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Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:09 pm
by winetastic
Just pulled the trigger on x6 Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo 2014, will throw up some impressions as soon as it arrives.

As an aside, was on a harbour cruise for a mates bucks day last weekend, it was a case of BYO gentlemanly beverage so initially I thought I would go with a crowd pleasing McLaren Vale red (2005 Marius Symphony Shiraz) - double decanted prior to leaving and poured a taste... ugh, Nebbiolo has ruined me because this top shelf shiraz just tasted of vanilla, oak and alcohol now. I had really enjoyed 4 bottles previously, its surprising how quickly your palate preferences can shift.

Left the bottle of Marius for my better half and ran out the door with a Brezza Langhe Nebbiolo 2012, which even consumed from a large plastic beer cup was superb, so fresh and vibrant.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:53 pm
by Chris H
Welcome to the dark side.....mwahahahhaha :)

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:55 pm
by swirler
winetastic wrote:Just pulled the trigger on x6 Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo 2014, will throw up some impressions as soon as it arrives.

As an aside, was on a harbour cruise for a mates bucks day last weekend, it was a case of BYO gentlemanly beverage so initially I thought I would go with a crowd pleasing McLaren Vale red (2005 Marius Symphony Shiraz) - double decanted prior to leaving and poured a taste... ugh, Nebbiolo has ruined me because this top shelf shiraz just tasted of vanilla, oak and alcohol now. I had really enjoyed 4 bottles previously, its surprising how quickly your palate preferences can shift.

Left the bottle of Marius for my better half and ran out the door with a Brezza Langhe Nebbiolo 2012, which even consumed from a large plastic beer cup was superb, so fresh and vibrant.


Welcome to the world of wine. A great journey awaits...

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:03 pm
by JamieBahrain
For Marcarini, they do age well, whether La Serra or Brunate. Yes Brunate is generally viewed as the more structured, less perfumed wine, but La Serra will still last very well. Personally I seem to prefer Brunate, but that may be as much idealogical as sensory - I like cellaring wine and I value those built for that task. I would buy a 20-30 year old La Serra with confidence, and a Brunate from the same year with fractionally more confidence.


Hi Ian,

Great to have you in our little corner of the world with such valued contributions.

With the marketing of Piedmont and a new wave of wine critics and commentators riding the coat tails with ridiculous scoring and throw lines that are not always based on high levies of experience, I've said it before on this forum and others that the experienced Piedmont drinkers have a wealth of useful anecdotes. And the cellaring potential of LA Morra my case in point.

with me generally preferring much longer ageing.


I'm definitely happy to look at a lot of B&B in the adolescent stage and find I quite enjoy the wines. The market for very old Barolo is drying up and window sills from Milan to Turin are being cleared of their old Barolo bottles with predictable results!

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:11 pm
by JamieBahrain
I was really peeved with a 60% failure rate at a recent Barolo dinner. It's done I think. The good cellars are being hunted down and there's a lot of badly stored gear out there. One of our tasters caters for high end fine wine dinners and he is instant we give up on old Barolo dinners now- though he recently hosted an amazing Monfortino experience back to the 40's from a great cellar.

There were a few great old bottles here but I left my notes behind so for visuals only. Old Cavallotto & Serafino.

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Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:31 pm
by Chris H
Yep, spot on Jamie. I had a laugh at the unfortunate truth of your comment :

window sills from Milan to Turin are being cleared of their old Barolo bottles with predictable results!


We had a few older Piedmont dinners last year and the failure rate of wines was pretty high. Can really only cellar stuff and wait. Thankfully B&B wines nowadays have better fruit retention than the old days and are approachable earlier.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:41 pm
by Chris H
So many bottles continue to be stored upright in Enoteca's too so buying older bottles from Italy will still be a problem in the future.


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Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:44 pm
by winetastic
Some interesting discussion on decanting, with a large section devoted to aged Nebbiolo:
http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=120801

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:28 pm
by Chris H
Thnaks for that, a lot of information and opinions.

Most of the old bottles I have had that we considered stuffed were aldehydic from the start. No amount of decanting will fix an oxidised wine though.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:08 pm
by winetastic
After many delays on the delivery, I received my 2012 Cigliuti Langhe Nebbiolos and cracked a bottle last night.

