The Auswine Forum

Hi all,

Just new here, but thought I'd share a project that I've been doing for a couple of years now. I've got a bunch of nieces and a nephew on my siblings side, 6 in all, born between 2002 and 2008. Which means they'll turn 21 between 2023 and 2029. "So," I thought to myself, "why don't you start collecting wines for them now, so that they'll have an interesting bunch of things to drink on special occasions when they’re in their early 20's?" So I did.

They're all being stored at a Guardian Wine Storage place, which is fairly cheap, and is pretty much perfect for conditions. My limitations were that I wasn't going to spend more than $600 per case, but it's actually ended up being much cheaper than that so far. Even if you add in the storage costs, it's still pretty good value. Of course, I'm looking for a house with a dedicated wine cellar, but until then...

So, what've I got in there so far?
Summerfield 2005 Cabernet Sauvignon (Pyrenees, Vic)
I tracked this down about 3 years ago via a wine wholesaler run by three girls. After some 'sweet-talking' they allowed me to buy a case from them (which was lucky as it wasn't available anywhere else). Note that this is the 'standard', not the Reserve release - we'll see how well I picked later on. Robert Parker said: "A barrel sample of the 2005 Cabernet Sauvignon was superb. It boasts an opaque blue/purple hue along with notes of blackberries, white flowers, cedar, and toasty new oak. Beautiful purity, great texture, and fabulous length should result in an impressive wine."
Warrabilla 2006 Parola's Limited Release Durif (Rutherglen, Vic)
I got this one fairly easily from Nick's Wine Merchants, but the guy in the Armadale store wouldn't let me take it until he had called up Andrew Smith and asked him if it would cellar well over the next 20 years. The winemakers reply was to the effect that it wouldn't "pass on" before any of the three people currently discussing it. I take that as his confidence in the vintage.
Bobtail Ridge 2007 Shiraz (Frankland River, WA)
By the time I got to this wine, it wasn't available anywhere else, and the winery had limited it to 6 bottles per customer. I persuaded them that it was, in fact, for 6 customers who were currently all under the age of 10, and I was allowed to break the rules. This once! With a screw-cap I think this one's a keeper.
Lethbridge 2009 Dr Nadeson Riesling (Lethbridge, Vic)
Another sold-out vintage. This wine is actually made from grapes from a winery in Portland, the owners of which are the parents of one of my friends from the Telstra days. Maree, from Lethbridge, told me that they had a few bottles left for their own consumption, but that their supplier sold all their stock to Dan Murphy’s. So, I found 11 bottles of the vintage at the Berwick store, and another few bottles left at the Frankston store - but that's it for availability in Victoria. Halliday says "This is made with a deliberate touch of sweetness in Mosel style, the sweetness balanced by awesome drive and acidity; 30 years won't seriously challenge it."
Tyrrell's 2005 Belford Semillon (Hunter, NSW)
Scott Bartlett from Tyrrell's said: "Because it is naturally high in acid, does not undergo maturation in barrel, and is bottled early to maintain its freshness, it has the structure and backbone to last 20 years, as long as air contact is kept to a minimum. By using screw-cap , air contact is practically nil, so the wine will definitely last the distance if kept in good, cool, cellaring conditions, and stored in an upright position (completely opposite to how you store wine under corks)."

No pictures of the Semillon, as that only went in very recently (last week). I'm going to do family tastings (in blocks of 4 wines) starting in about 2 years time - as I believe that the older generations should benefit from this almost as much as the younger generation.

Interestingly, when I was in contact with Scott from Tyrrell's, he mentioned that: "Screw caps are OK layed down in racks, it's just if you want to minimize any potential problems for very long term cellaring such as this, I would recommend upright storage, as really the only thing that can possibly go wrong with screw caps is if the inner tin foil/saran liner is slightly damaged then leakage is a possibility if the wine is layed down."

I'll keep this updated as I continue - but this thread will be mostly fallow except around vintage time...

Cloth Ears wrote: "Screw caps are OK layed down in racks, it's just if you want to minimize any potential problems for very long term cellaring such as this, I would recommend upright storage, as really the only thing that can possibly go wrong with screw caps is if the inner tin foil/saran liner is slightly damaged then leakage is a possibility if the wine is layed down."

I'll keep this updated as I continue - but this thread will be mostly fallow except around vintage time...

Hi Scott

Surely if wine can leak out, air can leak in? I am keeping my screwcaps lying down. If they leak, I'll drink them. If they don't well, hopefully they'll be okay.

