The Auswine Forum

Good Afternoon all. Whilst tasting some aged Australian Chardonnay recently, I found the general results quite poor overall from such names as Petaluma, Mountadam, Dalwhinnie and Howard Park from the 96 and 97 vintages . There was even one wine, a 1996 Salitage Chardonnay that was completely dead, lacking any existance of fruit or flavour other than a slight sherry resemblence. I am curious to hear what other have to say on aged Aussie chards in general, and more specifically - has anyone tried a 96 (or slightly aged) Salitage Chardonnay recently?

I still have not found anything that comes close to the 95 Leeuwin Art Chard!

Darren

Darren Davis wrote:Good

I still have not found anything that comes close to the 95 Leeuwin Art Chard!

Darren

Totally agree
I only reckon Mt Mary and Leeuwin age in specific vintages. As a generalisaton all others are drink within 1-3 years. I own 6 bottles of chardonnay in total Leeuwin 1995 x5, Mt Mary 2000x1.
I had a case of the Salitage 96 or 97 and it fell over within two years- all my family got it for christmas gifts
I buy the chardonnay and drink it that night.
cheers
michel

Salitage had some major cork issues with 96 chard as i recall. The wine might well be cactus now anyway but there was certainly some oxidised bottles floating about on release.

guest wrote:Salitage had some major cork issues with 96 chard as i recall. The wine might well be cactus now anyway but there was certainly some oxidised bottles floating about on release.

Most interesting Mr Guest
I still think we are a long way from knowing how Pemberton wines will age.
michel

Well, at Christmas 2001 the 1992 Tyrrells Vat 47 was absolutely singing like a bird. I might concede that the Hunter's chardonnay vintages are more variable that Marg. River's, but given a better-than-average year the Vat 47 will stand shoulder to shoulder with any chardonnay produced in this country.

Agree on some of the others not living up to expectation - I've still got 2 x 98 Petaluma Chardy's to finish, and frankly, they're getting rather flat and uninteresting. 98 Grosset was marginally better, but I still think these (top SA chard) are at their peak at 5 years...

cheers,
Graeme

So the ultimate great Australian Chardonnay taste off for five year olds would include Leeuwin, Vat 47, Giaconda & Mt Mary. Not a huge line up!

Darren Davis wrote:So the ultimate great Australian Chardonnay taste off for five year olds would include Leeuwin, Vat 47, Giaconda & Mt Mary. Not a huge line up!

Why would you want to hold a tasting for five year olds. They prefer milk.

You could add Cullen, Devils Lair, Lakes Folly, Lark Hill, Savaterre (I think it will), Voyager, Pierro, Howard Park (new style under Kerrigan - sure the 2001 and 2002 will go a long long way) etc etc. Point is the many winemakers are making the wine differently now i.e. with longevity in mind.

Wooden

Wooden wrote:[

You could add Cullen, Devils Lair, Lakes Folly, Lark Hill, Savaterre (I think it will), Voyager, Pierro, Howard Park (new style under Kerrigan - sure the 2001 and 2002 will go a long long way) etc etc. Point is the many winemakers are making the wine differently now i.e. with longevity in mind.

Wooden

Thanks for the insight Wooden Eye
Savaterre- young vines and no track record
Voyager- some years will go 5 most will not
Cullen- agree could be ok
Devils Lair- some years may make it
Lark Hill- will age not sure if it improves
Pierro- nope
Howard Park- pick the correct year as they fall over
Lakes Folly- hmm depends on the style you like

Australian chardonnay with few exceptions doesnt improve beyond 2-3 years so why bother 5 or more ?
regards
Mrs Wooden Eye

I reckon that it is not just Oz Chardonnay that in most cases does not age. My favourite wine writer , Michael Broadbent , clearly has stated " As with most of the world's dry white wines , white burgundy is made to be drunk while still young and fresh...however , the finest will not only keep but .....benefit from ...bottle age ". this is clearly a small minority. So cellar Le Monrachet from Burgundy....and cellar Leeuwin from Margaret River. Most others are at their best soon after release or at best , interesting , as they get older. So it is no surprise or disgrace that most Oz chardonnays don't age in a fantastic way.

Had a mind blowing Sorrenburg chardonnay recently and I think it was the 97 vintage.

Also have found the Penfolds bin labels, in particular the Bin 94A rather good. Had one last year that was still holding up nicely but I probably should look at drinking the remaining bottles sooner than later. Kinda interested to see what happens to them though.

Mainly tend to drink hunter Chardonnay due to proximity to Sydney and find the price point of Leeuwin & Giaconda and similar more then I am prepared to pay for Oz chardy.

