The Auswine Forum

Without naming the wine or the price (out of deference to AWC), I was caught in the CBD without a bottle I wanted for tonight, and looked online at a few of the retailers who are in the city (not that many, actually).

I found a reasonable (but not brilliant) single-bottle price at Vintage Cellars. I went to the shop, and it was significantly more. I was told that not only do Vintage Cellars not price match ("First Choice do that"), but they do not even match their own online prices!

I really resent handing anything over to them at all, they just want to squeeze the independents out, using this pretence of competition between numerous brands which are really part of a rather brutal duopoly.

It really makes me cross.

indeed, so cross you posted the same thing 3 times....

Amen brother Orpheus.

The supermarket sales and marketing habits are so bone-headed - from full page ads shifting cheap booze on payday, right through to the idiotic Vintage Cellars price regime - way over the RRP, so they can reduce back to RRP.

Screw them totally - there are so many great on-line options now - Australian Wine Centre just one of them - and a growing band of interested, passionate bricks and mortar retailers. I flat out will not buy from a supermarket-owned chain. It just feel so good not to!

Vintage Cellars is the biggest rip off of all liquor outlets. What they do with RRP's is bordering on illegal. With their so called 30% off on dozen buys, they are still more expensive than almost every liquor outlet in the land. They say a fool and his money are easily parted. That is the fact that Vintage Cellars work on. They don't get a cent of my money.

Ian

ticklenow1 wrote:Vintage Cellars is the biggest rip off of all liquor outlets. What they do with RRP's is bordering on illegal. With their so called 30% off on dozen buys, they are still more expensive than almost every liquor outlet in the land. They say a fool and his money are easily parted. That is the fact that Vintage Cellars work on. They don't get a cent of my money.

Ian

What I found was that their single bottle price was ludicrously expensive and only after their 30% dozen discount (which has now been reduced to 20%) do their prices appear reasonably competitive.

It leads me to a conundrum I have recently faced - I have recently bought some champagne for a number of occasions and, whilst I have wanted to support more independent retailers, have found the difference between these prices and the supermarket owned chains is 30% or more. The question then is: to what extent do you support the local, independant retailer (who may or may not provide a decent service) compared to supporting your back pocket?

I must admit the temptation for "bulk" generic stuff which is available everywhere e.g. wynns, penfolds, generic champagne, & the like where carried by the barn liquor outlets is where it gets tempting. I havent shopped at VC for years because of their pricing (prices go up, then the specials take them down.. back to where they should have been anyway!).

I prefer to expand my drinking by buying from the independents or from wineries or at auction by buying stuff that the big chains dont carry or regard as "premium"/back vintage which often == a big price premium and hence the cost difference if any of buying elsewhere is somewhat moot anyway.

sjw_11 wrote:
I prefer to expand my drinking by buying from the independents or from wineries or at auction by buying stuff that the big chains dont carry or regard as "premium"/back vintage which often == a big price premium and hence the cost difference if any of buying elsewhere is somewhat moot anyway.

I agree!

Admittedly i was once a supporter of cheap liquor 'barns'.......you only need to see the history of my posts on this forum to see this fact.

Having realised they are only a marketing gimmik to get people into the stores and sell bulk wine, it was apparent very quickly they cannot get alot of the wines i wished to try. This is mainly due to them being either cellar door only release, or the producer is so small, they cant get them (thinking moores hill, david franz, vinteloper etc)

Even some of the big produces dont give them their entire range (specifically was looking for Peter Lehmann 1885 shiraz and Futures Shiraz) to these 'barns'

So where did that leave/lead me....well it forced me to either contact the wineries directly, search on-line retailers (auswine is one!) and go to my local independent wine merchant....nicks in this case.

All in all, I honestly haven't been to a supermarket chained store in months......and my cellar is all the better for it.

It isn't just liquor where this is a problem..but many industries..

For some reason, the government allows companies to operate in basically a oligopoly. They allow these companies to own and market other companies to give the Australian public the illusion that there is competition when, in fact, there is not.

Agree with all posts on the subject, VCs operate like those tacky jewellery chains, the one's who junk mail is choking your letter box as we speak.
I had a mate who worked in one of these very shops, and those little gold bands with the pissy lowest possible grade of diamonds in them are marked up somewhere between 800-1000%!!!! So when a ring is reduced from $1000 to $500, they are still making 4-500%.
This applies to VCs, Metala white label, one of my faves and cellars quite well, $21:35c, at a small chain in Adelaide $9:70c ( 50+% difference)
Still in Adelaide we are absolutely hammered by the independents, who the hell pays $31 for Wynns BL??