Cheers

Michael

Good point!

New addition.

Brand's Laira 2008 Blockers Cabernet Suavignon (Coonawarra, SA)
Winemaker Peter Weinberg's Notes: Colour Intense deep crimson red. Aroma Vibrant and perfumed displaying varietal fruit aromas of blackcurrant, blackberry and black olive, with vanilla, cedar and spicy notes. Palate Rich and complex displaying juicy sweet dark berry fruits with spicy and toasty flavours from barrel maturation. The wine has a long lingering finish with a fine silky tannin structure.

2008 was a great vintage in Coonawarra so a good addition to the collection. Am enjoing a 1999 Brands Laira vineyards Cabernet right now and will go another few years. The 08 Blockers should also hopefully stay the distance particularly as its under screw cap. May I suggest looking at some Margaret River Cabernet or Merlot and blends. Really good stuff and generally a step up on Coonawarra IMO. Anything from 05 07 or 08 is good. The good stuff should definitely go the distance and then some.

Carl

What's missing from all this is the tried and true cellaring wines. It's all well and good that some wines are difficult to get and sold out but that guarantees nothing. Tyrrell's Belford is the only selection that appeals to me.

I know it's not fashionable but what about Penfold's (even their Koonunga Hill Shiraz/Cab will go the distance), some Tahbilks (Cabernet and Marsanne), Wynn's Black Label Cabernet, some Clare Valley riesling, Australian port from Stanton & Killeen, etc. You seem to be placing your trust in wines that have no record.

Sorry, buts that's just my opinion.........................Mahmoud

Out of that lot, I don't know why, but I think the Summerfield may not go the distance. The Lethbridge is supposed to be some pretty impressive fruit going in to that wine, and with that little bit of sugar, and I assume a screwcap closure, it should make it. Warrabilla are known for making very big wines, so I suspect that'll make it through. The winemaker would be the one to know which ones will, and which ones won't, and he appears to have given it his thumbs up.
Bobtail ridge I have no idea about.
Tyrrell's as stated earlier could likely go the distance also.
The Voyager Estate "Girt By Sea" Cab Merlot was pretty good around those vintages and one or two might go the distance.
There's some good riesling vintages in there: Seppelt Drumborg, Steingarten, Buring Leonay some obvious ones, but I'm sure there'd be plenty of others. May be tougher to source them, though.
A couple of very decent vintages of Seppelt Chalambar Shiraz in that vintage range, too.'04 the one which appears to still be floating around.

Opinions are sought and welcome. These wines will be tasted along the way - I'm think 3 tastings for each wine at regular intervals from vintage to distribution.

The Summerfield wines are mostly big reds with 10-20 years cellaring quite easily achievable. And being under screw-cap there should be no problem with any cork.
Lethbridge (and the Portland grapes) remind me of a couple of other Reislings (Drumborg is one) that have gone the distance. As this is a young winery, you can't always tell - but I'm hopeful.
Tyrrells was something I was looking for anyway, I was just waiting for the 2005.
Bobtail Ridge is a curio that I hope works out. But if it doesn't, then Uncle will be drinking the lot (which won't upset me).
Warrabilla might actually not be ready to drink by 2030 (but I doubt that even as I type:)).
And, I trusted the 2008 Vintage, along with the taste of the wine, to give the Blockers a better than even chance to make the distance.

I've allowed for a possible failure of 6 wines - intending to have at least 24 bottles ready for each nephew/niece. If there's 30, then well & good.

Tahbilk Marsanne was the plan for a vintage in the next couple of years. My folks enjoy going there, so I might see what they think of a red as well.
Penfolds, I was thinking of a 128 Shiraz and a 138 GSM (in about 5 years and 10 years respectively).
Rieslings, I was looking at the King Valley one from Brown Brothers in a few years (the current one might make it, but better to be a little safe). And also a Buring one at some stage. The Drumborg is very similar to the Lethbridge, but I might see about the Steingarten.
I've yet to pick a Pinot. And I would also like a couple of sparklings - both red and white. The Original Shiraz from Seppelt generally goes 15-20 years, and there's a couple of others. But I don't think there's many white sparklings under cork that do very well.
And I tried the new Nero D'Avola that Brown Brothers has been experimenting with. Not a 20 year wine, but would well improve for 10 - so I'm hoping they are still producing in the middle of this decade.
And I don't have any cabernets yet.

