The Auswine Forum

Sensational title but not quite correct in all respects. I will note my impressions and humble opinions. The conclusion I will finally draw is we are beaten hands down in only one area.

I spent over a week in the north, split between Condrieu and Hermitage. I had a good look at Cote Rotie and Condrieu, courtesy of the March aux Vin( you buy a tasting glass and drink as much of the new vintage as you like ) and a good look at a few of the key position players of the French top flight shiraz/syrah/cote rotie courtesy of Guigal & Chaouptier's.

A $30 village Condrieu or Cote Rotie costs about $70ish in Australia, the trip to the Rhone for a wine lover well worth the effort.

Cote Rotie versus Australian shiraz-

Cheap village Cote Rotie starts at about $30Aus. I found it a bit hit and miss. Some displayed awful earthy and pooh noses and quite acidic. IMHO in the $30 bracket Australian shiraz hard to beat.

I found the mid range Cote Rotie sublime. Pristine blackberry fruit with good defination, structure and the alluring smokiness testament to the skillful use of oak. $40 to$70ish in the Rhone gets you the good stuff. Probably 50% cheaper than on the international market and a good 30% cheaper than Paris! Smaller producers where my favourites-Vernays, Ogiers as opposed to Guigals and Chapoutiers. IMHO Cote Rotie and Australian shiraz on equal footing in this bracket. The good stuff is to be hunted down amongst the small guys but be discerning with the bigger guys.

The heavy weight/key position Cote Rotie starts in $150 bracket with Chaouptier's La Mordoree right up to the Parker dependant $200-$500 single vineyard La Landonne, Ampuis, La turque, La Mouline etc. I tried the 2000 vintage of the later line up and the 01 of the former. La Mouline was excellent. A wave of flavour and tannin as opposed to heavy punching Ampuis with it's tannin wall! I can't tell much from recently bottled flagships but feel some of ours more approachable in youth-HofG-and more consistant. IMHO the single vineyard status of these wines makes for unfair comparisons with our flagship shiraz.

Australian shiraz versus Hermitage-


The inexpensive Hermitage starts at about $30. Dark and rustic. Not bad. Interesting but hit and miss.

The big fellas-Le Pavillon, L'Ermite from Chaoputier and La Chappelle from Jaboulet start in the $100 plus for the later and $200 for the former. Despite reassurances from the Parker & Wine Spectator influenced American crowd we met, La Chappelle was very good in 00 and pretty poor in some older vintages-especially 92. I would personally put my money into well researched flagship Australian wine here. The big, dark & earthy Chaouptier reds, with dense fruit and chalky tannins were excellent. Due the single vineyard&American demand only, I would put my money into well researched flagship Aussie shiraz.

Australian shiraz versus St Joseph, Gigondas,Cornas- I would suggest it is here where the bargains and interest relative QPR can be found. St Joseph especially-superb stuff. Cornas rustic and norhtern victorian like. Gigondas the benefit of the doubt. Exciting regions of which we have similar.

Australian earth wines/GSM versus Chateauneuf du Pape-where have we gone wrong? Beaucastel, Barbe Rac were outstanding. Had 94's of each aswell as 95's of lessor known. New releases of both the former. Barbe Rac straight grenache superb-no raspiness, hot or overripe sickliness, nor the confectionary plague. Just imagine grenache the way you would want it in perfection-this is Barbe Rac!

I recall having some mature Penfolds Bin label earth wines(?) from the early 90-mid 90's vintages. Supple, complex and balanced. I felt we were on a winner-GSMs flourished. Few have achieved I feel. Nine Popes maybe, Henschke from good vintages of the Johann's. Few others!

Humble opinions from a lover of Australain shiraz and a month in France. We are going well, all bar the GSM!

Worm virus or MidEast censorship signed me out!

Was me who posted.

Meant to add what was the forum members' thoughts on the direction and quality of our earth wine/GSM? Nine Popes, Henschke, Turkey Butchers Block. Can't remember the rest.

Good comments Jamie. I have pretty much given up on Grenache-dominant Australian wines for the reason you mentioned - confectionery and cloying. The French wines as a rule suit my taste better - savoury and better to drink with food.

I have wondered why our wines tend to be like this and have come to the conclusion that over-cropping (easy to do with Grenache and a big temptation) and picking over-ripe might have something to do with it.


regards
Chris

Jamie,

what is it you feel these rhone wines lack in comparison?
- Tannin structure
- Complexity
- Fruit intensity

Cheers
M

Hi Michael

My conclusion, in a sentence, was that the below 30euro bracket Cote Rotie and Hermitage was not good value compared to our shiraz. Important to remember this will correlate to about $70 in Australia (strange as Jasper Hill was cheaper in Hermitage than in Australia).

The mid range Cote Rotie exquisite and as a generalisation of course, Australian shiraz similar in this bracket reference QPR.

Top end Cote Rotie exquisite but due US demand and the single vineyards I would put my money into Australian shiraz reference QPR.

So refernce the 30 euro bracket Cote Rotie-

1- Tannin structure- only the real average cote rotie did not have a wave of fine tannin. I felt those that didn't were quite standout with their acid dominated finish.

2- Complexity-hard to tell in youth and may lead into the fruit intensity issue. Bernaud Bergaug a good case example as I had many of his Cote Rotie in youth aswell as a few aged. When aged I found this bracket of Cote Rotie tended to transform from it's feral, animally youth into an earth(peat smelling) with sour cherry fruit. The tannin structure softned but still with the oomph to carry the finish.

A dab of viognier in youth pleasant, in regard to complexity, although more than 10% seemed to accentuate pepper and spice to distracting levels.

3- Fruit intensity- I felt there was not the depth of fruit in this bracket. The focused dark fruits (predominantly blackberry) that will see more than the tired, earthy(peat) and sour cherry flavoured wine when aged, rarely found in this bracket.

There is no comparison to be made, sadly, with good Chateauneuf du Pape and the GSM/Earth/Grenache wines of Australia. The French, whether blended or straight grenache, are streaks ahead and make special wine.

Good St Joseph is special.

Hermitage was a little more consistant in the lower price range.

Summing up, I felt QPR the French had a way to go in the below 30 euro bracket. Unfairly perhaps, the strong euro does not help.

The 25 euro bracket Australian shiraz equates to the following ( in region purchase for both ) - Craiglee, Bannockburn, Bests, Baily, Dalwhinnie etc etc.