However, I have noticed on a couple of occasions, (and Gavin, I won't name them because it is improper to do so on your forum) that an independent in the CBD drops 10-20% off the single bottle price if he knows you, likes the look of you, or thinks that the type of wine that you have brought indicates that you are a regular buyer. So I asked, and his response was "see it worked, you were in here last week, so thanks for your support, and another 10-20% off.

What I don't get Moet NV hammered here at DMs on the weekend, 1C match it for 3 days but then put out their own price at $5 pb more and i hear a staffer say that we have not shifted much of that in the last 2 days.
The chains are great for beer, but yes a number of wineries that i buy from every year have never had one bottle of their product at these 2....and never will.

Cheers Craig.

i used to work in vintage cellars and agree the pricing is very expensive their mark up on wine is 37% to 50% + on cost price. it was really annoying not being able to price match and it irritated so many customers. think they should be able to price match at least its sale and not customer going to dans instead. i thought their wine club was pretty good 25 dollars you can get off any product when u collected 500points.

i however cant complain i did well when i worked their bought allot wine their staff discount was good 30% off a bottle wine + 5% staff discount card and 50% +5% of on their own labels etc. but i wouldn't shop their now prices are awful to normal customer.

phillisc wrote:
What I don't get Moet NV hammered here at DMs on the weekend, 1C match it for 3 days but then put out their own price at $5 pb more and i hear a staffer say that we have not shifted much of that in the last 2 days.
The chains are great for beer, but yes a number of wineries that i buy from every year have never had one bottle of their product at these 2....and never will.

Cheers Craig.

That's the thing. With commoditised products like Moët, Mumm, etc. the independents can't compete. Went to buy 2 x Mumm for gifts. Online independent had it at $59 pb, DM at $45 and bricks and mortar independent at $70. For a bottle that can be found anywhere, I can't see why I would want to pay $14 to $25 more just to support the independents. The online one has a great selection of stuff. The local one has back vintages but no customer service.

reschsmooth wrote:It leads me to a conundrum I have recently faced - I have recently bought some champagne for a number of occasions and, whilst I have wanted to support more independent retailers, have found the difference between these prices and the supermarket owned chains is 30% or more. The question then is: to what extent do you support the local, independant retailer (who may or may not provide a decent service) compared to supporting your back pocket?

I've just done a run-through of per-Christmas availability and prices for a sizeable range of Champagne, Aus Sparkling Reds and Whites for my members and found that in most cases the best prices were at the independent e-tailers, sometimes by a considerable margin and that the chain responses, if any, are very temporary. And that's after freight where the prices are not freight-inclusive.

reschsmooth wrote:

phillisc wrote:
What I don't get Moet NV hammered here at DMs on the weekend, 1C match it for 3 days but then put out their own price at $5 pb more and i hear a staffer say that we have not shifted much of that in the last 2 days.
The chains are great for beer, but yes a number of wineries that i buy from every year have never had one bottle of their product at these 2....and never will.

Cheers Craig.

That's the thing. With commoditised products like Moët, Mumm, etc. the independents can't compete. Went to buy 2 x Mumm for gifts. Online independent had it at $59 pb, DM at $45 and bricks and mortar independent at $70. For a bottle that can be found anywhere, I can't see why I would want to pay $14 to $25 more just to support the independents. The online one has a great selection of stuff. The local one has back vintages but no customer service.

I can't see why the independents would want to compete with the chains for the commoditised lines. I'm happy to drink a Moet (which I think is the VB of champagne) if it's being poured for me but there is far more interesting and better value champagne to be had from the independents. And that applies to all their lines from still wines to spirits. The only area where the chains have a competitive advantage is beer and, as I probably only go through a case every two months, I don't consider myself a traitor to the cause when I buy these from Uncle Dan's or FC. I've actually met some decent people who know care about their wines and customers at the chains so I'm not prepared to demonise that part of the industry. Fact remains though that the only long term relationships I've ever established with wine people have been with the independents and wineries themselves and that's where virtually all of my business goes.

Cheers, Peter

reschsmooth wrote:

phillisc wrote:
What I don't get Moet NV hammered here at DMs on the weekend, 1C match it for 3 days but then put out their own price at $5 pb more and i hear a staffer say that we have not shifted much of that in the last 2 days.
The chains are great for beer, but yes a number of wineries that i buy from every year have never had one bottle of their product at these 2....and never will.

Cheers Craig.

That's the thing. With commoditised products like Moët, Mumm, etc. the independents can't compete. Went to buy 2 x Mumm for gifts. Online independent had it at $59 pb, DM at $45 and bricks and mortar independent at $70. For a bottle that can be found anywhere, I can't see why I would want to pay $14 to $25 more just to support the independents. The online one has a great selection of stuff. The local one has back vintages but no customer service.

