Port Barrel Info

[AusTempest]

Hi,

I'm looking into getting a port barrel for my work social club. Before the comittee approves the purchase they want some info on the barrel and how it is to operate. I've been reading threads from all over the internets for the past week and have gathered a dot point list of general port barrel info. Can somebody please have a read and comment on its accuracy. Also theres a few question marks that i need answered.

Preparing the barrel
 Do the rinse cycles with water overnight or up to a 24 hour period after getting a fresh fired keg.
--- Fill the barrel and empty it about 3 times over this period.
--- The last time rinse it thoroughly shaking out all the sediment and remnants from the firing and machining process.
 After swelling the oak with water and ensuring there are no leaks, empty and put a litre of port in it and rotate barrel to get it to contact all surfaces. You can leave this port in it for a few days (turning regularly to contact all sides) to absorb any excess oak flavours and remove any water remaining in the barrel.
 Then empty and refill with your desired fortified wine.
 Initial fill of port may/will get very oaky (can drain it off for function port)

Maintenance
 There’s no need to mix, or agitate the barrel when in use. The barrel is best left still, as this will allow any sediment to settle, giving you a clearer wine.
 The barrel is best kept in a fairly warm location, ~30deg. Don't put the barrel in direct sunlight, as the wood will dry out.

Refilling the barrel
 To prevent the barrel drying out (which will cause it to leak) maintain the barrel at least half to three-quarters full.
--- Top it up with ~5yo material (bottle, bulk, corked bottle ??)
--- adding aged (50ml of ~50-100yo) material will give it a lot of complexity to offset the youth of the base material.
 Do not top up with bottled tawny's; not only are they usually stale, a hint of cork taint that you don’t pick up from the bottle will (potentially) show itself up in your aged blend.
 LiebichWein, Grant Burge, Bethany, Seppelt, and Kies do good bulk ports. For anround $5 a litre plus container. Stanton and Kileen are good for bulk tokay / muscat
 Addition of muscat/tokay to port barrel?? Good/bad ??
 Addition of brandy/cognac to port barrel?? Good/bad ??

[Mattwine]

Hi AusTempest,

As luck would have it I have just completed this very task over the weekend. Was a little tricky maneuvering the barrel (i have 14 litre barrels) in the laundry tub to do the refills with hot water, but hopefully well worth the effort in the long run.

I'd say the majority of what you have there is spot on. I would say that if you contact the place where you are proposing to get the barrel they would be happy to pass you on their instructions for preparing/maintenance. I was certainly given this info after asking for it. btw got mine from The Keg Factory after recommendations from this forum and they were excellent.

On preparing the barrel, I had heard some say that you do the one litre of port swish around and leave for a few days then empty and refill, but this seems to defeat the purpose of keeping the barrel full (or near to full) and stop it from drying out. In any event the one litre port step was not on my instructions so I did not do it. The only other tip I would add is make sure you have a good funnel handy - saves mess and makes it heaps easier.

Maintenance sounds right to me but others may have some tips here.

And likewise for refilling, I am probably not the best authority having only recently set her up. I have seen much written and heard different things said about what should go in. Seems to be each to their own here; some add spirits and love it and others swear against it. I think blending other fortifieds has some merit if you are chasing a different flavour profile (not sure how you'd know how much to add?) but for what it is worth I am going to try and keep mine "pure" in the sense that only port will go in the port barrel and only muscat will go in the muscat barrel - we'll see how long I can keep that up... I have had a sip or three from a port barrel that had all sorts of goodies added to it and I could not fault the drop - inspired me to get my own! I would imagine adding a bottled tawny wouldn't be a problem if you knew it wasn't past its prime. i.e. an ancient bottle that should have been downed ten years earlier.

I would like to hear others views on what to add and what not to add so that would be good. I know there are many on here who have barrels on the go.

In any event, good luck getting it through the committee!

