The Auswine Forum

Hi Guys,

Im new to collecting wines, specifically Penfolds Grange, hence the reason i want to get this right ASAP.

Im ripping my hair out daily worrying about the Temperature to set my Cellar Fridge at.
I have a 30 bottle Delonghi Wine Fridge.

Now according to the dicussion i had with Penfolds directly they advised between 13 degree's and 16 degree's for Grange to store for a long time (im planning to store them for-ever really) not to drink.

BUT according to EVERYTHINGGG i read on the internet 55 Degree's Fahrenheit to 60 Degree's Fahrenheit is recommended. which is 12.7 degrees to 15.5 degree's.
So its much the same and i do understand this.

NOW the problem im having is this.
How much of a temperature change is ok and doesnt really affect the long-term aging process ?

My Cellar Fridge is set at 14 Degree's, but flucuates on the LCD screen from 13 - 16 (which is normal i think isnt it ???)
I bought a HYGROMETER to measure the temperature in the Wine Fridge and it seems to be going down to about 12.6 degree's - 15 degree's.

If i set the Cellar Fridge to 15 degree's it then fluctuates from about 13.5 to 15.8.

Should i be worrying so much ? about these changes ?
And is the colder setting much safer than a warmer setting (even thought when i say warmer its still only 15.5 degrees maxxxx.

Lastly im bearing in mind that there is a plus and minus of 1 degree in temperature and 5% plus and minus in humidity.

Humidity on the 14 degree settings is going as low as 55% to 75%
on the 15 degree setting goes from 60 % to 80%

Hope someone can read all this and take it in and give me a good idea of if this all matters or not, and if its safer to sit colder at say 12.7degrees - 15 degrees bearing in mind a degree either side in false reading.

Thanks everyone

Id set it at 13 degrees and make sure it's in an area of your house that also has a fairly even temperature so the fridge doesn't have to work too hard to maintain it.
Your humidity seems fine, around 60-70 is good.

May I ask why you are collecting Grange if you are never going to drink it??
It's this kind of thing that drives up the prices, and personally I don't like it. Hopefully you are going to gift it to someone who will appreciate it.

Dan wrote:Id set it at 13 degrees and make sure it's in an area of your house that also has a fairly even temperature so the fridge doesn't have to work too hard to maintain it.
Your humidity seems fine, around 60-70 is good.

May I ask why you are collecting Grange if you are never going to drink it??
It's this kind of thing that drives up the prices, and personally I don't like it. Hopefully you are going to gift it to someone who will appreciate it.

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your opinion, i currently have it set at 14, which flucuates from 12.6ish to 15 absolute max.
As for the drinking, ive never loved to drink alchol, but i love to collect things, nice things
I started this collection this year as my twin boys were born this year and it will go to them oneday
If they drink them so be it, if not thats fine....im the type to collect things for life.

Anyway, back to your question. A fluctuation of 3 or 4 degrees daily is a bit of a problem if you are planning to store for 20 or so years.
That much fluctuation over the seasons (ie 15 in summer and 12 in winter) wont matter much at all.

wineboy wrote:

Dan wrote:Id set it at 13 degrees and make sure it's in an area of your house that also has a fairly even temperature so the fridge doesn't have to work too hard to maintain it.
Your humidity seems fine, around 60-70 is good.

May I ask why you are collecting Grange if you are never going to drink it??
It's this kind of thing that drives up the prices, and personally I don't like it. Hopefully you are going to gift it to someone who will appreciate it.

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your opinion, i currently have it set at 14, which flucuates from 12.6ish to 15 absolute max.
As for the drinking, ive never loved to drink alchol, but i love to collect things, nice things
I started this collection this year as my twin boys were born this year and it will go to them oneday
If they drink them so be it, if not thats fine....im the type to collect things for life.

Ahhhhh Wineboy...famous last words!!
Unless you live under a rock, are a teetotaller or some unique breed of wine nut that I am yet to encounter, your position is rather flawed.
You are new to the collection game and one could say Grange...boring.
I have 2 sons, birth years 94 and 97. I have singles and magnums...but not to drink them with them or to share with others along the way...never going to happen with me or YOU.

I think you will soon contract that infectious disease, that most have here...twitchy fingers, sweats confirming the suspicions of provenance, Grange at auction could be cooked you know...which all leads to you opening one. Can't see why if you are collecting this wine exclusively how a 30 bottle wine fridge will cut it. Single bottle purchases are fraught with danger for a host of reasons.

I give you 5 years or less, particularly with wines that are 20 years old with the associated suspect corks...to open one.

Cheers Craig.

phillisc wrote:

wineboy wrote:

Dan wrote:Id set it at 13 degrees and make sure it's in an area of your house that also has a fairly even temperature so the fridge doesn't have to work too hard to maintain it.
Your humidity seems fine, around 60-70 is good.

May I ask why you are collecting Grange if you are never going to drink it??
It's this kind of thing that drives up the prices, and personally I don't like it. Hopefully you are going to gift it to someone who will appreciate it.

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your opinion, i currently have it set at 14, which flucuates from 12.6ish to 15 absolute max.
As for the drinking, ive never loved to drink alchol, but i love to collect things, nice things
I started this collection this year as my twin boys were born this year and it will go to them oneday
If they drink them so be it, if not thats fine....im the type to collect things for life.

