The Auswine Forum

Good evening,

New here - my name is Patrick.

Just wanted to say hi. I have enjoyed wine for many years, but have been on the wrong side of the consume/acquire equation with respect to building up a decent cellar. Currently, we have about 8 cases, so a piddling amount. With a child starting school this year, the budget for wine is also limited. But, I buy what I can.

My other big hurdle at the moment is the ability to 'describe' the wine that I drink. I was a smoker for about 20 years and have been smoke free for 9 months (yesterday). I believe my sense of taste is still some way off returning to normal. I find, at the moment, I am just out of reach in being able to identify the different aromatics and nuances of the wines I drink. Any ideas on how to improve this?

Anyway, look forward to being part of this community.

cheers

Patrick

Howdy Patrick and welcome.

Congratulations on kicking the habit! You may find reading forums to be a new addiction.

Not that I have done this myself, but still an amusing video... one day I should do this...

http://tv.winelibrary.com/2006/12/15/ho ... isode-148/

Cheers
Andrew

Actually what odyssey is proposing is right on the money, especially for developing a good mental library of aromas. Went shopping with the wife last weekend and found myself in the spices section of a store where you could weigh out how much you wanted of an individual spice - so I just opened up a few containers and took a whiff by gently faning the air above the bottle toward my face - nothing worse than seeing someone sticking their nose into something you are considering buying! So smell everything you can, and try to store that away in your memory - that's the hard part.

Describing the taste (acidity, sweetness, bitterness, alcohol, umami (savoriness), astringency) of wine in terms of structure and balance is more complicated. If that is a problem for you I would suggest finding a wine tasting class in your local area that is run by somone with more than just personal experience.

And then get to work on those 8 cases - which is not that small a stash.

Mike

Hey Patrick

After the acting out of odyssey's video with all thoes smells and tastes you have just acquired, I would suggest going to as many tastings as possible.
Generally these are free or a couple of bucks so wont break the bank,and you will get to taste wines from $5 to $500.

You dont need to buy a thing, although somehow i find a case seems to magically appear into my hands.

Cheers,
Red Smurf

G'day Patrick, and welcome.

Have a look at this thread. Nice stories about building your cellar and appreciation:
http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11025

There's also been a thread on 'that defining moment' (or the like) - use the search function - that from memory had some lovely yarns about 'making the breakthrough' to passionate and knowledgable wine appreciation.

There is no substitute for experience, and enjoy the journey. Every wine adds to your education [Julia Gillard says 'Edge-U-cation']. Buying less and better is good for your health. When you can afford it, I recommend Red Bigot's maxim (and subscription site, BTW) that the sweet spot of buying (price-quality-ration, QPR) in Australia is around $25 to $50.

Enjoy,
John

Evening folks,

Thank you for the welcome and the advice.

I am finding that my price point ends up being at about $30, give or take a couple of hundred, and I am rarely disappointed. What's that saying: "Expensive wine is often good value; a cheap wine never is" or something like that.

I am endeavoring to memorise different aromas and flavours I encounter. I also try to balance tasting a wine with the tasting notes at hand (to see if I can pick the nuances described therein) whilst trying not to be overly influenced by them.

And Andrew, I have participated on a number of forums (photography & coffee) almost to the point of addiction.

Overall, I really enjoy the process of tasting, buying and drinking wine. Like coffee, it is a remarkably complex and debated subject for what is, in the end, a fast moving consumer good.

Cheers

Patrick

Hi,

I find that I've got a problem with my sense of smells and tastes too... perhaps due to my indiscriminate love for spicy food, and also from some years of smoking.

What I find useful is to read what various different people pick up in smells & tastes of particular wines, then I taste the wine myself to see if I can sense any of them. It's a bit of a hit & miss, but from the few times that I did that, I was able to pin-point particular smells to a descriptor. So, I think reading other people's tasting notes is very helpful... which I why I spend so much time online, reading forums & blogs!

Recently, I went to the "Understanding Wine" wine-tasting introductory course (delivered by the NWETC @ Adelaide's National Wine Centre), and found that to be very helpful. As part of the course, I had the opportunity to taste up to 40 different wines... and that just helps to improve my palate. The course also helped me to consolidate my "knowledge" (from reading), and allowed them to be crystalised as part of the wine-tasting experience. So, yea, I do recommend that.

From a personal point of view, it's so fun to learn more about wine, and being part of this forum, where I can share a little of what I've experienced, and more importantly, learn from those who are further down this excellent path of enjoyment.

Cheers.
Ray

reschsmooth wrote:Good evening,

New here - my name is Patrick.

Just wanted to say hi. I have enjoyed wine for many years, but have been on the wrong side of the consume/acquire equation with respect to building up a decent cellar. Currently, we have about 8 cases, so a piddling amount. With a child starting school this year, the budget for wine is also limited. But, I buy what I can.

My other big hurdle at the moment is the ability to 'describe' the wine that I drink. I was a smoker for about 20 years and have been smoke free for 9 months (yesterday). I believe my sense of taste is still some way off returning to normal. I find, at the moment, I am just out of reach in being able to identify the different aromatics and nuances of the wines I drink. Any ideas on how to improve this?

