The Auswine Forum

Thought it worthwhile this year with mini vertical of 05,07 and 09 Coleraine. All top vintages. Ive signed up

Yes, think I'll give this a go. 6 pm on thursday 3rd march, maritime museum, for those interested.

cool. will see you there. i havent been to a tasting in town during the week for years!

No - I'm really going off Te Mata (as a company rather than the wine). Thurs evening at the Viaduct means either taxi or parking fees to add to the $30 charge they're already heading up, and I've tasted all the wines already bar the 09 Bordeaux blends.

As a vent can I say that Te Mata:
1] Have higher prices for wines that I buy off their mailing list or at their cellar door than the prices at my local wine merchant or supermarket
2] Make me freight back corked wines to them *at my cost* to be replaced with current vintage only

As a mail order customer for >20 years I've had enough of dealing with them, and the idea of paying $30 for a tasting, which the last time I went was crowded and limited, is beyond me especially when companies like Dry River and Felton Rd do such a good job of looking after their mail order customers.

Anyway, here's hoping I'm wrong and it a good night out.

Cheers
Rob

No - I'm really going off Te Mata (as a company rather than the wine). Thurs evening at the Viaduct means either taxi or parking fees to add to the $30 charge they're already heading up, and I've tasted all the wines already bar the 09 Bordeaux blends.

As a vent can I say that Te Mata:
1] Have higher prices for wines that I buy off their mailing list or at their cellar door than the prices at my local wine merchant or supermarket
2] Make me freight back corked wines to them *at my cost* to be replaced with current vintage only

As a mail order customer for >20 years I've had enough of dealing with them, and the idea of paying $30 for a tasting, which the last time I went was crowded and limited, is beyond me especially when companies like Dry River and Felton Rd do such a good job of looking after their mail order customers.

Anyway, here's hoping I'm wrong and it a good night out.

Cheers
Rob

Rob

I hear you $30 is a bit but you do get to try 10 wines some of them benchmark vino

09 Awatea
07 Awatea
05 Awatea
09 Coleraine
07 Coleraine
05 Coleraine
10 Cape crest
09 Elston
09 Bullnose
09 Zara

What is the cheapest you have seen coleraine at a supermarket? $65?? it is what $70 at the cellar door?? Compare that with Church Road? I think you will find you can get a church rd reserve for $10 less at a supermarket too or any other wine a supermarket sells on its day. More to do with supermarkets than the wineries and its only a few bucks difference (no pun intended ha ha). I don't think you can single Te Mata out for this. It is the same story with everyone. Name me a NZ winery where it is significantly cheaper CD. Obviously one advantage of a CD is you can try before you buy and it is a bit more pleasant than a wine aisle at a supermarket!!

Remember also clear as day back in the day when there was a substantial CD discount (and still today even) I would hear wine shop owners complaining to me that the CD price at Te Mata is too cheap and that they couldn't compete at fair margin. So there is a thin line to tread here for the guys. If they go too cheap they get whacked by retailers. A couple of vintages ago (was it 05's??) Te Mata released a 6 pack of Coleraine deal $60pb from memory which upset retailers on release.

Mind you I am amazed you can still buy the magnificent 98 Coleraine retail in two retail shops I know for $100. That is outstanding value vs a new release....maybe that is where the smart money should go (I got the smart bit, now where is the money!!??)

Do Felton Road and Dry River do back vintages at their tastings? Not Dry River when i have been. Remember the standard new releases night at the winery is free, though this doesnt have back vintages and they lay on a great evening with compliments. Felton Road charge for tastings at the CD (and Blocks are never there from what i have experienced and heard), Dry River don't open. Te Mata provide free tastings at CD. Outside the month of March it is a bit hit and miss if Coleraine is open, but usually a good selection is available.

Parking and bla bla, I agree. I can hardly ever be bothered driving to town for any tasting because of the hassle and the cost but this time will make an exception given the vintages on offer. I don't every year - sometimes machines at fwdc have to suffice

I have been a customer of te Mata since the 1994's buying some of their wine every year without fail; Coleraine from all but the poorest years, Elston nearly every year along with many vintages of Awatea, Cape Crest etc. They have always been very good to me.