Mahmoud - port is one think I hadn't really thought of. I might have a look at a vintage port or two. Most of the ones that my father collected were not ready for at least 20 years, so I've always dismissed them. But they would probably be ready to sip on before that.

I don't know about the Warrabilla. I had some 2004 last year and it was very well advanced, starting to lose the fruit..

Mahmoud Ali wrote:What's missing from all this is the tried and true cellaring wines. It's all well and good that some wines are difficult to get and sold out but that guarantees nothing. Tyrrell's Belford is the only selection that appeals to me....You seem to be placing your trust in wines that have no record.

I agree with Mahmoud's comments. From your original comments, you seem to be equating rarity with cellarability. I'd focus on wines that have a long track record of aging 20+ years. Buying a mixed case of Tahbilk Marsanne from ther winery would be a great and cheap option, as would the Wynn's Black Label suggestion. Maybe buy a mixed case of Wynn's wines (e.g., Black Label and John Riddoch) to keep to your $600/case limit. The Penfold's suggestion is good too: a mixed case or two (e.g., St Henri's) might be great for you and the young ones. I know it's expensive there, but German riesling is another solid option. Some kabinetts can last that long, depending on the producer and vintage, but spatlese would be a better (i.e., safer) option. 2009 or 2010 (but be careful with the latter vintage) would both be good possibilities.

But it's great you are going to try wines along the way, and the idea of buying wines for your nephews/nieces is such an amazing thing to do - you're definitely going to be a favourite uncle!

Why don't you try and source some Magnums. This is what I am doing for my young fellas birth year (2009). They age better and are more of a novelty. They are harder to get but worth the effort.

Wynn's Black Label or John Riddoch are pretty much guaranteed to go the distance as are several of the better Coonawarra Cabernets like Balnaves or Majella etc. Penfolds Bin 389 would be a good choice as well. Good Hunter Semillon's are worth a look as well.

If you just take punt's on wines with no track record, you may be disappointed in 18 or 21 years time. If you look back through older posts you will see a bit of a pattern with wines that age really well. What Mahmoud said is spot on.

I agree with Mahmoud.

Rare doesnt always mean cellerable
Big can mean cellarable but not always - I would be cautious of the Summerfields as well. Smithy lurks here, he may chime in on the Warrabilla's.
Balanced is more likely to lead to cellarability.

You mention you're new at this. Against that background I agree wit hother comments, go for tried and tested cellaring wines. In the $600/case range, Penfolds Bin 389, Wynns Black Label and John Riddoch, Yalumba Signature. Perhaps Balnaves and Majella Cabernets. For white wines - Leo Buring Leonay Riesling, Tyrrells semillons. Hardys or Reynella Vintage ports if you can find them.

There are a lot more options as 20 year cellaring propositions at higher prices,

cheers

Andrew

Oh - agreed on German riesling, I had an 18 year old Spatlese on Friday night that was at its peak. They can go forever. 2009 is a good vintage to buy, 2010 might be as well. Willi Schaefer, Fritz Haag, Schloss Lieser, Rienhold Haart might fit your bill - Donnhoff, JJ Prum and Egon Muller for more money.

Wizz wrote:I agree with Mahmoud.

Rare doesnt always mean cellerable
Big can mean cellarable but not always - I would be cautious of the Summerfields as well. Smithy lurks here, he may chime in on the Warrabilla's.
Balanced is more likely to lead to cellarability.

You mention you're new at this. Against that background I agree wit hother comments, go for tried and tested cellaring wines. In the $600/case range, Penfolds Bin 389, Wynns Black Label and John Riddoch, Yalumba Signature. Perhaps Balnaves and Majella Cabernets. For white wines - Leo Buring Leonay Riesling, Tyrrells semillons. Hardys or Reynella Vintage ports if you can find them.

There are a lot more options as 20 year cellaring propositions at higher prices,

cheers

Andrew

Agree, and sing along with the chorus here. Some of these wines may well go the distance but I would be looking to increase the margin for error, and purchase some more renowned long term wines. Certainly magnum and other large format reds and good Aussie VP are good options.

Also I would ask the question do you want wines that will simply last the distance, or look a deal better for their 18/21 years in bottle. I'd be hunting for some Wendouree, Tahbilk 1860, 389, St Henri, Black Label etc.

All the best, look forward to putting a stash of 2010 reds away for junior when they start hitting the market.

Another one in the cellar, a dozen Barossa Valley Estate 2006 Ebenezer Shiraz.

