The Auswine Forum

Well... I should have expected it. The fridge I was concerned about here: http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10857 has now been giving me problems.

About mid Feb I noticed it was no longer able to hold the set temperature. The measured temp at various points within the unit (using a digital hygro-thermometer and also a regular thermometer) was between 1 and 2 degrees higher than the set temp of 12 degrees. I kept an eye on the deviation, to make sure it wasn't to do with the weather, however the actual temperature remained consistently above the set value. I tried setting the unit to other temps (between 10 and 14) however the actual temp still remained consistently around 2 degrees above that.

So... as the unit was only 1 year old and in warranty, I hopped onto the Andico website (the sales / service company responsible for Liebherr fridges) and lodged a service request. And that's when the fun started.

Andico started by ignoring my service request. When I chased it up a week later, I was told it got "lost" and would now be resubmitted. They finally sent a tech out almost 2 weeks after I submitted the issue, and despite confirming that the fridge's sensor was reading the same higher temperature as my thermometer, the only advice was to replace the filter. After I rang, ordered, waited, then installed the filter... surprise, surprise! The temperature deviation was still present.

What followed has possibly been the worst example of customer service I have ever experienced.

My calls and emails regarding the persistent problem were ignored by the local distributor (JH Wilberforce). When I finally got hold of someone, they explained they had no visibility (or should that be interest?) in service issues, despite earlier organising the tech to attend, and referred me to the Andico service department. Andico then told me the fridge would have to be taken away to be repaired, and that this process could take anything up to several months, depending upon what was wrong with it. When I asked if a replacement / loan unit was available, I was told they "didn't do that type of thing". I reasonably asked what other customers have done in this situation (having 170+ bottles of wine requiring cellaring in the WA summer), and was told people have just lived with it, or "used eskys".

Not considering this an acceptable answer, I attempted to escalate the issue, however despite being promised several times that someone from Andico service would call me about it, I did not hear a single thing from them.

So... here I am, 2 months after the fridge first started playing up, still without a resolution. I finally gave up on Andico even being civil and returning my calls, so I have moved my wine into a commercial storage facility (at my cost) and am awaiting pickup of the fridge. God only knows how long it will take for them to repair, or even once it is repaired, if the unit will only last another 12 months.

As people say... products are only as good as the support and service behind them. In this case, I wish I had purchased any other fridge on the market, so I could have avoided dealing with Andico.
Despite Liebherr supposedly being a "premium brand", Andico's service and support is certainly not.

To all potential wine fridge / cellar buyers out there.... DO NOT buy Liebherr!

If you want it at 12C why not just set it to 10C?

My Vintecs are never exactly on the right temp all the time, 1-3C out isn't going to bother me or the wine.

Sounds like pretty crap customer service, but on the other hand I would expect most fridges, air-cons, freezers whatever to be out by at least a few degrees from what the temp is set to?

A genuine question for anyone - Is it unreasonable for a wine fridge to return an actual temp a couple of degrees higher than what it is set to?

Yes, that is seriously crap service, but I think the facts are that the way fridges work means the dialed-in temperature is only a general indication. Of course with a 'so-called premium unit' like the Liebherr, I would expect fairly good accuracy, but the pictures we saw back then showed us how poor their manufacturing standards are, at least on the outside. I expect leon lost faith in the brand way back then, and then after seeing the temp inaccuracy, decided to get it looked it while the (substandard one year) warranty was still valid.

I do however agree that 2 degrees over would not be a cause for concern, as long as the temp was stable, and the humidity was acceptable. Temps will vary based on ambient conditions, ventilation around the unit, how full the unit is and of course electric and electronic tolerances of each unit.

So how is it actually 'giving you problems leon?' As dave said, if you want 12, dial in 10 and if it stays at 12, I'd be happy personally. Never a perfect world, but now that you've gone to such lengths, prob no harm in getting them to pick it up and check it out. I would have to be brutally honest with you and say that they are likely rolling their eyes at your fussiness.

Cheers
Tim

Tim,

Oh I 100% agree... I am being fussy. And I suspected they thought as much when I got the extremely dismissive and unprofessional responsive from Andico.
However, they are representing a premium brand, which is sold at a premium price, so I think it's reasonable enough to expect premium performance and service.
If Andico want to run their business that way, it's fine. There is nothing stopping them. But I guess the aim of my post is for folks out there like me (i.e. a little fussy ), don't rely on the Liebherr brand name.

As a background... before Feb this year, the unit had never been more than 0.3 of a degree off the set temperature. Even throughout all of last summer (which in Perth was pretty hot). Nothing had changed in terms of quantity of wine stored, position in the room or ventilation that could have caused the unit to now have a deviation of several degrees (therefore I figure it's a failure of some component).

I agree that if the unit had always had such a deviation, I wouldn't have been worried (several friends have small Vintecs, which are regularly several degrees out, and they are quite happy with them). However as there seemed to be a sudden change in the behaviour, I think it's worth getting fixed.

OK, fair enough, for it to be so accurate and then start to drift up is possibly a sign of some kind of issue, and you'd hate for it to get worse and then be out of warranty. My advice is to keep at them (within reason) while they have it, and I hate to say it, but don't be too nice! I was too nice with the repairer for my air con, and it took months, as soon as I finally snapped and got a bit grumpy with the lady, it was replaced the following day!!! It is SO annoying that this is the way of things, but it's human nature I suppose.... "oh get that nasty guy off my back quickly" vs "oh he's really nice, that can wait until next week". Firm and professional, not casual and nice is now my approach to such matters.

Good luck and let us know how the saga progresses. You may even want to find some more senior Liebherr people and let them know the situation with your feeling about the photos of the back and then the 3rd party service aspect now putting off all fellow wine enthusiasts via your posts. I certainly won't buy one.

Cheers
Tim

A mate of mine had one a couple of years ago and had nothing but problems with it. He ended up getting rid of it and buying another brand (after too much frustration). I have a 125 bottle Liebherr and I only put quaffers in it so I don't have to keep going into my cellar. It was bought second hand about 4 years ago and has never missed a beat. It really is luck of the draw, but the service response from Liebherr in your case is disgraceful. This is the sort of thing that is starting to set companies apart. I really take notice of good relationships that companies have with their clients and this comes into the equation when I make a big purchase. Even if one product costs slightly more, I will buy it over another if the company has a good warranty and renowned customer service. Until people start boycotting these rogue companies, they will never learn.

Just for the record, don't replace it with a Kitchener CT.
The bottom of my fridge sits on ten degrees to keep the top of the fridge at twenty. (22 on a hot day).

Only the bottom half of the fridge stays cool and the doors don't seal properly. (The bloke in the factory said he checked every one in their factory and they were all the same when i asked to have it replaced. They gave me $500 off, this was before the temperature problem came up).

xsorxpire wrote:Just for the record, don't replace it with a Kitchener CT.
The bottom of my fridge sits on ten degrees to keep the top of the fridge at twenty. (22 on a hot day).

Only the bottom half of the fridge stays cool and the doors don't seal properly. (The bloke in the factory said he checked every one in their factory and they were all the same when i asked to have it replaced. They gave me $500 off, this was before the temperature problem came up).

Blimey, that makes the problem with the Liebherr look like gold. I have a Euroart and a Cybercool and they both keep all areas of the fridge both top and bottom within 2 deg of the set temp. In regard to Andico, I have some Andi appliances and the internal oven glass (within warranty) has literally exploded twice (wrecked a lovely rib eye on the bone btw) with the result of their contracted repairer coming out to fix within 14 days. Maybe the fridges pose a more difficult problem.