Although Coleraine has crept up in price over the last decade, it still remains fair value vs its peers. Awatea over delivers especially in top vintages, the 07 a stonker at $30. Elston always carves up in comparitive blind tastings and is again very good value too.

Corked wines. I would say the size of the library they have is pretty small compared to their sales. I doubt they could reasonably replace every faulty bottle with the same vintage. yes bloody annoying especially if it is a well cellared top vintage of coleraine!!! Those wineries that do should be commended for exceptional service though I doubt realistically anyone can expect it. Perhaps a current vintage and something else - i dunno. I am lucky enough to have had next to no corked wines of any consequence so far. I sure I am being saved for a 1st growth bdx disaster or something!!!

Personally I have found the team John, Nick, Phil, Sally and Peter excellent. They always reply to my emails, always happy to talk and genuinely happy to see you and offer time/ opinion and listen. They have never been a charity to me but I don't expect it. They have good product and provide good service mostly at a fair enough price by my books so all good.

Craig - Coleraine is $75 for a single bottle at cellar door, vs $66 and $68 from Caro's or First Glass. I don't mind the price being the same, but I see no reason why it should be more expensive at cellar door or mailing list especially if when purchased this way you still have to add freight. Sure you can get 10% off for a dozen but Caro's do that as well. Given that the wine shops are still making profit @ $66 it seems rude to charge mail order customers more IMO.

I'm on many mail lists - Pegasus Bay is the only one that is substantially cheaper than standard retail prices but most offer some inducement to make buying wine this way more attractive than getting it from a supermarket.

As for corked wines - Te Mata is the only winery I've come across where I've needed to freight back corked wines at my cost. Most are happy for me to use a local agent or to simply replace the wine. I've both emailed and phoned them about this - if they had bothered to check their mail order records they could see how much wine I'd ordered off them over the years and how little I've sent back.....

Paradox wrote:Craig - Coleraine is $75 for a single bottle at cellar door, vs $66 and $68 from Caro's or First Glass. I don't mind the price being the same, but I see no reason why it should be more expensive at cellar door or mailing list especially if when purchased this way you still have to add freight. Sure you can get 10% off for a dozen but Caro's do that as well. Given that the wine shops are still making profit @ $66 it seems rude to charge mail order customers more IMO.

Yes but NZ is not a planned economy, you are going to have price variations! Again I have to stress working in the Trade Marketing field that you have to remember Te Mata will be marketing not only to you and me the consumer but to buyers at PEL, Foodstuffs, Liquor Chains, and independants. To sell to them they can't be seen to be under cutting via the cellar door. Again remember Te Mata once was significantly cheaper and I can almost guarantee that this policy was revised because of pressure from these groups not because they wanted to make a quick buck on Cellar Door Sales. I think any winery will tell you a Cellar Door is a marketing cost not a channel to riches.

The flip side of course is you the consumer can make decisions as to where you shop, which you do much to the delight of retailers and probably not so for Te Mata Cellar Door

Just to change the subject slightly. I do agree that Coleraine and Awatea are pretty good value for what they are, but I have a feeling Elston has dropped off a bit in quality. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts when you get to try them.

Craig, a good defence of Coleraine, and you deal with most of the points raised.

However, what do you say about a winery which makes you pay to send back corked wines, particularly if you have been a mailorder customer of theirs for 20 plus years?

That seems a bit rich.

Just to change the subject slightly. I do agree that Coleraine and Awatea are pretty good value for what they are, but I have a feeling Elston has dropped off a bit in quality. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts when you get to try them.

I wasnt that taken by the current 09 when I tried it on release and it is the first vintage I havent bought since the 98. Had some 04s last year that were stellar, and given 3-4 years in the cellar they seem always to deliver. I have had them in blind top comparative line ups twice (96 and 05 from memory) and they dazzle and surprise at half the price. Kumeu River though since 06 have really stepped up their game. Sacred Hill Riflemans also perhaps you could say has dethroned Elston as Hawkes Bays best chardonnay? However still good wine and very seriosly taken by Te Mata

Craig, a good defence of Coleraine, and you deal with most of the points raised.

