The Auswine Forum

Wayno wrote:I took this to mean wines that wouldn’t necessarily have been expected to last for decades and go on to shine... but did.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:The 1963 Mildara Cabernet may well have been made in relatively large quantities but would it be fair to say it's iconic reputation was established when most bottles had already been consumed.

michel wrote:
I was given a bottle of this as a gift for being best man at a wedding
it was a cracker
I even purchased another bottle from the old Prince Wine Store in Melbourne out of the glass cupboard.
and there in is the question - I have never had an exciting pinot from these guys since.
the Marie Zelie was not my cup of tea .........

Mike Hawkins wrote:

felixp21 wrote:

GraemeG wrote: I liked the 09, but thought the 01 was average, and the 99 weak. The heralded 95 I wasn't impressed with either. The Cullen DM is rather an unclothed emperor for me.
Graeme

post of the year. thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.

I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..

Rossco wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:

felixp21 wrote:
post of the year. thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.

I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..

Well im glad its not just me then!

Ian S wrote:

michel wrote:
I was given a bottle of this as a gift for being best man at a wedding
it was a cracker
I even purchased another bottle from the old Prince Wine Store in Melbourne out of the glass cupboard.
and there in is the question - I have never had an exciting pinot from these guys since.
the Marie Zelie was not my cup of tea .........

and I'm guessing you might know the answer to the question - the departure of Larry McKenna as winemaker directly after this vintage, later to re-appear with his own winery Escarpment.

FWIW nothing I've tasted from Escarpment approaches the structure of the old Martinborough reserve Pinot Noirs, and arguably that's a sensible commercial approach. Not everyone has faith (or understanding) to work out that such wines need to lay down for a decade or two (or three). I always found myself drawn to the 'tightly coiled springs', as cellaring is an important part of the hobby to me. I enjoy being patient and dislike wines being dumbed down in the quest for approachability.

phillisc wrote:As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig

JamieBahrain wrote: Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.

phillisc wrote:As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig

mjs wrote:

phillisc wrote:As I was riding in this morning and being half way through the cellar relocation, there's going to be a lot of wine that is butchered just to 'find' a few unicorns.
I have a number of vintages of a number of top Australian marques in sealed cartons, that are 15-25 years old. Madness yes, poor cellar record keeping absolutely, considerations at 20 years still too early to drink, yes, or just pure speculation or why the hell did I buy that...probably.

So is it worthwhile to just 'forget' about these boxes and hope or consider that 1-2 of them will be unicorns...or what is far more likely that I will never drink them and get a few bob on the secondary market? I see plenty of current evidence of this from three auction houses "1990 wine x 12 bottles from an unopened/original carton"

Just a thought
Cheers
Craig

Craig, ask me around when I’m next in Adelaide and we can make a start opening some of those boxes in search of unicorns
Cheers, Malcolm

Matt@5453 wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote: Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.

brief comments from a wine writer on a recent tasting:

My favourites? The 2015, 2014, 1998 and 2008 all achieved 97 points; the 2016, 2013, 2005 and 1991 all rated 96 points; the 2002 and 1985 rated 95 points, and the 2007, 1999 and 1982 rated 94.

Only nine of the 32 vintages rated below 89, and of these only three were past drinking: 1987, 2011 and 1984, all due to lesser seasons.

So, 23 vintages rated 90 or higher, which is quite outstanding.

mjs wrote:
'96 Penfolds Block42 Kalmina Cabernet Sauvignon (Australia's oldest cabernet grapes, which go into '707 in normal years, so some heritage and X-factor mentioned by Ozzie). Jamie mentioned en magnum earlier, there was a magnum of this Block42 on the bench as part of drinks for a significant birthday a few years ago (along with a magnum of Centenary btw). It was outstanding, albeit just still in the "vinfanticide" age, and I would definitely agree with Jamie's view on the benefits of large format.

