The Auswine Forum

Ugh that's pretty shit Tim!

Just at station are early birds at the restaurant or a pub?

So did you miss much Tim?

Having obviously just wanted to make a dramatic entrance, Tim missed the first two wines but caught up and all was good.

Great night as usual. Hadn't been to Rocket before, easy location, good room, very good service. Thought the food was solid without being special. Thanks as always for the generosity everyone. I know it may sometimes sound like a bit of a broken record but seriously it is great to be able to share such great and interesting wines. Was also good to meet a few new people as well as a bunch of the regular crew.

Final list of wines, with the exception of the port and sherry, was

2004 Bollonger la Grand Annee

1996 Rockford Riesling

1997 Weingut Dr. Crusius Schloßböckelheimer Felsenberg Riesling Spatlese

1992 Mt Edelstone

1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec

1998 Wendouree Shiraz

1996 Mt Edelstone

1995 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro

2003 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro

2003 Rockford Basket Press

06 Mt Edelstone

05 Rockford Basket Press

09 Mt Edelstone

2010 Rockford Basket Press

08 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro

00 Maurice O'Shea Shiraz

2011 Marius ?

I thought the 92 Mt Ed was a clear pick for my WOTN but also quite enjoyed the 1996 and 06, as well as the German Riesling. The 91 Wendouree was good with plenty of time in the glass, the 09 a totally different style of wine, much more approachable and just like every classic Wendouree trait had been turned down in volume by half. Good for some people but it takes away a lot of the character for mine. The BP's were good with the 05 bring the pick for me and the 03 seemed a little sweet and porty, maybe in part because it is stylistically quite different to the other wines. I really liked the Maurife O'Shea and it was a nice change up in style and weight.

A good night and with a fair bit of spitting was still in decent form for BBQ duty at son's footy at 8am this morning!

Yep, a great night as always, even if I was an hour late thanks to some random train dramas.

The Bollinger I only got a small taste of, but felt pretty good, nice cut of acid. The two Rieslings were rather good too, the Rockford showed really well for my tastes, even had some Mosel quality in its freshness. The 97 Crusius was a treat (thanks maybs), in a lovely transition zone of youthful juicy fruit and some aged characters. Clean and pure.

Now onto the theme...

Wendouree - It's still hard for me to properly define the entity that is Wendouree. I think Hacker and I were in agreement that they have a frustratingly elusive quality where you've had a couple of truly great ones and yet the search for more is mostly in vain and too full of disappointments. Also of note is how the 09 last night (and some 10, 11 and 12's I've had) are such different wines to the 90's and early 00's styles, so much more 'modern' and easier to find some enjoyment from, albeit while lacking some overall excitement. They say the 13's are a return to previous form, will be interesting to see, could well be a big positive. The 90's and early 00's I've had at various offlines and via friends (around 20 of them now) have generally shown a reluctance to impress. They have a stubborn side which demands massive cellaring time and/or massive decanting time, and even then they are wines that could be described as being difficult or at least an acquired taste. They certainly didn't make any new fans last night, although there was some interest on offer.

Rockford - I hate to say it, but I'm generally losing the BP vibe. I'll never say it's a bad wine, but I consistently find it quite monodimensional, lacking any real nuance or complexity. I described it as a man-made halfcircle canal with water flowing down smoothly and effortlessly, while what I'm really looking for is some river turbulence caused by rocks and variations! It certainly has a good purity of fruit, and I'll admit there are plenty of older vintages I've not tried yet. Maybe it's too early to write it off (and my mate Dave might excommunicate me) but for $50 on mailing list and $100+ at retail I think I'll put my money elsewhere. Have loved some SVS, Hoffman and Flaxman's though... they can be super yum.

Mt Edelstone - Clearly for me the winner on the night by a few lengths, and the comparison between the youthful 06/09 and the 92/96 combo showed a real consistency of style and quality. Ok they cost more than the two above, but IMHO well worth it, great wines that age very well.

