which was very surprising.
A nice party to be had in 2034 - 21 vintages of Tyrrell's Vat 1 and Greenock Creek Apricot Block, all perfectly cellared, screwcaps.

You're asking a lot for a $60 wine (or any Aussie wine around that price, for that matter) to go 36 years! Maybe try Best's Bin 0 Shiraz? Although you have to remember that in bad years some wineries just don't make their premium labels. A 36 year unbroken streak will mean there will definitely be dud wines from shitty vintages in that line up.

Penfolds would be the best bet as they make their range (or at least most of it) rain, hail or shine. Bin 389 would be a good place to start, although I doubt the current crop can go the distance like they could way back.

Interesting project!

Not a fan of Greenock Creek myself, and your tastes may change and want something more 'classical' FWOABWord

For white I'd be looking at Vat 1 or a quality Riesling with a track record, like Seppelt Drumborg, Petaluma, Pewsey Contours, Grosset Watervale/Springvale (I'm not a Polish Hill convert) or maybe Crawford River.

For red... Have to say Cabernet. Penfolds do have the reputation, but I'm not a fan of their lower level Cabernet these days, Bin 389 would be a good safe choice though, but for the $$ factor. Ian had some good suggestions above. Margaret River, Coonawarra Cab, Bests Bin 0, Parker Terra Rossa, Wynns Black Label etc

Don't write off Hunter though, although some vintages are not made or very poor, this can happen anywhere. Tyrrells Vat 9/Old Patch/Seven Acres would be high on my list. And if a vintage is skipped, something similar but different or related somehow would always add great interest and variety to the huge vertical too!

Cheers
TiggerK

Definitely not a fan of mid 2000s Greenock Creek, but I think they've reigned in the ridiculous alcohol levels, and settled around 14-15.5 most wines. Great wines when they aren't overpowered with hot alcohol.

Re Hunter, I would go some of the single vineyard/sacred sites Tyrrell's for longevity, but they don't always make them in good vintages, let along the washouts. Vat 9 or Vat 8 are the only viable options here, no 4 Acres in 2013, 2012, 2008 - too many misses - the grapes went into Old Winery in 2013.

I'd be scouring the Auctions for mid-80's wines to try. Buying a bunch of different producers and seeing how they are faring (obviously provenance is a factor but it will give you some idea of their staying power)

Lakes Folly Cabernets, Wynns Black Label, Lindemans Pyrus, Yalumba The Signature, Leo Buring Riesling, Petaluma Riesling, Hunter Semillons, Tahbilk Marsannes.

I would seriously consider Woodlands Margaret reserve Cab Merlot, as the price is right at under $40, pedigree is impeccable, and so often you will be assured of a great vintage.

For consistency in vintage quality, recent history points to WA. What about Voyager Estate Cab Merlot?

Yalumba Signature
Kay Brothers Hillside or Block 6