Anyway, look forward to being part of this community.

cheers

Patrick

Hello Patrick,

I am in the USA and that being so I am not so familiar with so many wines that are talked about here on the forum. However Wine are wine are wines, and descriptors are pretty much all over with the exception of colloquial names.

There is a handy little gadget that professor and wine lover Ann Noble of the University of California at Davis designed and sells for not a lot of money. She called it "The Aroma Wheel" and it can be found at http://www.winearomawheel.com/ This is the basic story of the Aroma wheel and for a more in depth look go to http://www.winearomawheel.com/doc/userguide.pdf And to order the wheel look at http://www.winearomawheel.com/doc/buy_aroma_wheel.pdf Clicking on the 2nd link you will get a pdf download which will need to be rotated 1/4 turn, to do this click view/rotate view/clockwise Then on the 2nd page of this pdf file, there are some excellent information on how to discover what smells like what...if you understand that.

I really need to come here and read and post occasionally. BTW, I think TORB will vouch that I am a certified wineaux, albeit not a red bigot! I once told Robert Parker that I preferred reds, whites and pinks! He suggested that I try some other colors!

Thanks folks. I will look at that aroma wheel - sounds interesting.

What I have found is that I am starting to distinguish a number of aromatics however, my difficulty lies in naming them. Such is the joy of discovering wine and the learning process that entails.

reschsmooth wrote:Thanks folks. I will look at that aroma wheel - sounds interesting.

What I have found is that I am starting to distinguish a number of aromatics however, my difficulty lies in naming them. Such is the joy of discovering wine and the learning process that entails.

Yes, of course the philosophical question is "How do you describe a smell or a taste other than by reference to itself?"

Though there is technical knowledge and technical language, tasting notes are merely an attempt to do precisely what is referred to in the philosophical question posed above.

Essentially, that means describing the smells and tastes of a particular wine with reference to the tastes and smells of common things, in order to convey to another what the wine smells and tastes like. Of course, conventions have grown up, and habits, in terms of what these descriptors are, and what regions they are associated with.

But, if you simply approach it by rummaging through your own taste and olfactory memorybank to try to describe a wine, you will be fine. Indeed, if you approach it in this fresh way (and of course, do courses, read, and look at wheels to help you, but do not be intimidated or limited by them), you may cause others to think again about what they are tasting and smelling.

There are then levels of inspiration in wine critic's notes which go beyond describing the component elements of the wine and describe the impression that all these elements create. One is further into the subjective with such descriptions, but ultimately, describing the experience of the actual encounter the wine critic has with the wine is to describe the experience on a higher level.

I think most people have the capacity, with tasting experience and thought, to give good and useful assessments of wine, without worrying about whether they are "super-tasters", or have an impaired palate. The limitation is a lack of confidence and opportunity to discuss what they are tasting and smelling. (OK, also colour, but who really cares about this, but that it tells you something about the likely age, condition, taste and smell of the wine?)

orpheus wrote:Essentially, that means describing the smells and tastes of a particular wine with reference to the tastes and smells of common things, in order to convey to another what the wine smells and tastes like. Of course, conventions have grown up, and habits, in terms of what these descriptors are, and what regions they are associated with.

But, if you simply approach it by rummaging through your own taste and olfactory memorybank to try to describe a wine, you will be fine.

Nicely put, Orpheous.

Interestingly, the other day I was tasting a Martinborough pinot noir, and I noted the smell of cigarette smoke on the palate. Ordinarily, almost everyone would suggest this would be a detractor. However, being an 'ex-smoker', occasionally such a smell has pleasantness, which is what I got out of that descriptor.

I certainly find that I know what I am experiencing terms of smells/flavours much more frequently than I can describe them. As in, I will often notice similarities between wines without being able to put into words exactly what the similarity is. This generally leaves me burbling things like "very characteristic" or pulling some term out of thin air to be greeted with puzzled looks from well-meaning cellar door staff. But I know what I mean, honest.

Ironically this is a complete reverse of my professional situation where, as a journalist, I am essentially paid to sound convincing on subjects of which I known virtually nothing.

Oddly this vinous inarticulacy doesn't stop me wanting to talk about wine. I'm either keen to learn or am a dreadful old bore without even the virtue of knowledge.

Loztralia wrote:I certainly find that I know what I am experiencing terms of smells/flavours much more frequently than I can describe them. As in, I will often notice similarities between wines without being able to put into words exactly what the similarity is. This generally leaves me burbling things like "very characteristic" or pulling some term out of thin air to be greeted with puzzled looks from well-meaning cellar door staff. But I know what I mean, honest.

Ironically this is a complete reverse of my professional situation where, as a journalist, I am essentially paid to sound convincing on subjects of which I known virtually nothing.

Oddly this vinous inarticulacy doesn't stop me wanting to talk about wine. I'm either keen to learn or am a dreadful old bore without even the virtue of knowledge.

Mathematically:

Knowledge <= Perception of Knowledge.