Pulled from the cellar for tasting (sometime on the next month or so - along with parents and grandparents) were a bottle each of the Summerfield C/S, Warrabilla Durif, Tyrrells Semillon and one of the Ebenezers didn't make the trip.

Hi Andrew, I was new to the forum, not new to cellaring. Myself and my father have been cellaring wines in his cellar (which we constructed back in the 80's) and the previous one (which we built in the mid-70s). Many of the wines were Mclaren Vale sourced, as the 70s cellar was located in Willunga, and we were always going back there after we came to Melbourne. We also knew a lot of the wine people, due to a history at Scotch College over there. So I've had quite a bit of experience in the actual cellering. I must admit that I haven't looked at keeping more than half the case for 14+ years before - we've always gone on the 'taste every two years' principle. But I figure tasting 4 bottles of each at various stages over the period should suffice.

With regards the choices, they're mostly based on taste. Big fruit along with big skin for the reds (so far), a bit of acidity with some sweetness and good green flavour for the Riesling (and I'll admit I haven't tasted the Semillon yet - but that to be changed shortly). They aren't rare, but lazines on my part meant that they were getting scarce by the time I'd chosen them.

Work - the curse of the drinking man!

My bad Jonathan

In that case a belated welcome to the forum...

No problem. Thank you. I will always need/want advice. Sometimes I take it, sometimes I'm just a contrary b***tard...

We had a tasting of some of the collection back in June - and I've copied the notes verbatim. This way I've got a bit of record of what was said (I guess I'm confident this forum will keep going also!) The headings are just what was on the sheet I handed out and the wines were tasted in order: semillon, shiraz, cabernet sauvignon, durif. Interestingly, the discussions after thought that the Belford seemed to be the least likely to last the distance (2023-2029).

Tyrrell's 2005 Belford Semillon
Colour: Light straw; Crystal straw; ; Light straw; Lime Juice Cordial; Good clear colour; Pale yellow; Lemon-green pale; Straw;
Nose: ; Beautiful with a hint of foot odour; ; Crisp, sultana grapey; ; Quite a strong nose; Fresh citrus, gooseberry; Biscuit, lemon, mushroom; ;
Taste: Good blend of sweetness with a balancing tartness; Like white wine, the best I've ever had; Slightly tart, which I like, but this may disappear with time; Light, fresh, "crisp", nice blend of oak. Slightly sweet and sour. Like it; ; Slight spritz. I like it. Quite dry; ; Developed, a bit zingy; ;
Other comments: ; Thanks!; I actually like this now – will it still be good in 20 years?; ; Crisp, light and tasty. I like it very much.; ; ; Not sure where this will go; ; '___' and '________' violently disagree. Order more!

Summerfield 2005 Cabernet Sauvignon
Colour: Deep red – slightly dull; ; ; Dark cherry; Deeper red; clear; Ruby, slightly tawny; ; Ruby red;
Nose:; ; ; Berry, compost, stewed plums, slightly sweet/off; earthy; woody; ; ; Blackberries, fruity;
Taste: Lovely, smooth – not a great finish; Fruity and 'cakey'; ; Plum, berry, smooth tannins, a little tart; Dry, warm, plummy; Heavier, but should keep well; dry; ; Smooth, subtle on the palate;
Other comments: How long will it last?; ; I think this one will be good. Like it now.; Good; I like it a lot; ; ; ; Will age well; Reminds me of the Australian movie

Barossa Valley Estate 2006 Ebenezer Shiraz
Colour: Deep red; ; ; Dark, clings to the side; Deep red; clear; ruby; ruby – still young; Ruby red;
Nose:; Alcoholic; ; Plums, oak; Woody; ; Raspberry, black currant; Tobacco, cedar, blackcurrant, black pepper; ;
Taste: Strong young shiraz – typical. Will develop well; Bright; Raw, not much complexity, fruity; Dark plum, tart oak, forward tannins; Dry, tanniny; Light and easy; oaky; Spice, oak, tobacco; peppery;
Other comments: Very promising – likely to last; This pre-pubescent lass will be a beauty one day; OK with food – can't picture how it will turn out; Nice, think this one will be great in the future; I liked it with my sausage and chop; I like this style; ; Still needs time to develop, soften, open; Very young – needs to age more; Young