Lake's Folly that I but in limited quantity from time to time easily reaches 5 years and generally will extend beyond that time frame.

Tyrells Vat 47 is capable of the same.

Savaterre definitely showed potential at the recent Vic Wine show.

I think quality hunter white (Chard, Semillon) tends to outlast the Sth Aust (barossa) counterparts.

Pfieffer from Rutherglen releases aged chardonnay that definitely is worth the sheer surprise of finding aged chardonnay that is palatable and can trick many a wine bore given the age and region.

Overall drink your Oz chardonnay between 3 - 5 years and you should not end up to disappointed.

Hi all

A mate and I recently opened a 97 Yerringberg Chardonnay to find it was anything but boring or dull. Wonderfully complex & a joy to drink. So much so that he accused me of trying to crawl into the bottle when his back was turned!

I have a few in the cellar and have every confidence they will last 7+ years.

Cheers

Matt P

Matt P wrote:Hi all

A mate and I recently opened a 97 Yerringberg Chardonnay to find it was anything but boring or dull. Wonderfully complex & a joy to drink. So much so that he accused me of trying to crawl into the bottle when his back was turned!

I have a few in the cellar and have every confidence they will last 7+ years.

Cheers

Matt P

Good call.
My last one was corked but the one before that was as you say wonderful and complex. Check the mail list booklet as they did mention a particular year that was developing fast and they said to drink up - could have been the 14% 1997.
regards
michel

Had a 1999 Wellington Chardonnay from tassie yesterday. Absolutely beautiful wine, very impressed, still very youthful, will hang on to my remaining few for a few years yet

My take on the ageability of Oz chardy's is that none are better after 7 years and that includes the Leeuwin Estate, Giaconda and Mount Mary.

Yes, there is the ocassional surprise but on the whole my experience has shown they do last but do not improve.

I've recently completed scattered verticals of Leeuwin and Mount Mary (notes will posted soon) and all though the older wines lasted the distance, they weren't particularly complex or interesting.

Out of interest I opened up a 1997 Lenswood Vineyards Chardonnay last Saturday evening. Purchased at only £6.99 - I suspect it was a bin end dumped by the supplier.

This is a pretty rich wine on release, so I was not surprised to see the wines bright golden colour. However, while being mature and developed, it wasn't a lost cause - lots of ripe figs and touches of honeydew. Not to everyone's taste, but an interesting drink nonetheless. I certainly wouldn't age it any further though!

Regards
Phil

Surprised by the lack of interest in aged chard and the gross generalizations being bandied around. Have got verticals of Moss Wood and Pierro from about 91 to the current and have not often been disappointed (mainly corks ). Had a 94 Pierro 3-4 weeks ago and it was great, still very lively and full. Had many Moss Wood 93 and 94 in the past year and all supurb.

One begins to question the cellaring, one thinks

Cheers

Mark G

Recently drank couple of the Penfold 94A and they are very good. Got them from auction and cost me $A24 each.
Have a Mount Mary 95 half year ago and it is excellent.
Will taste a 1990 Vat 47 magnum on coming monday and hope it won't disappoint me. Let you guy know sometime next week.

Baby Chickpea wrote:My take on the ageability of Oz chardy's is that none are better after 7 years and that includes the Leeuwin Estate, Giaconda and Mount Mary.

Yes, there is the occasional surprise but on the whole my experience has shown they do last but do not improve.

I've recently completed scattered verticals of Leeuwin and Mount Mary (notes will posted soon) and all though the older wines lasted the distance, they weren't particularly complex or interesting.

I agree. I wonder how many people know what they are really looking for in an aged chardonnay, what constitutes improvement?

A wine that lacks complexity when young, will not develop it later. Tertiary flavours and weights maybe, many of which are unpleasant but complexity no.

I have had quite a few aged (9 - 10yrs) top notch oz and calif chardonnays recently and the best I could say about most was that the finish was still fresh and cleansing, given that the fruit was non existent, whiffy butterscotch everwhere and a flabby structure all over the palate.

Leeuwin holds up very well, but is no better at 10 years than it was at 4.

I believe many Chardonnay wines from Australia in the late 90s were bottles with low sulphur dioxide and/or lots of malo and are tiring faster than may have been the case.

Of course most Chardonnays will age quickly but many ageworthy wines, some listed in above, perhaps will be better now.

We'll see.

Just my 2c worth. Had a delicious Roxburgh 1997 about a month ago. Wonderfully mature stuff, lots of butterscotch and coffee (yes coffee) on the nose, but still some fruit and enough acid to not make it too much of a struggle to drink more than 1 glass. Wouldn't cellar it much longer tho.

