The Auswine Forum

Hi all,

is the Penfolds Coonawarra Claret http://www.penfoldsclaret.com.au/that is being given away as a promotion for the bin series release this year a re-labelled Bin128, or is it something different?

cheers,
Tom

It's a shiraz cabernet blend so the answer would be no, it's not a re-badged Bin 128.

ahh, many thanks. I see now it says Shiraz Cab on the bottle on the website if I zoom right in and cross my eyes a bit. I asked because I understood that Bin 128 was called Coonawarra Claret back in the day.

cheers,
Tom

How are they getting away with the name "claret"? I thought this was trademarked along the same lines as champagne?

Terms like Champagne, Burgundy, Hermitage, Port etc are all real places/regions that apply to specific wine styles and their localities and, under international law, are expressly to be used for wine from that place/region and are protected against being used generically by producer's outside these areas. Perhaps the term Claret (as an English (as in British) bastardisation of the French word "clairet" that means "not that dark" or "pale") doesn't come under the same protection? I'm pretty sure Penfolds would do the necessary checks before breaking international branding laws.

Even though no price is given for the Magnum of Claret, there's got to be some realistic estimate of it's commercial value - also, does anyone have knowledge of where the wine comes from, and is it related/the same as some existing Penfolds product?

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I wounder if Sparky can shed any light on this for us?

Perhaps because it is not being commercially released they can get away with it. I for one quite like the retro branding as a bit of a novelty.

This from one of Philip Whites latest blogs, might answer a bit of the above:

http://drinkster.blogspot.com/2011/02/i ... pagne.html

"The Frogs have taken claret back, too, which is a bit rich, considering that word was a London wine merchant’s patois abbreviation of the old French clairette, meaning rosé. To celebrate the banning of our use of claret – which becomes law on September 1st 2011 - the bloodthirsty wine bats of Penfolds have blended a beauty, which is in magnums and wrapped in a handsome art deco label. And it ain’t friggin rosé. It’s claret, see.

It’ll become one of Australia’s most collectible collectibles."

Maybe it's a one fingered peace sign directed at the French before we can't use the word anymore in six months time (not that many here have used it in decades anyway) along with a lot of other stuff. Then again, I remember Penfolds did run a contest a year or two ago to name their latest creation from the Coonawarra, with a bottle of Grange up for grabs - I never heard what the winner was, maybe this was it?

Cheers,
Ian

I wasn't aware of the September 2011 start date.

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Sean wrote:Maybe the marketing dept at Penfolds isn't either. Or if they are, then it seems an obstinate thing to do. Clearly Sep 2011 is intended as a phase out date to give time to wineries to stop using the word claret on their labels, so I am surprised that Penfolds has done this.

I don't think so, as the wine is a one off that is not for retail sale and will not be available any more come September anyway. If they were starting a line of wines under the label then there'd be issues. As they know the wine will never be retailed, let alone retailed in Euroland, they are obviously making nostalgic use of the label whilst they still can - the last Australian wine ever bottled under the name Claret.

Buyer beware. Just a note on the Terms and Conditions which I just glanced at knowing that there is always fine print.

"offer excludes Dan Murphys, Woolworths Liquor, BWS, Liquorland, First Choice, Vintage Cellars amongst others"

I foresee a few soon-to-be-unhappy punters being caught out on this little hidden clause.
EDIT: It pays to read the whole page before jumping at offers. Participating outlets option at the top. My apologies.

odyssey wrote:

Sean wrote:Maybe the marketing dept at Penfolds isn't either. Or if they are, then it seems an obstinate thing to do. Clearly Sep 2011 is intended as a phase out date to give time to wineries to stop using the word claret on their labels, so I am surprised that Penfolds has done this.

I don't think so, as the wine is a one off that is not for retail sale and will not be available any more come September anyway. If they were starting a line of wines under the label then there'd be issues. As they know the wine will never be retailed, let alone retailed in Euroland, they are obviously making nostalgic use of the label whilst they still can - the last Australian wine ever bottled under the name Claret.

Odyssey, you're on the money - it harks back to the old Auldana labels. I saw an exquisite 1903 bottle at the Brisbane clinic last year that was very similar. See here for Peter's comments:

https://secure.penfoldsclaret.com.au/Magnum.aspx

You'll find that the 'hidden clause' regarding excluded retailers is pretty front and centre when you get to the website and start putting in a claim which I expect you all will be doing in the next day or so.. I certainly will.

sparky wrote:

odyssey wrote:

Sean wrote:Maybe the marketing dept at Penfolds isn't either. Or if they are, then it seems an obstinate thing to do. Clearly Sep 2011 is intended as a phase out date to give time to wineries to stop using the word claret on their labels, so I am surprised that Penfolds has done this.