Craig(NZ) wrote:

Matt@5453 wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote: Craig I’ve followed you on 98 Coleraine for years and thanks for the update . Still have 10 I think . All bought ex-winery and cellared professionally . Not exactly a scarce wine though possibly not replicated either. Looking forward to trying another soon.

brief comments from a wine writer on a recent tasting:

My favourites? The 2015, 2014, 1998 and 2008 all achieved 97 points; the 2016, 2013, 2005 and 1991 all rated 96 points; the 2002 and 1985 rated 95 points, and the 2007, 1999 and 1982 rated 94.

Only nine of the 32 vintages rated below 89, and of these only three were past drinking: 1987, 2011 and 1984, all due to lesser seasons.

So, 23 vintages rated 90 or higher, which is quite outstanding.

Of the ones I have tried my rankings from decades of drinking the stuff would be:

Top Rank = 1991, 1998, 2005, 2009, (provisionally 2013, 2014, 2015)
Second Rank = 1995, 2007, 2016
Third Rank = 1989, 1990, 1994, 2000, 2002, 2008, 2010
Fourth Rank = 1985, 1987, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2011
Not Made = 1992, 1993, 2012
Not tried = (Supposed to be excellent 1982, 1983), Supposed to be poor (1984, 1986, 1988)

Gary W wrote:On Coleraine -

Te Mata Estate Coleraine Vertical at Rockpool Bar & Grill – August 2018

A wine that pretty much needs no introduction, and for me, probably New Zealand’s greatest red wine. It was also a (unexpected) pleasure to have Campbell sitting alongside me for the tasting, so maybe he’ll chime in with his thoughts. This was a complete vertical of all Coleraine produced to date, with wines purchased as a set at auction by Air New Zealand, and presented as part of their fine wine program. A world first, I believe. Hats off.

1982 – Autumnal, some charred stick bottle age stuff, blackcurrant and cigar box., and a lovely perfume of flowers. Mid-weight at best, holding sweet raspberry and blackcurrant, tannin is fine and refined, almost chocolate on the finish, which is very fine. Wonderful. Classic. All of that. Beautiful now, but still no hurry. 95 points

1983 – Beefy, a bit blocky and tannic, raspberry and bonox, drying out a bit, with a bloody finish that’s grippy, but holding bold fruit. It’s ok. It’s not cohesive, but not bad in itself. 90 points

1984 – Some mulchy vegetal stuff, drying, beefy, and not so much charm, though it’s a drink. 87 points

1985 -A little smoky, darker fruit, almost into liquorice, tannin has grip and grain, and while it’s a bit blocky and developed, it has a pleasing sense of earth/mineral stuff. Finish is tannic, but ripe and the fruit swells along. 92 points

1986 – Dark chocolate, bit of turkish delight even, kind of mulchy but good with it. Has a slight chlorine taste too it, which is kind of off-putting, grainy tannin and rare beef to close. It’s ok. 89 points

1987 – Redcurrant, floral, bit of cigar box and dried herb, almost a Campari sort of thing going on here. Lovely juicy fruit, and plenty of it, fine acidity, pushes through and goes pretty long. Charmer. Looking great! 94 points

1988 – Red fruit, a bit of beef, a little dry and blocky, some green and tang through it, tannin a bit dry on the finish. but a pretty good wine here. 90 points

1989 – Earthy and mineral character, dark fruit, little sweet blackcurrant, for sure, some dried herb, a bit chunky on the finish, and showing oak tannin, I think. 88-89 points

1990 – Beefy, dried out and acid a bit pokey. Not great. 86 points

1991 – Blackberry, blackcurrant, cedar, and cigar. Rich fruit, bit drying, but a good core of fruit it must have once had. 90 points

1994 – Plum, spice, pencils, deeper style, almost into liquorice. Medium-bodied, rich almost choc-liquorice, grainy tannin through it but well settled and ripe, a bit like a Pomerol, good finish. 94-95 points.

