The Auswine Forum

Hello

I am slowly discovering German Rieslings.

Need advice from you guys, what would you recommend me to try and taste?

Picked up German '09 Kabinett Semi Dry Riesling by Schloss Vollrads Vineyards costed me something like $20 (maybe worth couple euros back in Germany? ) I found it too fruity for my palate. Should have picked "Dry" next time.

They over-priced in Australia? Guessing they would be more expensive here than back in their homeland, after seen the average booze prices in Europe couple years ago, hell a lot cheaper than what we pay here!

The Germans are not dumping their "exports" here, and they keep the best for themselves? I mean Penfolds exports their wines, and not everyone in Australia in a fan of their Pensfolds here, like We export Fosters (brewed overseas of course) we don't "sterotyped" drink Fosters here, maybe the Pommies in Australia do If you know what I am trying to say/mean here?

Found a shop in Melbourne has impressive collection of German Wines.

Thanks in advance.

Damon

found this german riesling classifications chart very helpful for newbie here.

Gave me better understanding.

damonpeyo wrote:
Need advice from you guys, what would you recommend me to try and taste?

Should have explained somewhere in $20-50-ish range for me to explore.

Thanks again.

Hi Damon,

There are a couple of guys who frequent here who know quite a lot about German Riesling, and should be able to help you.

First things first, the pyramid chart you have is quite useful, as long as you read the footnote carefully. The Tafelwein,QBA and the various QmP classifications are ripeness measures, which arent necessarily sweetness measures.

However - German labelling can be some of the most confusing, infuriating stuff in the wine world. You will also find words like trocken (dry), halbtrocken, feinherb. And in some cases makers just use the regular english word to describe a wine.

if you have found a Kabinett Semi Dry wine too fruity, then I would suggest looking for Feinherb or Trocken wines. if in doubt or these words dont appear on the label, ask your friendly retailer first.

Aus is not a dumping ground for German gear. I spent some time in Germany including 3 days in the Mosel in 2010, and its clear that Germany's very best can be bought in Aus. Yes they are dearer here thansk to our hideous tax system, but they are here. IN fact som esmall makers regard Australia as an important market, as a significant proportion of their production comes here. The very best German names like:

JJ Prum
Egon Muller
Donnhoff
Schloss Lieser
Fritz Haag
Willi Schaefer
Dr Loosen

Can all be found here, with a myriad of others too, from the large to the boutique.

All of these will have something in the dry or just off dry style that should suit you.

Be aware that the sweet wines can be astronomically expensive, dearere than Sauternes.

Hope this helps to start,

Andrew

An excellent list of top producers by Andrew.

If use to dry Riesling, there's quite a palate adjustment needed when drinking 'fruity' styled German Rieslings. It's worth noting that Mosel (including Saar & Ruwer) spätlese & auslese may not appear as sweet as expected, due to the deceptive high acidity. balance is everything.
Top spätlese & auslese can age effortlessly, the latter 20+ years.
I've recently returned from a first visit to the region. 2011 wines have an immediacy & accessibility with good potential. 2010 need considerable time due to the very high acidity but are highly regarded & could turn out great. There has been a great run of vintages. Look out 2007 & 2001, take care with selecting 2006 & great care with 2003.
A couple of up & coming 'newish' producers to seek out: AJ Adam & Vollenweider.
Other outstanding producers: Eitelsbacher Karthäuserhofberg (no label other than on neck, Auslese offers v. good value), Gunderloch, Schäfer-Frölich, Zilliken, Weins-Prüm (real value), JJ Christoffel.
German Riesling remains greatly under appreciated & this underpriced. Long may it remain so.

You should also look a bit further afield and get some Alsatians and Austrian Rieslings. Some sublime drinking across these. Levels of complexity we seldom see in Australian Rieslings.

Thanks!

Thanks again for the helpful reply Andrew., and the vintage year/s notes Mark.

I decided to bite the bullet and fork out $35 on 2008 Dr Loosen Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Kabinett 7.5% alcohol I was very glad I did, it was far better than the '09 Kabinett Semi Dry Riesling by Schloss Vollrads Vineyards, more finer and less fruity, more balanced than the other. Crisp Peachy-Lime notes, lovely drop with nice lovely mineral characters, starting to understand when people talk about mineral notes in German wines. Surprised at the low alcohol content.

I am impressed. Went really well with French Brie, St.Agur Blue and Tassie Vintage Cheeses. Just prefect match for my palate with those cheeses.