It was hard to nail down a tasting note as the wine was constantly shifting and evolving in the glass, it opened up with a fair whack of mushroom which faded after 30min or so in the decanter, from there it was all rose petals, new leather, red cherry and fennel on the nose, a bright and refreshing palette with a lovely clean minerally finish. For the first 3 hours there was just a lick of silky tannins there, but eventually the structure really asserted itself - this is more serious that you expect from a Langhe Neb. Fruit wise it ranged from tart red cherry and orange peel at first, right through to being quite rich blackberry after a couple of hours.

Words cannot describe how happy I am to have 16 more bottles, would happily pay up to $40 for this if I had to. A game changer at the entry level.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:12 pm
by winetastic
And regarding the pitfalls of auction purchases without really knowing the producer, Mauro Vegilo Barolo 2004 - modernist in the worst possible sense, opened up with sickly sweet oak and rose water, after breathing it could be any generic red wine from the new world, jammy fruit, loads of cedar oak, overextracted and lacking any sense of perfume, alcohol sticks out as well, anyone want the second bottle? :P

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 pm
by Chris H
Yep, way too much oak input for me. He modelled the style on Altare so avoid that one too if you dislike Veglio.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:24 am
by Ian S
Chris
I know many look the same, but is the photo from a wine shop on Via Cavour in Alba? It looks familiar.

WRT standing upright, there is a strand of opinion in Italy, that standing bottles up is fine, that the humidity inside the bottle is more than enough to keep the cork moist. I'm no scientist so can't argue one way or the other, but at least by laying bottles down, you can see a 'leaker' and identify it for earlier drinking.

Murray
For ages I struggled to find drinkable nebbiolo d'Alba / Langhe nebbiolo. They were either simple rustic quaffers or felt like the unwanted cast-offs from the grand wines. Just recently though, there have been loads of good ones. Indeed I'm drinking the one mentioned up-thread and it has a very enticing cherry / maraschino cherry / figgy / violet nose with just a hint of vanilla in the background. Light on the palate but really opens up on the finish. Nice tangy acidity and with light tannins. For £10 a bottle it's been a dream.

regards
Ian

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:50 pm
by Chris H
Probably is in Alba Ian. As you intimated, it is pretty similar everywhere, hence in my view the number of oxidised older bottles you get. The humudity argument is not one I have heard before - sounds like a load of bunkum. I can clearly remember a problem with two oxidised, not that old Barolo's in row in a restaurant in La Morra. When I accompanied the Sommelier downstairs into the cellar to get another one, I couldn't believe most of the wines were in their original boxes, standing up !

There are plenty of good Langhe now. It now gets better attention paid to it and the winemaking overall is now much better. The Benevelli Gavin mentions in the top thread on the board is a good example. Their 2014 Barolo was all declassified into the Langhe as I understand.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:24 pm
by Ian S
Chris
The other common problem in Italy has been the sweltering temperatures of some of the shops. Casa del Barolo (via Andrea Dora, 7 IIRC) was a prime culprit, and it was generally uncomfortably warm / humid in the shop - even downstairs where the really old wines resided (with newer release wines). Indeed one sensed they viewed the old 1950s-1970s wines as being there for decoration, as there isn't the same level of demand for older wines (it seems 'birth year wines' are the big driver for aged wine, rather than the same sort of joy in antique wines that is more common in the UK). I haven't been in for a few years, so maybe they've done something about it now.

I recall going to the Sunday market outside the Chiesa Gran Madre di Dio (wedding scene in the Italian Job original movie), and amongst all the other bric-a-brac was a bottle of 1966 Borgogno Barolo. For a moment I was tempted, but a moment's reflection made me think it may be getting some rough treatment (including sat in the Autumnal sun). A shame as we've had great 1961 and 1971 Borgogno Riservas (but also a very faded 1962 and fading 1961). All 'original release' rather than the more expensive / reconditioned (topped up) library releases from the winery.

regards
Ian

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:59 pm
by Mark Carrington
Produttori del Barbaresco provides outstanding VFM across their Barbaresco.
Just purchased a half case each of Elvio Cogno's Ravera '10 &'11 after the hype for Barolo in both vintages. My favourite affordable producer.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:55 pm
by JamieBahrain
2005 Fratelli Brovia Barolo Garblèt Sué- 2005 is presenting great Barolo drinking at the moment though some of the more serious wines are opening up and shutting down, then opening up to something completely different to the first glass.