1995 – Violet, perfumed, black fruits, nice face shame about the legs, tannin is gritty and dry, lacks flow, but tasty. Spicy oak tannin on the back. Good, mind you. 90-91 points

1996 – Redcurrant, dried herb, a little edgy and dilute, but has energy, little whip of tannin, and a dry finish. Has charm. 90 points

1997 – Beefy, drying, too flat and developed, but OK. 87 points

1998 – Very pretty, red and black fruits, still holding good fruit, fleshy and plump, tannin is firm but settled into the wine. Finish is good too. This is very nice. 93 points

1999 – Perfume, cedar, red and black fruits. A bit spicy, but mainly red fruited, and quite sweet too, lovely sarsparilla character, firm tannin, but not drying. Looks good to me, quite a different style but so lovely. 93ish points

2000 – A more mineral style, with cedar and pencils, much darker and riper fruit, blackberry and blackcurrant, again a sarsaparilla thing going on. Tannin is a bit chunky, perhaps, but the finish is dark, slightly smoky and long. Really good too. 93 -94 points

2001 – Drying, some greenness to tannin, chunky and also perhaps a bit warm. A bit of beef, dark raspberry, Tannin drags on finish with some smoky oak. Nice though. I’d go it. 91 points

2002 – More violet and red fruits, a pretty style, but with depth, lovely fine tannin, red fruits and succulence, really like the little herbal thing going on, but with ripeness. Beautiful wine. 94 points

2003 – Bold, dark fruit, grainy and chunky, tannin a bit obtuse, but a good finish. Rugged. 90-91 points

2004 – Pencil, chocolate, violet, black fruit. Medium bodied, dense and dark fruited, a subtle char to it, a little chunky, but good with the tannin dragging a bit on the finish. Good wine mind. Savoury. 91-92 points

2005 – Blackcurrant. blueberry, cedar, iron sort of thing. Acidity is a bit perky, grip of furry tannin,. holding deep fruit, and the finish is pretty good. Much like the 2004 in a way. 92 points

2006 – A bit more into red fruits, more bony and lighter bodied, a herbal play through it, slightly tough and green in tannin, but really like the finish. Let’s see. 91+ points

2007 – Ripe, blackberry, blackcurrant, almost into dark chocolate, some spice and earth. Full bodied, delicious sweep of tannin, mineral and earthy fruit, has intensity and vigour and a very long finish. This is a step up. 95 points

2008 – Ripe, perfumed, liquorice, stony. Full bodied, but kind of tense, with a flood of black and blue fruits, almost seems raw and fruity, and very young. Here’s a wine with some upside. 94+ points

2009 -Big, chocolate, dark fruits and plum. Plump and plummy, so succulent and ripe, dark chocolate and melting tannin, powerful and very long. What a thing. Fantastic. So young. 95-96 points

2010 – Slight leafiness and redcurrant, but a core of dark fruit too, mocha set with rosemary and perfume, good tannins, but a slight grip and not full ripeness, then a long and firm finish. Very good, but not quite up to the pace set by 2009. 94 points

2011 – A lighter vintage, red fruits and lightness, not the depth, but a good amount of charm here. It seems almost unresolved as at now, but the freshness is excellent. Lovely perfume and energy. but it needs some time I’d say. 93+ or maybe more points.

2013 – Here we go. So dense and minerally with graphite tannin, mouth-perfume, impeccable balance, deep and rolling, with a superb finish. Could be immortal. 97 points

2014 – Pencil, deep, dark fruit, superb, great tannin, inner mouth-perfume, melting and long. Absolutely incredible. 96-97 points

2015 – Blackcurrant and raspberry, slight herbal play, but ripe. Has grip and grain, succulent and primary fruit, Graphite tannin, richness, that little drag of herb and cedar on the finish, with some black olive in the mix. It’s wonderful. 95-96 points