You may not be looking at the right independents, there are three offering Mumm NV under $50 and as low as $44.17 + reasonable freight or $44.99 freight inclusive for orders over $200. The chains are cheaper this week on Moet NV, Taittinger NV by a couple of dollars, Dom Perignon 2002 by a dollar, but were not last week.
Jacquesson Cuvee 734? $77.89 at DM, $65 at a couple of independents. Laurent Perrier Brut LP NV? $61.75 at DM, $50-$55 at a number of independents. Louis Roederer NV? DM $66.49 vs $59-$60 at some independents. Gosset Brut Excellence NV? DM $80.75, $60-$65 at a couple of independents.

Red Bigot wrote:
You may not be looking at the right independents, there are three offering Mumm NV under $50 and as low as $44.17 + reasonable freight or $44.99 freight inclusive for orders over $200. The chains are cheaper this week on Moet NV, Taittinger NV by a couple of dollars, Dom Perignon 2002 by a dollar, but were not last week.
Jacquesson Cuvee 734? $77.89 at DM, $65 at a couple of independents. Laurent Perrier Brut LP NV? $61.75 at DM, $50-$55 at a number of independents. Louis Roederer NV? DM $66.49 vs $59-$60 at some independents. Gosset Brut Excellence NV? DM $80.75, $60-$65 at a couple of independents.

Undoubtedly, but given the independents that are local to me and the one online independent that I use, the savings by going to the supermarket chains were in the order of 20-30%. Plus my local independents do not offer great service.

Same here - when I walk into (many) of the independent stores I am ignored most of the time (they don't even acknowledge I am there), but when I walk into my local Dan Murphy's the 'fine wine' staff greet me on a first name basis. So while I am all for supporting independents over the big boys, I have no problems buying commodity wines from Dan's and the rest straight from the winery/online/auction

I feel the same way.
My local DM here in Brisbane have never let me down as far as sourcing / and or follow up. Just a week ago i contacted a local PP that has recently opened. I thought i would give him a go to support the small guy.
A week later i still have not heard from him regarding a particular wine.
So i guess i will take the trip up the road and do the DM thing again!!

ross

hungus wrote:Same here - when I walk into (many) of the independent stores I am ignored most of the time (they don't even acknowledge I am there), but when I walk into my local Dan Murphy's the 'fine wine' staff greet me on a first name basis. So while I am all for supporting independents over the big boys, I have no problems buying commodity wines from Dan's and the rest straight from the winery/online/auction

And fair enough too. I'm not advocating some sort of financial fatwa against the chains. Everyone out there is offering a service and if your experience is that the independents you've been dealing with aren't up to it, you go where you get value for your money. It's the same with wineries. I'm happy when I find small wineries that produce consistently good products for their asking prices but I'm just as happy to buy from the big boys/girls when they offer value for money. There are heaps of small wineries producing vin ordinaire and vin tres ordinaire - often at prices vastly disconnected from the quality of the product - and they, like everyone else, just have to live and die in the real commercial world. I'm fortunate in having had long term excellent service by one particular independent and I'll continue to support that business.

Cheers, Peter

reschsmooth wrote:

Red Bigot wrote:
You may not be looking at the right independents, there are three offering Mumm NV under $50 and as low as $44.17 + reasonable freight or $44.99 freight inclusive for orders over $200. The chains are cheaper this week on Moet NV, Taittinger NV by a couple of dollars, Dom Perignon 2002 by a dollar, but were not last week.
Jacquesson Cuvee 734? $77.89 at DM, $65 at a couple of independents. Laurent Perrier Brut LP NV? $61.75 at DM, $50-$55 at a number of independents. Louis Roederer NV? DM $66.49 vs $59-$60 at some independents. Gosset Brut Excellence NV? DM $80.75, $60-$65 at a couple of independents.

Undoubtedly, but given the independents that are local to me and the one online independent that I use, the savings by going to the supermarket chains were in the order of 20-30%. Plus my local independents do not offer great service.

There are at least 20 online wine e-tailers (out of 200+) that are (mostly) honest, reliable, offer good service and good prices (yes, you can have it all). But no one of them has all the best deals. Local bricks'n'mortar only independents will either have to find a viable niche or they will be gone soon. It's not too difficult to adjust buying habits to take advantage of the best deals and support the independents at the same time.

Postscript: Some recent one-off non-advertised deals from small merchants include Wolf Blass Black Label 2006 and Hewitson Mad Hatter Shiraz 2009 at close to half the price anywhere else, Phi Yarra Pinot Noir 2008 @ under $30 delivered.