Popped and poured into a Zalto Burgundy glass with some impatience as a recent shipment just arrived of over a dozen different Piedmont wines. Emanating from the glass, immediately, was a classic floral nebbiolo perfume, a swirl and there's darker and deeper notes of licorice, dark cherry and tar, followed by tobacco and a charge of minerality. Just wonderful and an aromatic Alpine freshness of menthol and more florals completes.

Up front on palate with rich plum and tobacco derived fruit with a welcome earthiness, prior a mid-palate austerity and that mountain breeze rides a long finish with long and rusty tannins. Should surprise many in 5 years +


Garblèt Sué is in Castiglione Falletto and part of the little known cru of Altessano/Fiasco perched between the more famous Monprivato & Villero. Worth hunting their wines down, not just the superb Ca Mia, Rocche and Villero, I have enjoyed their ageworthy Dolcetto & Barbera too.

92pts+









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Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:46 am
by JamieBahrain
2011 Produttori del Barbaresco- Kaleidoscope of near ultra-ripe dark cherries and plums with a high toned violet sweetness. Next day the aromatics settle with florals and other delicates. The palate starts out New World like and again, there's next day improvement, where plump ripe fruit on the forward palate broadens with an intermediate, classic austerity and the tannins harden, and the day one clipped-finish seems to lengthen.

I'm happy with the wine to present to New World drinkers, though unusually, it is not for a mid or long term position in the cellar- that space is for the stunning 2010 of which I should order another case of !

90pts


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Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:27 am
by Ian S
An interesting and nicely balanced mix of Piemontese wines came up at the Nottingham wine tasting group recently. A timely reminder that Cavallotto do such good wines right across the range.

Just remove the brackets to get the link (as Tom doesn't like people linking offsite from Wine Pages, it seems fair to not do the reverse in this case)
(www.)wine-pages.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=043949

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:57 am
by swirler
Ian S wrote:Cavallotto do such good wines right across the range.


Yes, the Langhe nebb is great. But it's bloody expensive, too. :shock:

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:57 am
by JamieBahrain
No joy with the thread link ! Wine pages denies access.

Yes, Cavallotto make superb wines ( had them back to the 50's and many WOTN in good bottles ). Not too badly priced relatively speaking. I bought a few cases of riservas at cellar door and less expensive than well marketed cantinas such as Vietti.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:49 am
by swirler
$60 here :shock: You can get some serious Barolo for that price at auction.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:57 pm
by Chris H
Link doesn't work for me either Ian. Maybe copy and paste ?

Jamie, finally had a 2010 Produttori. Lovely elegant wine. Different kettle of fish to the 2011, an "Americano" vintage for PdB perhaps.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:46 pm
by Ian S
Ok I'm sure Andy Leslie (the person whose notes they are) won't mind


Tasting at Notingham Wine Circle this week, I chose a selection of (mostly) new releases and young drinkers from (bar one) Piedmont.


Dolcetto

Ceretto, Dolcetto d’Alba, Rossana, 2013.
Translucent but deep garnet colour. Underwhelming nose, darkly fruited, some savoury tones. Palate is better, nice crunchy red fruit, good balance, nothing jammy or sweet here, good acid cut, very drinkable but not a stand out.

G.D. Vajra, Dolcetto d’Alba, Coste & Fossati, 2013.
Colour of this is atypical - very dark opaque purple; looks like Cabernet! Nose very dense and ungiving, tight, darkly fruited, just a hint of volatile lift. The palate offers wallops of everything - tannins hit first, heaps of lush red fruit, sour cherry fruit, hint of sweetness, bit of savoury greenery. Something of a fruit bomb style, but drinkable enough

Roagna, Dolcetto d'Alba, 2013.
Very pale translucent purple. Very appealing vivacious nose which is both brightly alive with fruit and touched with savoury complexity. Stems? Palate is similarly direct in its appeal, forward loganberry and mulberry fruit with zippy upfront acidity, mouthwatering, lovely balance. I love this. Great example of what I like in Dolcetto. Very light on its feet, where the Vajra was heavy-footed in comparison.