2016 – Seamless, on point with redcurrant, raspberry, superb tannin and energy, very fine acidity, superb length. A wine of clarity and presence, and so so good. 97 points

Craig(NZ) wrote:

Gary W wrote:On Coleraine -

Te Mata Estate Coleraine Vertical at Rockpool Bar & Grill – August 2018

A wine that pretty much needs no introduction, and for me, probably New Zealand’s greatest red wine. It was also a (unexpected) pleasure to have Campbell sitting alongside me for the tasting, so maybe he’ll chime in with his thoughts. This was a complete vertical of all Coleraine produced to date, with wines purchased as a set at auction by Air New Zealand, and presented as part of their fine wine program. A world first, I believe. Hats off.

1982 – Autumnal, some charred stick bottle age stuff, blackcurrant and cigar box., and a lovely perfume of flowers. Mid-weight at best, holding sweet raspberry and blackcurrant, tannin is fine and refined, almost chocolate on the finish, which is very fine. Wonderful. Classic. All of that. Beautiful now, but still no hurry. 95 points

1983 – Beefy, a bit blocky and tannic, raspberry and bonox, drying out a bit, with a bloody finish that’s grippy, but holding bold fruit. It’s ok. It’s not cohesive, but not bad in itself. 90 points

1984 – Some mulchy vegetal stuff, drying, beefy, and not so much charm, though it’s a drink. 87 points

1985 -A little smoky, darker fruit, almost into liquorice, tannin has grip and grain, and while it’s a bit blocky and developed, it has a pleasing sense of earth/mineral stuff. Finish is tannic, but ripe and the fruit swells along. 92 points

1986 – Dark chocolate, bit of turkish delight even, kind of mulchy but good with it. Has a slight chlorine taste too it, which is kind of off-putting, grainy tannin and rare beef to close. It’s ok. 89 points

1987 – Redcurrant, floral, bit of cigar box and dried herb, almost a Campari sort of thing going on here. Lovely juicy fruit, and plenty of it, fine acidity, pushes through and goes pretty long. Charmer. Looking great! 94 points

1988 – Red fruit, a bit of beef, a little dry and blocky, some green and tang through it, tannin a bit dry on the finish. but a pretty good wine here. 90 points

1989 – Earthy and mineral character, dark fruit, little sweet blackcurrant, for sure, some dried herb, a bit chunky on the finish, and showing oak tannin, I think. 88-89 points

1990 – Beefy, dried out and acid a bit pokey. Not great. 86 points

1991 – Blackberry, blackcurrant, cedar, and cigar. Rich fruit, bit drying, but a good core of fruit it must have once had. 90 points

1994 – Plum, spice, pencils, deeper style, almost into liquorice. Medium-bodied, rich almost choc-liquorice, grainy tannin through it but well settled and ripe, a bit like a Pomerol, good finish. 94-95 points.

1995 – Violet, perfumed, black fruits, nice face shame about the legs, tannin is gritty and dry, lacks flow, but tasty. Spicy oak tannin on the back. Good, mind you. 90-91 points

1996 – Redcurrant, dried herb, a little edgy and dilute, but has energy, little whip of tannin, and a dry finish. Has charm. 90 points

1997 – Beefy, drying, too flat and developed, but OK. 87 points

1998 – Very pretty, red and black fruits, still holding good fruit, fleshy and plump, tannin is firm but settled into the wine. Finish is good too. This is very nice. 93 points

1999 – Perfume, cedar, red and black fruits. A bit spicy, but mainly red fruited, and quite sweet too, lovely sarsparilla character, firm tannin, but not drying. Looks good to me, quite a different style but so lovely. 93ish points

2000 – A more mineral style, with cedar and pencils, much darker and riper fruit, blackberry and blackcurrant, again a sarsaparilla thing going on. Tannin is a bit chunky, perhaps, but the finish is dark, slightly smoky and long. Really good too. 93 -94 points