I don't think so, as the wine is a one off that is not for retail sale and will not be available any more come September anyway. If they were starting a line of wines under the label then there'd be issues. As they know the wine will never be retailed, let alone retailed in Euroland, they are obviously making nostalgic use of the label whilst they still can - the last Australian wine ever bottled under the name Claret.

Odyssey, you're on the money - it harks back to the old Auldana labels. I saw an exquisite 1903 bottle at the Brisbane clinic last year that was very similar. See here for Peter's comments:

https://secure.penfoldsclaret.com.au/Magnum.aspx

You'll find that the 'hidden clause' regarding excluded retailers is pretty front and centre when you get to the website and start putting in a claim which I expect you all will be doing in the next day or so.. I certainly will.

EDIT: You're right, I didn't see the "participating outlets" at the top - good to read the whole page before going to make any purchases!

Ah yes - if there's one thing I've learnt in this job, it's 'read the fine print' before slapping down the cash..

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sparky wrote:Ah yes - if there's one thing I've learnt in this job, it's 'read the fine print' before slapping down the cash..

Sparky, just clarifying, does it need to be current bin release? I've read the fine print in detail and not seen anywhere that it specifies that it must be current Bin release, just "6 x 750ml bottles of Penfolds Bins wine (in one transaction) from participating independent outlet or participating online retailer".

Cheers

odyssey, any vintage will do so long as it's a Bin and so long as there are six of them. And yes, if you do want to throw in a Bin 707 we'd count that too.

Would be a bit hypocritical of us to discriminate against back vintages, being Penfolds and all.

sparky

Have tried the participating outlets tab and it does not like any of the postcodes i've put in and it will not give me a full list of outlets.
Anybody else had this issue?
One more what vintage is the magnum from?

richie,

We're a little behind on getting the participating outlet info up (those who deal with large numbers of field sales reps will know the pain of getting info out of them when required), but most 'winey' independent retailers are involved.

If in doubt, ask your local, so long as they're not one of the specifically mentioned outlet groups not participating.

If you get stuck, call my team for suggestions 1300 651 650. sparky

Oh, 2009..

I have a question in 2 parts. What is the quality of the "Coonawarra Claret" like? Is it along the lines of a Koonunga Hill or more like a Bin wine? This leads to the questions of cellaring ability. Is it a drink now proposition or is it good enugh to cellar for a while?

With the $22 delivery charge it is well worth knowing this. Also as it is just from the independent bottle shops who charge more as opposed to the big guys the question has to be asked...is it worth it?

ticklenow,

I can only help you with a subjective and personal opinion, because 'value' can't be anything else.

The value I see in it is being able to open the magnum in a good many years time (I'm going to aim for 15-20) with a table full of my best friends and have a memorable night of wine & food. For me, myself and I, that's easily worth the price differential. The money I might have 'saved' will have long faded into insignificance when I'm enjoying the ritual and sensory pleasure of opening and sharing an aged magnum of the last Penfolds claret ever made.

You'll have to make your own choice..

I guess after the epic saga of the Vintec cabinets last year they thought they'd try something a bit more in-house.
As such, the 'Claret' bottling is more of a promotional tool than a 'wine' destined to annoy the EU/AWBC.
GG

Sean wrote:According to the Guide to Wine Law on the Wine Australia website -

The following European GIs and traditional expressions may be used until the listed phase-out date, but may not be exported to the EU.

On 1 September 2011: Amontillado, Auslese, Burgundy, Chablis, Champagne, Claret, Fino, Graves, Manzanilla, Marsala, Moselle, Oloroso, Port, Sauternes, Sherry, Spatlese, White Burgundy.

It's not just wine either - there's a story on the ABC this morning that we're now not allowed to use the word "Cornish" for Cornish pasties anymore:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 ... 154831.htm

Cheers,
Ian

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I tasted through the new Bin releases last night and none of them provided anything to get excited about. I thought the best value for money was the Bin 138, the Barossan GSM blend. The 407 was pretty solid as well while the 389 was somewhat disjointed. The new 150 is quite far from being an outstanding 'sub-regional' wine and I'd describe it as typical for the Marananga region.

The delivery fee for the Claret magnum is $22, so add that to the difference and the cost of the magnum is $72.94

Regarding the Claret, it's a decent drink from over the next 10 years. It's incredibly coincidental that in my scribbled notes, I had written that if this was a 750ml bottle, I'd pay about $35. So that's an excellent estimation Sean!

Sean wrote:Ian, I have no problem with Penfolds offering us a magnum of wine to buy their bins. But did they really have to put a retrograde and unhelpful “Claret” label on it?

Why are you asking me? You really should be directing this question to Sparky or someone who works there via her.

On the slightly related topic of us not being able to use the word "Cornish" for those type of pasties anymore (and wow there is a huge export market threatening the EU - NOT), just where is this stuff going to end? Sometime in the future, are we also going to be banned from using Napoletana, Bolognese, or any word in the European language to do with food and drink?

Cheers,
Ian