Massolino, Dolcetto d'Alba, 2013.
Almost opaque purple. Very engaging and appealing nose, very direct, maybe the first to lean in the gamay direction, which I'm inclined to steer away from. Maceration carbonique? Palate has textured tannins but the method overruns the wine here, for me.


Cavallotto, Dolcetto d’Alba, Vigna Scot, 2013.
Quite dark, but translucent. Very savoury nose, deep and interesting, but with lovely floral aromatic lift, this has real class and style without being overworked. Lovely woodsy undergrowth notes, plenty of deep red fruit. Palate has velvet texture, broad and deep red fruit, lovely balance in a wine that has wears its fruit weight and texture lightly and with grace. Serious in that it's not a simple wine, but mostly just hugely enjoyable.

The Dolcettos were really interesting to put up next to each other. Such differences in style were evident. Cavallotto & Roagna the pick of the bunch for me & most of the group but there was pleasurable drinking in all, tho’ the Ceretto was the least of the five.


Nebbiolo

Ar.Pe.Pe. Rosso di Valtellina, 2013.
Translucent orange red. First impressions on the nose are white and black pepper smells, some delicate strawberry notes, maybe some dried red fruits too. All very gentle and delicate, charming. Palate is mid-weight, soft textured with some charm. Nice balance of red fruit and acidity, good length, nice sourness to the fruit. Very deftly made, deals well with the inherent austerity of Valtellinese wine to make something very typical and drinkable. Mch liked by the group too.

Poderi Luigi Einaudi, Langhe Nebbiolo, 2013.
Translucent plummy red. Clean red fruit nose, quite simple and lacking in evident typicity though there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Palate has some rough edged texture, slightly bubblegummy red fruit, hint of sweetness, black pepper. Tannins are present, fine, soft. This is ok, a quaffer, maybe lightly chilled at lunchtime.

Ceretto, Nebbiolo d’Alba, Bernardina 2013
Translucent orange red. Nose has some warmth though seems inexpressive and lacking in depth. Clean and pure, some savoury and peppery notes, whiff of volatility, but mostly just rather dull. Palate more on the money with expressive crunchy textured black fruit, racy acidity, soft fine tannin, good texture and length. Juicy fruit. Good, very drinkable.

Sottimano, Langhe Nebbiolo 2013
Quite a deep plummy red, but still translucent. Bright red fruit nose, cherries, redcurrants, strawberries, dash of white pepper. This has some darker notes in the fruit cake end of the spectrum too, dried fruits, raisins. The balance of the lighter and darker notes makes for a complex and enjoyable nose. The palate, in contrast, starts off as a wall of tannin! Mouth-suckingly drying! Hard to see past, really. I'm not convinced there's the fruit weight to outlast the tannins, so not sure where this is going.


Cascina Ballarin, Langhe Nebbiolo 2012
Translucent and more orange than red! Interestingly complex and even partially evolved nose. Just the beginnings of some feral meaty notes add interest and complexity. Welcome appearance for orange peel smells too! All quite delicate. Lilting red fruit smells too. Palate has lovely weight, balance and texture. Juicy fruit, lip smacking, mouth watering. Has finely textured tannins, velvet texture overall, lovely balance. Really like this, the first that seems to me to be a glimpse of the interest in the village wines. Will keep and evolve for a few years too. Much liked by the group for its approachability.

Massolino, Langhe Nebbiolo 2013
Tinge of orange to the translucent plummy red. Vivacious nose! Whole cluster? Bright red fruits, tea bread, spicy, but maybe a little one dimensional. Palate is also red fruit dominated, simple, clean, bright, soft. Just a touch of welcome abrasive texture on the finish adds interest. Nice balance, quite refreshing.

Cavallotto, Langhe Nebbiolo 2012
Dark translucent red, hint of brown. Really gorgeous nose, ethereally textured and layered, some floral notes emerging here, dried flowers, potpourri, dense red and black fruit, tar, tea bread, all really complex and inviting. Spicy pepper notes here too. Nose is way ahead of anything else so far. Well structured palate, black fruits to the fore, granular tannins, acidity nicely poised, very long, savoury, really delicious. Love this. Drink, but keeping should yield benefits too!