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The Mt Edelstone 1992 was my clear WOTN, plush, evolved, harmonious, quite delicious. The 96 Mt Ed was v.v.good too, just a touch less 'together' compared to the 92 but on another night it would have starred. The 06 MT Ed showed much better than the bottle I bought a year or two ago, less tight (both had been decanted) and starting to emerge nicely (still young though). And the 09 was also enjoyable, you could certainly drink it now, but ideally cellar for 5-15 years.

I didn't have a chance to decant my 1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec, which was a real shame as the palate was shut down for a few hours. The nose had some lovely floral fruit to start but that also soon closed off a bit. I kept a good pour in my glass until the end of the night when it started showing very well indeed, but wasn't ever going to reach the giddy heights that Hacker's 1991 Shiraz did last time. Lisa Brady considered 1991 one of their best years ever, and this was consistent with that view. Now to find other years that show almost as well! It seems to me that the 1991 (and perhaps 1990) are on a plateau that others may never reach, I hope to be proven wrong as they evolve over the years. The 1998 Shiraz was slightly TCA affected IMHO, and was otherwise dominated by VA in an unpleasant 'opening an old paint tin' kind of way. Others were more taken by the 95 Shiraz Mataro than I was, structure was enjoyable but flavours seemed a little muted. I didn't mind the 2003 so perhaps I'm being a bit harsh on Wendouree overall, but given the cult status they have, I just felt it was time to vent my frustration with a poor success rate.

The 05 Rockford BP was the best of the BP's, showing a bit more interest than the slightly porty 03. The O'Shea was good too with some well judged ripeness and just a touch of hunter funk. I thought the Marius Symphony 2011 was fine, while not being on the same level of the 12's. The howls of disappointment when the wine was revealed implied that others were more upset it was their beloved Marius than I was!

Some old Seppelt Para and a Dandelion PX finished the night off well. Loved those Crepes Suzette with vanilla bean ice cream!

Rocket deserves plenty of support and kudos for having such a great team of service professionals. A wonderful place for a wine offline, or just a nice quiet BYO meal for two or four. OK, the steak could have been better, but otherwise I really enjoyed the food, bill was very reasonable and the private room space is A+.

A few label pics....

What a lineup of wines! Great report and pictures Tigger, good on you sydney folk for doing such good offlines!

Excited to hear that 92 Edelstone was showing well, birth year for me so will have to hunt one down...Much life left in it?

I've always thought Wendouree's Cab Malbec is their best wine. Having said that, one of the best wines I've ever had was a magnum of 1990 Wendouree Shiraz last year. I've always thought Wendouree has its own style (based off older wines, I've not tried the more recent and approachable vintages) and my personal opinion is that you have to enjoy it for what it is, not try to fit it into a preconceived idea of what it should taste like based on the grape or the fact it's from Clare Valley. If you still don't like it, well, then I guess it's just not your style! Not saying that's what's happening here, but reading what others say it's something that I suspect a fair number of people may do when trying Wendouree wines.

Still looks like a great night. I have one bottle of each of the '08, '10 and '12 Mt. Eds - they've been buried deep in my cellar and it looks like that's for the best.

Looks like a great night out..
Well done!

catchnrelease wrote:I've always thought Wendouree's Cab Malbec is their best wine. Having said that, one of the best wines I've ever had was a magnum of 1990 Wendouree Shiraz last year. I've always thought Wendouree has its own style (based off older wines, I've not tried the more recent and approachable vintages) and my personal opinion is that you have to enjoy it for what it is, not try to fit it into a preconceived idea of what it should taste like based on the grape or the fact it's from Clare Valley. If you still don't like it, well, then I guess it's just not your style! Not saying that's what's happening here, but reading what others say it's something that I suspect a fair number of people may do when trying Wendouree wines.

So I 'get' the style, I'm just saying the happiness percentage of good aged Wendouree is too low for my liking. And they're definitely not all in a 'style', maybe more at the mercy of vintage or cork variability? Mt Edelstone is in a style, Wendouree for me has a 'hard to coax it's actual personality out' style......

I sadly missed Polymer's (apparently epic) Cab Malbec 1990 last year or so, but I do agree that the Cab Malbec's more often deliver. So I wonder why the Shiraz is the famous one then??? Based on a good period they went thought in the past? (e.g 90/91??) Or is it just in Langtons Exceptional list because it's an auction darling?? It's difficult to get, then so many seem to flick their 6 packs of Shiraz for a profit - maybe to pay for their Cab Malbec?