However, what do you say about a winery which makes you pay to send back corked wines, particularly if you have been a mailorder customer of theirs for 20 plus years?

That seems a bit rich.
Craig, a good defence of Coleraine, and you deal with most of the points raised.

However, what do you say about a winery which makes you pay to send back corked wines, particularly if you have been a mailorder customer of theirs for 20 plus years?

That seems a bit rich.

Agree, it would be good customer service to pay the freight. Small cost especially to keep a long term customer happy. Not even sure why the bottle in question needs to be frieghted. Cork in an envelope should be enough?

Heard today from someone who has tried the 09 Coleraine that it is a big long term monster of a wine and a "wow" experience. Can't wait!!

Campbell seems to like the 09's. Coleraine 97pts, Awatea 93.

cheers jafa

Ive tried the 09 Awatea and although good I think the 07 is better. It is "quite ripe", maybe a tad too ripe and loose knit for my liking? Will reserve judgement though until after showcase. Very much looking forward to 09 Coleraine although finding out today we need four new tyres on the wifes car today is throwing a dampner on things

Brief impressions from last night

The 2009 Coleraine is certainly a very impressive wine. While it does not quite have the size or textural elements that the 2007 has (yet?) it is a more refined wine with a tad more focus. The flavours are awesome...I thought "graves-esque". Lovely freshness, acids and all that awesome violet and graphite going on on the palate and nose. High dry extract, composed, detailed.

The 2005 and 2007 Coleraines were also awesome. All of the vintages probably had elements that were impressive over the others. Whether 2009 is "the greatest" can be discussed when the vintage is sold out, you know how marketers work. However 2009 Coleraine is definitely up there with the all time great vintages and one to buy

The 2009 Awatea didn't really do it for me. The 2007 was awesome and for me a huge step up in seriousness. 2005 and 2009 nice wines, but the 2007 stamps its mark as a classic. I still regard this as the best Awatea made.

Perhaps although their thoughts at eyeing up First Growths for comparisons are a little premature (id like to see a little more size and depth but if you had to compare I think Coleraine is perhaps a Margaux weighted wine with a Haut Brion like flavour profile), it is plain to see that Te Mata is going from strength to strength with a strong drive to improve. A run of good vintages certainly is helping.

07 and 09 coleraine definitely see a shift from a more new world berry dominant flavour set (the red currant, cream, up front blackcurrant) across to a more complex deeper bdx set which includes notes of cigar box, violets, liquorice, coffee, graphite, blood, dark roses, cedar, iodine. it is these flavours combined with the beautifully fine tannins that will certainly see Coleraine continue strongly as a afficianados wine.

A great event put on by Te Mata and very well run in a lovely venue. The Zara, Capecrest, Bullnose and Elston looked at in the foyer. Lots of great big cheese platters, bottled water, lovely view over the harbour and chit chat. Then a well put together more formal sit down lead through the 3 Coleraines and 3 Awateas with John, Nick and Peter all speaking.


Where were you Mike? Didn't see you there

Sounds great Craig, thanks for your notes. Yeah unfortunately something came up and I couldn't make it... will have to try the Coleraine and Awatea... I get some awatea every year, so I'm sure I'll keep that vertical going. Sounds like I'll need to get some coleraine this year too - funds are kinda short at tho at moment tho.

Sounds great Craig, thanks for your notes. Yeah unfortunately something came up and I couldn't make it... will have to try the Coleraine and Awatea... I get some awatea every year, so I'm sure I'll keep that vertical going. Sounds like I'll need to get some coleraine this year too - funds are kinda short at tho at moment tho.

yeah know what you mean. my buying has been very targeted and will continue to be so. A small circle of favourites and the odd cheapie when needed for those audiences that don't appreciate the finer vino.

In the past I would have bought a couple of awatea and a handful of whites too. Not this year

Thanks for the notes Craig.

I'm going along to Caro's version of the tasting (same line-up) on Monday -- was unfortunately in Wgtn on night of this week's Akld tasting / Akld night of Wgtn tasting.

Returned the other night to the 2nd half of a bottle of the '09 Awatea that had spent 2 weeks with a cork in the fridge. No signs of oxidisation whatsoever & drinking very nicely.

Cheers
Peter