Produttori del Barbaresco, Barbaresco 2010
Dark translucent red, hint of brown. Densely textured and layered nose here too, dark fruits, pepper more black than white. Tightly packed and just whiffs of delicate floral notes escaping. Violets. More to come with time? Palate has a good whack of drying tannins but also heaps of black fruit and acidity to see it all evolve together nicely. Good, but not great.

Vietti, Barolo Rocche 1993
This bottle a kind gesture from a wine merchant saying sorry for a set of mishaps that befell some orders and deliveries. Translucent brown colour. Nose is mature and fully evolved. Very savoury, lots of meaty stockpot gravy marmite smells. Palate has evolved through as well, tannins just a ghostly presence, very earthy and meaty, tomato, nice balance, really very long, great acid structure still. Satin texture, intensely savoury, not at all tired, delicious mature drinking but no need to keep any longer.


The Cavallotto Nebbiolo and the Produttori wine were a really interesting pair. The Cavallotto was, for me and for many in the group, the superior wine, both now and for the future. Better balanced, better crafted for structure, clearer definition. I know it’s a heresy, but I can find the Produttori wines hard to love on occasion, and this was one of those.

Ballarin were a new name to me, but we all really liked their wine. Anyone know any more about them?


To finish

Vietti, Moscato d'Asti, Cascinetta 2014
Lovely! A perfect glass of refreshing moscato to finish. Just what we needed.


Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:32 pm
by Chris H
Thanks for those notes Ian. Haven't had many of those Langhe's (and life is too short to drink Dolcetto :lol:)

That Produttori was nothing like the one I had - light to mid depth of colour and red fruits not black. Don't reckon that bottle was right.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:46 pm
by Chris H
Had a dinner at a great Italian restaurant in Melbourne called Scopri, to take advantage of white truffle season.


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1990 Gaja Barbaresco
Deep red. Complex aromas of dark fruits, oak, truffles and leather. Powerful earthy dark fruits to taste, and well balanced. In great condition, this could go for years.

1997 Gaja Barbaresco Sori San Lorenzo
Deep colour. Perfumed oak and fruit lead into a palate where the oak is noticeable, but there is more than enough quality fruit to match the oak. Lighter and brighter than the 1990, a vintage difference.

1997 Bruno Giacosa Barbaresco Asili
Light-medium red colour. Lifted red fruits on the nose with supporting acts of leather and tobacco. Ethereal lovely wine that glides on the palate.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:12 pm
by winetastic
winetastic wrote:Just pulled the trigger on x6 Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo 2014, will throw up some impressions as soon as it arrives.


I have some notes to write up properly at a later date, however I would not be rushing to your retailer to buy this particular vintage, overall it was rather simple and came up short on both length and interest. Of course the cork seal may have been at play, though I didn't notice any obvious faults.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:43 am
by TommyB
Not quite on point but I have been getting into a bit of Aglianco del Vulture lately. Really interesting stuff and I would recommend it for those of you that like red on the more intense end of the spectrum.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:29 am
by Hacker
winetastic wrote:
winetastic wrote:Just pulled the trigger on x6 Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo 2014, will throw up some impressions as soon as it arrives.


I have some notes to write up properly at a later date, however I would not be rushing to your retailer to buy this particular vintage, overall it was rather simple and came up short on both length and interest. Of course the cork seal may have been at play, though I didn't notice any obvious faults.

This thread is not my level of expertise (which thread is!) but we have had three of these so far from a dozen, and the family has been most impressed. Lightish with balanced acid and lovely fruit structure. Price is right at $30. Very happy.

Re: The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:50 am
by winetastic
Hacker wrote:This thread is not my level of expertise (which thread is!) but we have had three of these so far from a dozen, and the family has been most impressed. Lightish with balanced acid and lovely fruit structure. Price is right at $30. Very happy.


Hopefully just an off bottle for me then...

Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo 2014
Opened up with loads of strawberries and a whack of VA, after an hour or so in the decanter the aromas shifted to black cherry, sweet perfume and spices. On the palate it was mostly tart cranberry but lacks the complexity and interest of the 2013. A refreshing but boring table wine, needs food.

My partner chose to drink a $20 sparkling made from sauv blanc instead, read into that what you will :P