Matt

[AusTempest]

Thanks for the info Matt,

After reviews and recommendations from fourms (maily this one) I'll be getting (hopefully) a 20L rustic circle keg from the Keg Factory.

I've heard of putting 1 bottle (750ml) of port in to swish around for a day and empty before the initial fill, and i've also heard the same thing with brandy and cognac. Is there any other views on this ???

As for the blend, I'm going with 20L of "Keg blend" from LiebichWein with 100ml of grandfather port. I seriously have no idea what to add to it. We keep bottles of "Bethany Old Quarry Tawny N.V." behind the bar so i might add this in to top it up every now and then, but it states on the Bethany website that it is "fortified with brandy spirit" so either i keep a brandy blend or buy in bottles/bulk specifically to top it up.

I've read a few posts which don't recommend adding port from bottles because of the cork, but other swear by it. Also if i buy 5 or 10L bulk packs for it and can only fit half in, can i keep the rest in the container for an indefinate amout of time to fill it later or will it go off in the bulk container its provided in?

Thanks again
Temp

[Michael McNally]

Hi there

There are a couple of comprehensive discussions of port barrels (and their contents) on these threads:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6782

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10968

Cheers

Michael

[AusTempest]

Hi Michael,

I've alreasy read through both of those (a few times actually).

My main question is about additives to the port and preping the barrel (muscat/brandy) as per last post.

Do you have any personal preference on these issues?

[bacchaebabe]

Hi Temp,

I've been running a muscat barrel successfully for the last year. One of the best things, etc..

Anyhoo, I'd personally not add cognac or brandy to the barrel and if you choose to, I'd make it a ver small amount. My reasoning here is that fortified wines are already fortified. You're not making port, you're just running a barrel. The winery does the fortifying and I don't believe you need to add anything except oak and age.

In terms of the chucking the one bottle in first, probably not a bad idea as the first lot is very oaky indeed, especially if you're doing the seasoning yourself. I bought mine pre-seasoned so this wasn't an issue for me. Stanton and Killeen sell pre-seasoned barrels if you're interested. The main thing is not to let the barrel dry out so maybe don't leave it for 24 hours but just do it over one day and keep moving the wine about during the day then tip it. (or drink it).

Hope this helps.

[Mattwine]

Temp,
I understand that because the wines are fortifieds and stored in inert plastic containers, there are no huge dramas in just hanging on to the excess until you need it. This is the advice I was given after posing the same question. I got some gear from liebich too.

Cheers
Matt

[Alex F]

Temp,
I understand that because the wines are fortifieds and stored in inert plastic containers, there are no huge dramas in just hanging on to the excess until you need it. This is the advice I was given after posing the same question. I got some gear from liebich too.

Cheers
Matt

I am not convinced. When we emptied out our barrel to send it back I thought the extra oxidation affected the port somewhat.

[AusTempest]

If you secure the lid it will limit the amount of air that the port gets exposed to and therefore limit the oxidation. Wether the amount of air already in the container is anough to over oxidate the port i dunno.

[Bill]

I'm looking into getting a port barrel for my work social club.

What size barrel are you thinking of? If it’s for a work social club, I’d image it’d get a fair amount of port drained from it on a regular basis. If that’s the case, I think a 20L barrel (like most of us use) may be too small. You might want to look at something larger, like a 50L size.

Generally the larger the barrel the better. The greater the turnover of the port in the barrel, the less time it gets to age. A good rule of thumb that I read was that the fraction that you turnover per year will be the average age the port will eventually get to. Eg. If you turnover 1/3rd of the barrel per year, the port will age by an average of 3 years in the barrel. 1/5th turnover per year equals 5 years average age added to the port, etc. However, since these small barrels age the port quicker (approx. 3 times quicker I’ve heard) than the large barrels that the wineries use, 3 years age may be more like 9 years effective age.