Warrabilla 2006 Parola's Limited Release Durif
Colour: Dull red; ; ; Inky purple; Deep red; Deep ruby; ; ; Deep ruby red;
Nose:; Paint stripper and grape; ; Alcohol, blackberry, currant, red plum; ; ; grapes; hot, alcoholic, acetone, prune; Strong, intense;
Taste: Typical Rutherglen – huge flavours; ; Very fruity but a little tart, black curranty; Alcohol, blackberry, currant, red plum; Sweet, pruney; Very alcoholic. Heavy; Sweet, fruity, dried fruit; Cooked plum, prune; Intense, strong, smooth on the palate, leaves a lovely aftertaste;
Other comments: Will last, but what will it be like?; Bold, brash, loud & charismatic. Life of the party; I like this one; Will still be there in 20-30 years. Not sure what the flavour will be. Yet; I love this; I liked them all; ; Huge, hot, sledgehammer – really, truly intense Awesome with the cheese; Excellent with cheese; Restrict distribution to children with my surname

Wizz wrote:Oh - agreed on German riesling, I had an 18 year old Spatlese on Friday night that was at its peak. They can go forever. 2009 is a good vintage to buy, 2010 might be as well. Willi Schaefer, Fritz Haag, Schloss Lieser, Rienhold Haart might fit your bill - Donnhoff, JJ Prum and Egon Muller for more money.

Wow, won't it be fantastic if there was just one distributor who sold all the first group of wines. It would make shopping so much easier

10 years on and no wiser...
I've nearly finished the collection and this year we would have been starting the second rounds of tastings (except that we cannot gather the family together). This is the third boxing of the collection (whites). And there's been a couple of additions to the collection (one more niece, one more nephew). And looking back over the comments from my siblings from previous tastings, the only one that they weren't sure of (so far) has been the Belford Semillon!

The Burge Mesach wooden boxes are a nice touch!

Exactly what I thought!
Langtons' was getting rid of a bunch from the warehouse early this year (late last year?). Earlier half dozens are in Elderton Command (various vintages). Bottles don't quite match the holes for the Mesach (and they were glued in) but they look great from the outside.

mjs wrote:The Burge Mesach wooden boxes are a nice touch!

Yes, however it would have been better if there were some Meshach in the box.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

mjs wrote:The Burge Mesach wooden boxes are a nice touch!

Yes, however it would have been better if there were some Meshach in the box.

My budget doesn't stretch to Meshach, unfortunately. Either for personal or this project. I generally go for as good as I can get for a limited budget.

Cloth Ears wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

mjs wrote:The Burge Mesach wooden boxes are a nice touch!

Yes, however it would have been better if there were some Meshach in the box.

My budget doesn't stretch to Meshach, unfortunately. Either for personal or this project. I generally go for as good as I can get for a limited budget.

Understood, I was just teasing anyway. Ironically, I have a few Meshach but no boxes. They were bought years ago and like you they're now now no longer in my budget.

Cheers .................. Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:

Cloth Ears wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: Yes, however it would have been better if there were some Meshach in the box.

My budget doesn't stretch to Meshach, unfortunately. Either for personal or this project. I generally go for as good as I can get for a limited budget.

Understood, I was just teasing anyway. Ironically, I have a few Meshach but no boxes. They were bought years ago and like you they're now now no longer in my budget.

Cheers .................. Mahmoud.

I was 'fairly sure'...

I occasionally get singles of nicer wines...but dozens I tend to limit myself. Actually, with in interest in hi-fi and wine (and imperial beers) I am limited as to how much I am allowed to spend. My wife and I both like food, but the extra budget goes to fashion and my interests. Split down the middle...
Sigh! The curse of the married man!

On a completely different note, how is Edmonton? I always wondered if you sort of get locked in during winter at all? I used to correspond with some guys in the Baltic countries who would basically stock up with supplies for the winter and build a new set of speakers or an amplifier while they were locked in.

Edmonton is fine. We've had a good summer, lots of warm, sunny days, though when it rained it came down in buckets and affected many oof the farmers in the region. Winter can be brutal at time but it is a dry climate and we have central heating and know how to drive in the snow. Some people do get locked down but others take winter as it comes and remain just as active. For my own part I belong to a running group that runs all year round and we meet up regardless of the weather. Being exposed to the weather all year round sort of inures us to the cold. Just today I met up with the group and near the end of the trail it started raining. I was quite wet when I finished and after changing into a dry, long-sleeved cotton shirt I was quite comfortable, enjoying my post-run beer.

The only thing I seem to stock up on seems to be wine, and try as i might I never seem to stop.

Cheers .................... Mahmoud.