Ahhhhh Wineboy...famous last words!!
Unless you live under a rock, are a teetotaller or some unique breed of wine nut that I am yet to encounter, your position is rather flawed.
You are new to the collection game and one could say Grange...boring.
I have 2 sons, birth years 94 and 97. I have singles and magnums...but not to drink them with them or to share with others along the way...never going to happen with me or YOU.

I think you will soon contract that infectious disease, that most have here...twitchy fingers, sweats confirming the suspicions of provenance, Grange at auction could be cooked you know...which all leads to you opening one. Can't see why if you are collecting this wine exclusively how a 30 bottle wine fridge will cut it. Single bottle purchases are fraught with danger for a host of reasons.

I give you 5 years or less, particularly with wines that are 20 years old with the associated suspect corks...to open one.

Cheers Craig.

Sorry im abit confused with your comments.
I have mainly been buying GRANGE thats already passed the Penfolds Clinic recently.
BUT having said that i have purchased some bottles that are yet to be clinic'ed like the 71 and 76, and will be taking that to the clinic this year to be assessed......i guess if its cooked its cooked i wasted my money, but if its good im laughing......so other than the CLINIC opening my bottles and testing them for me i wont be opening anything.

Dan wrote:Anyway, back to your question. A fluctuation of 3 or 4 degrees daily is a bit of a problem if you are planning to store for 20 or so years.
That much fluctuation over the seasons (ie 15 in summer and 12 in winter) wont matter much at all.

Sorry Dan bit confused with your answer.

You said: A fluctuation of 3 or 4 degrees daily is a bit of a problem if you are planning to store for 20 or so years, but then you say: That much fluctuation over the seasons (ie 15 in summer and 12 in winter) wont matter much at all.

???

The Wine Fridge when set at 14, goes from 13 to 15 on teh screen......but the HYGOMETER i placed inside to test the temperature shows a close match approx 12.6 as a minimum ive seen and up to 14.9/15.

Thats perfect isnt it ???

It's the expanding and contacting of air inside the bottle, if the temperature change is very gradual (15 all summer and 12 all winter) then this is much better than having it happen rapidly and repeatedly (every day), causing the wine to oxidize and age prematurely.

Dan wrote:It's the expanding and contacting of air inside the bottle, if the temperature change is very gradual (15 all summer and 12 all winter) then this is much better than having it happen rapidly and repeatedly (every day), causing the wine to oxidize and age prematurely.

Ok Ok i undersdtand now, thanks for explaining.
Ive also spoken to VINTEC and they advise me that all Wine Cellar Fridges fluctuate to regulate temperature.
So if you set it at 15 they stated that according to the room its in it will try and regulate that 15 degrees, and sometimes go up to 16 and sometimes down to 14 depending on the ambient room temperature.

Apparently there isnt a fridge that can sustain 1 set temperature to the degree and all have a plus and minus 1 degree buffer.

The temp fluctuations you are seeing is the air temp, not the wine. I doubt the wine temp is changing much at all.

daver6 wrote:The temp fluctuations you are seeing is the air temp, not the wine. I doubt the wine temp is changing much at all.

Ohhh ok i get you.
So if i set the temperature on the Wine Fridge to 14 degrees......once the Wine Fridge gets to that temperature the WINE will stay at 14 degrees ?
But your saying the air temp is the only thing thats changes to try and keep it at that setting of 14 yes ??

makes sence ?
is this what you mean ?

Not quite.

I'm saying the wine temp wont fluctuate as much as the air temp. Think about it this way. When you put a bottle of water in the fridge, it takes time for it to cool down to fridge temp. In the same way, as the air temp rises a degree or two in the fridge, the wine wont instantenously change to that temp. It will slowly go up. However, Id imagine by this time the cooling unit will have reactivated and the air temp will drop again.

In my cellar I have a bucket of water with a temp gauge in it. This fluctuates a few tenths of a degree for a degree or two of air temp variation. Is it perfect, no. Is it better than no cellar. Sure is. Could it be better, yes...but getting that perfect cave like experience is not something Im willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money on.

daver6 wrote:Not quite.

I'm saying the wine temp wont fluctuate as much as the air temp. Think about it this way. When you put a bottle of water in the fridge, it takes time for it to cool down to fridge temp. In the same way, as the air temp rises a degree or two in the fridge, the wine wont instantenously change to that temp. It will slowly go up. However, Id imagine by this time the cooling unit will have reactivated and the air temp will drop again.

In my cellar I have a bucket of water with a temp gauge in it. This fluctuates a few tenths of a degree for a degree or two of air temp variation. Is it perfect, no. Is it better than no cellar. Sure is. Could it be better, yes...but getting that perfect cave like experience is not something Im willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money on.

ok i understand.
you are right i see the temperature drop/increase 1 degree but like 5 minutes or so later its back to what i set at. Which i presume is just the fridge keeping it at what i want the temperature to be.

Last question if i plan to store my wines for mannyyyyyy years (20+) do i set at 13 degree's and this has a average humidity of say 60% approx.....or 14 degrees and 70% ??
13 or 14 ?

Im no expert, but I doubt there will be much difference in the long term. The wines might age slightly more slowly at 13 degrees, but whether there is a noticeable difference or not is debatable.

daver6 wrote:Im no expert, but I doubt there will be much difference in the long term. The wines might age slightly more slowly at 13 degrees, but whether there is a noticeable difference or not is debatable.

ok fair enough well thanks very much for your opinion, youve been a great help.
if i set to 13 Degrees i guess ill need to just watch the humidity stays above 55% so im safe.