Well, part of the issue was none of the Wendourees were fantastic....
The 98 Shiraz I think might've had some cork taint. I'm sure w/o the cork taint this still would've been far too young...
The 91 Shiraz Malbec needed air...it needed a decant of a few hours at least....
2003 Shiraz Mataro was still on the young side...it needed more time as well..
2009 Shiraz Mataro was typical of the more recent vintages...Probably more attractive to people that dislike the normal style of Wendouree...
The 95 Shiraz Mataro I thought was in a good place. It isn't a fantastic wine but I thought it was showing nicely for this vintage. Maybe a few more years and this is really singing or maybe it just falls apart but it was the most Wendouree but at the same time ready to drink.

All of the Rockford BPs were nice and safe...like they almost always are...Different but the same...

The 92 Edelstone smacked me in the fact w/ Eucalyptus...and at first seemed lowish in acid but that was just in contrast to the Wendouree and started showing better acidity after I had some time with it.....I agree with the people saying it was showing nicely and compared to the other Edelstones I thought it was showing the best...the 96 had good things and some weird things about it...I actually think the 06 will be very good after another 10 years or so...even with a long decant this was still quite young....I think by the time I finished this though it was looking quite nice. The 09 was just flat out too young...as young as the 06 first struck me as, the 09 was just showing that much younger..borderline undrinkable really....You can see a very good wine there but it absolutely needed either a lot more air or a lot more time or both....I think this was screwcap? I've not had too many young Edelstones but unless this is a variable ingress screwcap this is 20+ years away from being ok to drink.

I actually thought the Marius was interesting...a bit of green and herbiness that I wouldn't have expected from McLaren (It looks like McLaren Vale in the glass and how it sticks to the sides). I didn't mind the added savory flavors..I think others were shocked this wasn't their normal Marius...

This O'Shea was far better than the one I had at the Langtons event...still a bit awkward though...This would've been interesting to try earlier and over some time..

It wasn't in the theme but my favorite might've been the German Riesling....Spatlese Halbtrocken....so not too sweet but good ripeness and nice acidity...great overall mouthfeel....I quite enjoyed the Bolly LGA as well...

Another plus - This was my first older Rockford Riesling that wasn't completely oxidized...I still crave a bit more acidity but this was showing better than pretty much any Rockford Riesling I've had...

TiggerK wrote:

catchnrelease wrote:I've always thought Wendouree's Cab Malbec is their best wine. Having said that, one of the best wines I've ever had was a magnum of 1990 Wendouree Shiraz last year. I've always thought Wendouree has its own style (based off older wines, I've not tried the more recent and approachable vintages) and my personal opinion is that you have to enjoy it for what it is, not try to fit it into a preconceived idea of what it should taste like based on the grape or the fact it's from Clare Valley. If you still don't like it, well, then I guess it's just not your style! Not saying that's what's happening here, but reading what others say it's something that I suspect a fair number of people may do when trying Wendouree wines.

So I 'get' the style, I'm just saying the happiness percentage of good aged Wendouree is too low for my liking. And they're definitely not all in a 'style', maybe more at the mercy of vintage or cork variability? Mt Edelstone is in a style, Wendouree for me has a 'hard to coax it's actual personality out' style......

I sadly missed Polymer's (apparently epic) Cab Malbec 1990 last year or so, but I do agree that the Cab Malbec's more often deliver. So I wonder why the Shiraz is the famous one then??? Based on a good period they went thought in the past? (e.g 90/91??) Or is it just in Langtons Exceptional list because it's an auction darling?? It's difficult to get, then so many seem to flick their 6 packs of Shiraz for a profit - maybe to pay for their Cab Malbec?

I think the Shiraz is more famous because Shiraz is more famous when it comes to Australian wine. The Exceptional listing is all to do with auctions. All the Wendouree Cab Malbecs I've had ranged from good to excellent. No disappointments in my drinking history. Have been disappointed by a few of the Shiraz offerings, but usually due to corks interfering or the wine being too old and past its prime when the fruit was starting to fade and the structure was disappearing.