The 2001 is a welcome return to form for a wine that IMO has generally underimpressed and overoaked!

So maybe the 7 year rule is correct Chickpea.

MP

Martin Phillipson wrote:Just my 2c worth. Had a delicious Roxburgh 1997 about a month ago. Wonderfully mature stuff, lots of butterscotch and coffee (yes coffee) on the nose, but still some fruit and enough acid to not make it too much of a struggle to drink more than 1 glass. Wouldn't cellar it much longer tho.

The 2001 is a welcome return to form for a wine that IMO has generally underimpressed and overoaked!

So maybe the 7 year rule is correct Chickpea.

MP

IMO the 97 Roxburgh is one of the better ones of this line, not overdone the way other vintages have been (the 96 was a shocker).

I've had a few aged chardys this weekend, apologies for lack of notes:
95 Brown Bros Family Reserve, which was getting tired but still very classy: would have drunk this at its peak two years ago;
94 Penfolds Bin 94A, which had gone quite golden but was still excellent with food
98 Cullen last night, and it is indeed a lovely drink and at its peak for mine. much more a European style than the others, and built to age a bit. This was toasted nuts and struck match on the nose, and superripe peach with a lemon lime finish.

Were any of these better for being aged? The Brown Bros wasnt, the 94A maybe, and the Culen was an improvement.

Cheers

Andrew

Mrs Wooden Eye wrote:
Australian chardonnay with few exceptions doesnt improve beyond 2-3 years so why bother 5 or more ?
regards
Mrs Wooden Eye

Surely you jest !

Has anyone here tried the 97 LEAS chard ? I last had this in may and it was simply stunning.. and far better than the 95 IMO.

I also believe our top Aus chard winemakers are moving more towards chard styles which will age well. We really have moved on from the peaches and cream styles which will simply become flabbier with age.

JP

It's a sad state of affairs to read this thread, only because I truly wish to be stunned by an Aussie Chard, yet I see none of these brilliant ones here....... , never mind the vintages you site
Still, a very interesting thread, thanks for thje insider info !
Cheers,
Mishy

Mishy wrote:It's a sad state of affairs to read this thread, only because I truly wish to be stunned by an Aussie Chard, yet I see none of these brilliant ones here....... , never mind the vintages you site
Still, a very interesting thread, thanks for thje insider info !
Cheers,
Mishy

01 Giaconda. If you are not stunned by that then you dont like chardonnay.

Mark G wrote:Surprised by the lack of interest in aged chard and the gross generalizations being bandied around. Have got verticals of Moss Wood and Pierro from about 91 to the current and have not often been disappointed (mainly corks ). Had a 94 Pierro 3-4 weeks ago and it was great, still very lively and full. Had many Moss Wood 93 and 94 in the past year and all supurb.

One begins to question the cellaring, one thinks

Cheers

Mark G

Mark
I cant comment on Pierro.
Moss Wood I purchased a 6 pack via mail order from 94-1999 and stored them at 15-16 degrees.
Upon release all but especially the 95 are amazing wines. I really dont enjoy them with age- they broaden on the palate and become flabby for me. But as with everything it is personal preference.
I am trying to avoid generalisations.
cheers
michel

Josephine wrote:

Mrs Wooden Eye wrote:
Australian chardonnay with few exceptions doesnt improve beyond 2-3 years so why bother 5 or more ?
regards
Mrs Wooden Eye

Surely you jest !

Has anyone here tried the 97 LEAS chard ? I last had this in may and it was simply stunning.. and far better than the 95 IMO.

I also believe our top Aus chard winemakers are moving more towards chard styles which will age well. We really have moved on from the peaches and cream styles which will simply become flabbier with age.

JP

At a Brisbane offline last year there were three bottles of the 97 LEAS: One corked, one badly oxidised, and one apparently quite stunning, which i didnt get to taste

Hey, thats 100 posts!

cheers

AB

Wizz
I tried a magnum of this a month ago and thought it had oxidative characters
michel

The problem for me with Giaconda is getting hold of the stuff, as opposed to something like the Leeuwin Art Series which is available in most good bottle shops. Even my local auction house on rarely has Giaconda but regularly has Leeuwin and others. That and the cost, which last time I checked retail prices was about double that of the Leeuwin.

Michel

Note your comments on Moss Wood - interestingly I prefer the wine after a few years as they tend to be a bit "sharp" (for a better word) in the first year or two to my taste. I've never found the wine "flabby" but there is definately a more broader palate and I find this attractive.

Though to be honest I'd drink a Moss Wood chardonnay whenever it was offered, Kieth makes a fine drop.

Cheers

Mark G