Preparing the barrel
 Do the rinse cycles with water overnight or up to a 24 hour period after getting a fresh fired keg.
--- Fill the barrel and empty it about 3 times over this period.
--- The last time rinse it thoroughly shaking out all the sediment and remnants from the firing and machining process.

Quite a bit of sawdust and wood chips can be shaken out of the barrel prior to putting water in it. I’d then rinse it out a few times until no more rubbish comes out.

Then you need to swell the oak prior to use. You’re best using HOT water for this, as it helps the wood expand to get a good seal. Fill with hot water and leave it overnight.

 Initial fill of port may/will get very oaky (can drain it off for function port)

Not necessarily. My barrels aren’t oaky at all, but mine are the “rustic” ones from the Keg Factory, which are made from old fortified barrels (like 50 years or more old). Most barrels are constructed from wood from red wine barrels – these are only about 7 years old, so will have a more oaky taste. If the barrel is made from these younger barrels, you can lessen the impact of the oak by filling with hot water a few times prior to filling with port. The more times you refill with hot water, the more oak taste you’ll suck out of the barrel. Don’t leave water sit in the barrel for more than 24hrs though, as it can go stagnant and mouldy. So refill with fresh hot water every 24hrs.

--- Top it up with ~5yo material (bottle, bulk, corked bottle ??)

Bottles sealed with cork introduce the possibility of cork taint, but screwtop bottles should be fine.

--- adding aged (50ml of ~50-100yo) material will give it a lot of complexity to offset the youth of the base material.

Don’t go overboard with the aged material, particularly when the barrel port is young (ie. the initial fill of the barrel). 50ml in 20L is enough. As the barrel port gets some age on it, it can then take a greater amount of aged material.

 Do not top up with bottled tawny's; not only are they usually stale, a hint of cork taint that you don’t pick up from the bottle will (potentially) show itself up in your aged blend.

This, I think, would really only apply to really old bottles that should have been finished years ago, like old stuff bought from auction. Recent bottlings should be fine.

 LiebichWein, Grant Burge, Bethany, Seppelt, and Kies do good bulk ports. For anround $5 a litre plus container. Stanton and Kileen are good for bulk tokay / muscat

Seppeltsfield do a very nice 7 year old port if you want to start the barrel off with some more age. It’s about $20 per litre though. You could top up with the cheaper 3 year old material after that.

 Addition of muscat/tokay to port barrel?? Good/bad ??
 Addition of brandy/cognac to port barrel?? Good/bad ??

I wouldn’t add any of those things, but that's personal preference. It depends on what taste you’re going for.


regards,
Bill

[Bill]

If you secure the lid it will limit the amount of air that the port gets exposed to and therefore limit the oxidation. Wether the amount of air already in the container is anough to over oxidate the port i dunno.

Oxidation isn't really an issue with port. Tawny port is an oxidised style - it's deliberately oxidised over many years in barrel. The barrels aren't air tight - they are supposed to breathe, so as to slowly oxidise the port over time. Any air in the container won't be a problem. There's air space in the oak barrels anyway, so it's not really that much different to it being in barrel. If you were really worried, when the container is getting very low, you could empty the remaining port in to a smaller container, but I don't think that would really be necessary.

[crusty2]

Or you could take the easy way.

ring Seppeltsfield. they are selling bulk port, muscat, tokay in 20 to 200+ litres

if you were to purchase a Hogshead, 300 litres, they may throw in the barrel as well. you can only ask.

[Reidy49]

I have had my 20 Lt Keg of Muscat going for 13 years now. I am by no means an expert on the subject but I have had no complaints from friends who have sampled my drop over the years. I purchased my Keg in the Barrosa and just took it home filled it with water and left it for 24 hrs emptied it and filled it with young Bulk Muscat from Rutherglen and let it sit there for 12 months. I was very tempted to try it, but I managed to resist but when did finally try it, it was a really nice drop and has improved more and more over the years. I have topped it up with both bulk and good bottled Muscat and as I said previously, no complaints from anyone.