The Auswine Forum

Quite dark in the glass, and chucking a crystalline crust. Decanting recommended (I didn't).

After 20 minutes in glass, an interestingly mixed nose of blackcurrant, olive tapenade (i.e. almost salty) and hints of tobacco.

A slight hint of Coonawarra mint on a full palate - lots of dusty tannins, and some slightly bitter or dark chocolate.

At 8 years old, I suggest this is a fraction too young. I have a few more of these, and will leave them a while. This bodes well for my 90s vintages still in the cellar.

Cheers

Allan

Allan,

Thanks for the note, although I'm worried about your comment on looking forward to your stash from the nineties.

I don't have much faith in the 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 and have had indifferent bottles of the 1990 and 1998 recently, so I'm hoping you have heaps of the 1991?

Seriously, I don't think Wynns had much of a "run" with their Black Label in the 90's, apart from the great duo from 1990 & 1991 and to a lesser extent, both the 1998 and 1999. Since getting a green light from their corporate masters (circa 2002, IIRC), Sue Hodder and Allan Jenkins have done a great job, firstly, by righting their vineyards and, secondly, by displaying a more sensitive hand in the winemaking processes. The 2004 was an outstanding wine in my book (I bought quite a lot at the ridiculously low pricing of 15 bucks a bottle); the 2005, much firmer and the proverbial ugly duckling at release (bitterly tannic to me) although ultimately may be the best "stayer" of the decade (bought half a case at 18 dollars each); I skipped buying the 2006, although it wasn't too bad when I tried it; the 2007 vintage, carte blanche is off my radar and I firmly believe the 2008 and 2009 are both exemplary reds with excellent cellaring prospects. I'm also quite chuffed Wynn's also showed the temerity to release quite a few individual parcels from some of their prized vineyards over recent years. Although you wonder whether too much of this might somehow dilute the overall quality of the Black Label, I'm confident Sue and Allan would have this under control. The few I've had a glance at over the last few years looked very smart indeed.

Things are looking a whole lot better at Wynns these days.

David, interesting, the most represented wines in my cellar.
I was at a Tasting Australia Coonawarra master class last week or so ago comparing the 08 and 09 vintages, and was obviously looking forward to the 2 BL's from WCE.

I would have to say from my own perspective, and I stress that, and feel well informed from drinking these wines from over 5 decades...that both these two vintages were a massive dissappointment.
I know there is a thread going on over at Bert's place re reduction of wines under screw cap. My palate is average at best...but it knows what it likes.
However, there was precious little fruit on the nose, both were so closed with an hours plus breathing in the glass, there was none of that fresh berry, mint, cassis, cigar box etc etc.
On the palate a degree of hotness, pulls up sharp and not much evidence of those fine grained mouth coating silky tannins that BL is famous for.

I have 2 dozen of the 08 and 1 dozen of the 09, will sit and wait and hope they bloom, which past experience tells me now, will be the case, but both wines IMHO are in a horrible place right now.
Of the wines presented on the day, Majella (particularly the 09) and both the 08 and 09 Lindermans St George were the standouts.

Cheers Craig.

Hi Craig, David and Allan

Likewise I have about 5 dozen WCE from many years in my cellar and I agree that there were some years in the 90's that they lost some of their charm. However saying that, the 1990 was a bloody good wine that I still occasionally drink and enjoy and the 1991 was my WOTY a year or two back and am still looking forward to drinking another yet. The 2001, 2002, and 2003 are all ready to drink now and are lovely bottles and I reckon have another 10 years in them. The 2004, 2006 and 2008 were stunning on release but some bottles are going thru some sort of hiatus and don't always come good quickly but I'm confident they will improve in a few years - in my experience good wines often have that dumb period before reimerging into the light as it were. I'll be really pissed if its reduction and they stay dumb....
Craig, maybe try 6 or 8 hours breathing and see if they come good.

Janis Robinson gaves the 2006 the thumbs up last year and said it was one of her favourite wines.

cheers

Luke

I tried my last 2008 in September last year and it had plenty going on in all departments - plenty of quality fruit, no faults, no dumbness, plenty of length and terrific balance - same result as the previous times I tried it. A most impressive wine worthy of a score in the low nineties - and not a JH low ninety! I tried the 2009 at a store tasting earlier this year and it was perfectly sound, not enough of a chance to fully test it over a long period of time but a postive tick from me. I wonder what is going with the bottles others are having problems with?