Guess I got many future tastings to do and lots more things to learn in this area of German Rieslings!

2008 Heymann-Löwenstein Riesling Schieferterrassen.

Got a case of these. 1 left. Real good.

Aaah, if you've found a kabinett that floats your boat Damon, then a whole new world is about to open up to you! I agree with Mark, once you get to kabinett or higher, acid is very important, and balance becomes key.

You will pay $30 to $50 for good quality kabinett, less for QbA. I cut my teeth on entry wines like Dr Loosen ""Dr L", Gunderloch "Fritz", that I think are about $20 now.

To complement Marks thoughts on vintages in Mosel Saar and Ruwer, and also Nahe, for me 09 and 01 are the big ones from the last decade. '10 is rippingly acidic. 08 is classical, less ripe, and accessible early. 07 very good, also accessible early. 06 was a big botrytis vintage, but imo a long keeper with strong acids submerged by strong sugars right now, and heaven if you like big rich sweeter styles. Im' also hearing 11 is shaping up as a more accessible vintage after 10.

I'd also add Zilliken, Maximin Grunhaus, Schaefer Frohlich, Emrich Schonleber, Robert Wiel, Muller Catoir and AJ Adam (I'm loving his '10s right now) as other top notch ones available in Aus. There must be about a dozen others as well.

Also if you like the off dry style look closer to home to New Zealand: Pegasus Bay, Felton Road, Mt Difficulty, Forrest, Fromm, Neudorf (and of course Auburn )

cheers

Andrew

A few thoughts from 5 days in the Mosel at the start of the month:

- there haven't been any poor vintages since 2000, though there is a fair bit of variation between vintages. I'm enjoying 2004 at present - at a tasting a JJ Prum, they specifically poured the '04 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese ahead of the '07 and '09 so that it wouldn't be overshadowed by the bigger vintages, but it was still extremely enjoyable. Also enjoyed an '04 Loosen Urziger Wurtzgarten Spatlese.

- '11 is a lush, (relatively) low acid vintage - closest to '03 in style. Certainly earlier drinking than '10 but not a classical vintage.

- don't know if they're imported into Aus, but also tasted some excellent wines at Reinhold Haart, St Urbans Hof, Karl Erbes and Weiser-Kunstler ( another new-comer getting good press, and who tell me they will be in Aus this summer). The Haart and St Urbans Hof wines from the Piesporter Goldtropfchen vineyard, in particular, represent quite a different perspective on Mosel Riesling, with lush tropical fruit bowl flavours.

Cheers
Peter

Peter NZ wrote:A few thoughts from 5 days in the Mosel at the start of the month:

- there haven't been any poor vintages since 2000, though there is a fair bit of variation between vintages. I'm enjoying 2004 at present - at a tasting a JJ Prum, they specifically poured the '04 Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese ahead of the '07 and '09 so that it wouldn't be overshadowed by the bigger vintages, but it was still extremely enjoyable. Also enjoyed an '04 Loosen Urziger Wurtzgarten Spatlese.

- '11 is a lush, (relatively) low acid vintage - closest to '03 in style. Certainly earlier drinking than '10 but not a classical vintage.

- don't know if they're imported into Aus, but also tasted some excellent wines at Reinhold Haart, St Urbans Hof, Karl Erbes and Weiser-Kunstler ( another new-comer getting good press, and who tell me they will be in Aus this summer). The Haart and St Urbans Hof wines from the Piesporter Goldtropfchen vineyard, in particular, represent quite a different perspective on Mosel Riesling, with lush tropical fruit bowl flavours.

Cheers
Peter

G'day Peter, glas you enjoyed the Mosel!

Haart, St Urbans Hof both here, not the other two though. I have some Haart, big rich wines. I quite like 04 and 08 for their more classical profiles than 07/09 an 05,

Damon

There is some good advice above. One thing you should be aware of when drinking and collecting riesling is that it seriously goes to sleep about 4 years out and may not reemerge for up for 10-12 years. For one reason or another I have had a good nudge at a case of 2007 Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Riesling Spätlese. About 12 months away it was a glorious wine with great depth and a superb acid structure to support a palate of pear, apple and honeysuckle. Sadly the last two bottle have lost all the fruit. There is nothing wrong with the wine it has simply just rolled up and gone to bed for the next decade. When it wakes up again it will once again be a spectacular wine but oh so much more interesting.

You should be aware that Schloss Vollrads is hardly a flash label these days. Its probably to Riesling what Oyster Bay is the Sav Blanc.