2001 – Drying, some greenness to tannin, chunky and also perhaps a bit warm. A bit of beef, dark raspberry, Tannin drags on finish with some smoky oak. Nice though. I’d go it. 91 points

2002 – More violet and red fruits, a pretty style, but with depth, lovely fine tannin, red fruits and succulence, really like the little herbal thing going on, but with ripeness. Beautiful wine. 94 points

2003 – Bold, dark fruit, grainy and chunky, tannin a bit obtuse, but a good finish. Rugged. 90-91 points

2004 – Pencil, chocolate, violet, black fruit. Medium bodied, dense and dark fruited, a subtle char to it, a little chunky, but good with the tannin dragging a bit on the finish. Good wine mind. Savoury. 91-92 points

2005 – Blackcurrant. blueberry, cedar, iron sort of thing. Acidity is a bit perky, grip of furry tannin,. holding deep fruit, and the finish is pretty good. Much like the 2004 in a way. 92 points

2006 – A bit more into red fruits, more bony and lighter bodied, a herbal play through it, slightly tough and green in tannin, but really like the finish. Let’s see. 91+ points

2007 – Ripe, blackberry, blackcurrant, almost into dark chocolate, some spice and earth. Full bodied, delicious sweep of tannin, mineral and earthy fruit, has intensity and vigour and a very long finish. This is a step up. 95 points

2008 – Ripe, perfumed, liquorice, stony. Full bodied, but kind of tense, with a flood of black and blue fruits, almost seems raw and fruity, and very young. Here’s a wine with some upside. 94+ points

2009 -Big, chocolate, dark fruits and plum. Plump and plummy, so succulent and ripe, dark chocolate and melting tannin, powerful and very long. What a thing. Fantastic. So young. 95-96 points

2010 – Slight leafiness and redcurrant, but a core of dark fruit too, mocha set with rosemary and perfume, good tannins, but a slight grip and not full ripeness, then a long and firm finish. Very good, but not quite up to the pace set by 2009. 94 points

2011 – A lighter vintage, red fruits and lightness, not the depth, but a good amount of charm here. It seems almost unresolved as at now, but the freshness is excellent. Lovely perfume and energy. but it needs some time I’d say. 93+ or maybe more points.

2013 – Here we go. So dense and minerally with graphite tannin, mouth-perfume, impeccable balance, deep and rolling, with a superb finish. Could be immortal. 97 points

2014 – Pencil, deep, dark fruit, superb, great tannin, inner mouth-perfume, melting and long. Absolutely incredible. 96-97 points

2015 – Blackcurrant and raspberry, slight herbal play, but ripe. Has grip and grain, succulent and primary fruit, Graphite tannin, richness, that little drag of herb and cedar on the finish, with some black olive in the mix. It’s wonderful. 95-96 points

2016 – Seamless, on point with redcurrant, raspberry, superb tannin and energy, very fine acidity, superb length. A wine of clarity and presence, and so so good. 97 points

A thing I have noted re write ups of vertical tastings for years and years and years wherever I look is a bias towards the younger wines. On average one could conclude it's a waste of time cellaring wines!!

I'd basically agree with you with your analysis of 2000 onward. Before that bottle variation/ natural decline would definitely come in to play and my rankings would be comparing the vintages at their peak. Notably the 1991 is absolutely considered one of the classics. I have had many magical experiences with that vintage but most bottles now would be on the decline (though I would be prepared to bet not all!). Unfortunately the last bottle I had the opportunity to drink a couple of years ago was terribly corked

Theporkrail wrote: ... Standish "The Standish" 2012 is to me the epitome of this discussion, grapes from a vineyard he only got once (although he may have access to it again with the Lamella in recent years), just a one off of a wine that is just a level above the outstanding.

Gary W wrote:The young wines are most often better, and in the case of Coleraine, aside freak 82 first crop, a golden era starting around 2007-> and really stepping up from there. Winemakers agree...