Thanks Luke and David,
I am confident that both 08 and 08 BL will blossom and eventually bloom to be really great cabs.
The interesting thing, the 08 and 09 white label shiraz for the princely sum of $9 are cracker reds, so full of flavour, agreed not as complex as the cabs, but really deliver for the coin.

I will bung a bottle of each in the decanter and give them heaps of breathing...then i will let the missus have her say, her palate is so much better with mine.

Its ironic really, I am not suggesting under stelvin that the wines are really reduced, don't have enough experience to comment, but at least with cork when you get the wet dog and wet carboard smell, you know its not good.

If I am still not convinced, i will leave them for 10 years and have another look then.

Cheers Craig.

Wynns have released many upmarket Coonawarra cabs and blends in recent years and there is still the same amount of quality fruit in the vinyard so I'm wondering if the black label may not be getting the fruit if previously enjoyed. Having said that the vineyard inprovements under Sue Hodder may have given rise to an overall improvement that has enabled more quality wines to be made.

Anyone thoughts?

Carl

dlo wrote:I tried my last 2008 in September last year and it had plenty going on in all departments - plenty of quality fruit, no faults, no dumbness, plenty of length and terrific balance - same result as the previous times I tried it. A most impressive wine worthy of a score in the low nineties - and not a JH low ninety! I tried the 2009 at a store tasting earlier this year and it was perfectly sound, not enough of a chance to fully test it over a long period of time but a postive tick from me. I wonder what is going with the bottles others are having problems with?

Opened a 2008 WCE BL and gave it 4 hours of decant time - seems to be fine and no sign of reduction. A massive wine that will still be drinking wonderfully in about 10 years.

OT but do we really need to abbreviate Wynns to WCE? Yes their full name is Wynns Coonawarra Estate but surely Wynns is good enough. We have enough TLA's in the world.

AndrewCowley wrote:OT but do we really need to abbreviate Wynns to WCE? Yes their full name is Wynns Coonawarra Estate but surely Wynns is good enough. We have enough TLA's in the world.

Just joking about.

I have Johnson's Block from the same year and this thread has me wondering how they are traveling.

Took a 1998 Wynn's Black Label Cabernet (bought at release and kept in my cellar) away with me last week on a jazz trip to Victoria. After 7 hours car travel the first day, I stood the wine up for over 24 hours, removed the cork at 7pm the next night and drank half a bottle over 5 hours. It was almost very good in parts, would score something just under 85 points .... but, surely, it should have been much better than that, vintage and maker considered, don't you reckon? It was a bit like some of my 1990's that were, for some strange reason, weedy and bitter .... just lacking. I tried another glass last night - the wine was still greenish and weedy but also showing signs of degradation and oxidation .... lucky to get 70 from me. Very annoying.

phillisc wrote:

AndrewCowley wrote:We have enough TLA's in the world.

TLA=Three-letter-acronym...

Think for some reason the 98 Wyyns is around about at peak.
I guess there's a reason they renovated the vineyards.
Leave (or drink soon) the 99-02...?
GG

Still enjoying my '96s although have had bad cork taint in some.
Mike.

Dio, it might be worth checking your cellaring conditions? If it has nothing to do with that.. i might suggest your wine is sleeping?

I go with WCE - some of us still have the old Wynns Oven Valley in our cellars

Mike Hawkins wrote:I go with WCE - some of us still have the old Wynns Oven Valley in our cellars

Too right Mike, I remember JH in the Australian ,some 15+ years ago in his column writing about OV's going back to the 70's.
I remember well when JH reviewed the 1990, it was a buying frenzy, at $4pb. I got 5 dozen. Just think if you could do that now with a comparable product, well sadly you can't.. I still have nearly 2 cases left, had one last year absolutely fantastic, I think it has another 10-15 in it. I think JH stated in his little book at the time drink to 2025, for a $4 red!!!!amazing.

Cheers Craig.

Mike Hawkins wrote:I go with WCE - some of us still have the old Wynns Oven Valley in our cellars

Does that mean we should refer to the latter as WOV?

Wynns have discontinued the the Oven Valley wine so there should be no confusion at all when refering to recent vintages. In addition it was called a 'Burgundy' so that sets it apart from anything made by Wynns in the Coonawarra.

Cheers...........................Mahmoud.