What a great night! Agree with everyone about the space and the service was 1st class, the food for mine was reasonable without being great.

My impressions:
The Wendouree's were a notch down from the basket press and the mt edelstones. They had a certain cherry/acetone/va composition for the most part which detracted from the wine. The basket press were everything you'd expect, good fruit, nicely balanced, all components sitting where they should. I understand what Tim is referring to re losing their lustre, but I would still be happy to drink one whenever it was offered. In comparison to the mt eds I felt that the Bps finished with a slight charcoal/burnt taste. The mt ed's as a bracket were my top wines. Generous fruit weight, some earthy undertones and interest across the board.
To be honest, all the wines were in such great company that I'm sure drinking any one of the wines individually would be a great experience, but when you have another excellent wine as comparison it's difficult not to judge.

1996 Rockford Riesling - no notes, but from memory, lemon, glycerine, white flowers, lovely perfume, clean and still youthful. Nice

2004 Bollonger la Grand Annee - creamy, almond biscuits, nectarine, lemon zest, really beautiful bead and amazingly tasty.

1997 Weingut Dr. Crusius Schloßböckelheimer Felsenberg Riesling Spatlese - yeah, wow. Lovely lines. Orange sherbet with kafir lime and nice balanced acidity. Slightly hint of brett for me. Really good, and a treat.

1992 Mt Edelstone - stewed plums, licorice, leather and earth, nicely integrated oak, savoury and excellent.
1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec - cherries, aniseed, boot polish, some va, gum leaves and star anise. Nice long dusty tannins.

1998 Wendouree Shiraz - gone, chlorine and varnish.
1996 Mt Edelstone - smelled amazing. Plums and roses, charcuterie with a hint of earth. Excellent
1995 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro - smooth operator. Like this a lot. Dark plums, prunes, chocolate, nice mouthfeel, oak integration. Nicely integrated.

2003 Rockford Basket Press - typical rockford nose of dark plums, chocolate, Christmas cake. From a warm year which may have seen the fruit a little overripe. Got a hint of asparagus in there right at the end, although right in the background.
2003 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro - bit of varnish, cherries/kirsch, dust and dark chocolate, eucalypt. Meh

2005 Rockford Basket Press - plums, blackberries, chocolate, vanilla, slightly burnt earthy notes. By itself, great. Next to the mt ed, somewhat one dimensional.
2006 Mt Edelstone - this for me was the best flight. Wow, mt ed. Wine of the night. Quite a similar profile to the basket press, but just had that bit extra in the tanks, slightly fuller, more earthy and cleaner. Excellent!

Notes from this point became a little thin on as conversation took over. Most from memory, which was a smidge hazy.

2009 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro - mint, chocolate cherry, licorice and eucalypt, like this more than most other Wendouree's from the night.
2009 Mt Edelstone - whoa, tannin heavy, very young. Blackcurrent, vanilla, minty, coffee, nice long tannins. Revisit in 5 years.
2010 Rockford Basket Press - no notes, but was a little underwhelmed.

Options : 2011 Marius Symphony - dusty, with dark cherry, tobacco, herbs, Creme brûlée, savoury and nice tannins. Talk of va, but I thought it more a reflection of the cooler vintage.

2000 Mt Pleasant Maurice O'Shea - lovely developed hunter valley Shiraz, plums and earth, bit of barnyard funk, tar, leather and smidge horsey. Really good.

catchnrelease wrote:I think the Shiraz is more famous because Shiraz is more famous when it comes to Australian wine. The Exceptional listing is all to do with auctions. All the Wendouree Cab Malbecs I've had ranged from good to excellent. No disappointments in my drinking history. Have been disappointed by a few of the Shiraz offerings, but usually due to corks interfering or the wine being too old and past its prime when the fruit was starting to fade and the structure was disappearing.

Yeah I know why it's on the Exceptional list, but why is it so highly regarded in the first place?? Like I said, I assume they had a good run of wines and/or reviews at some point? Or is it their longevity? Based on the 1991, I do get it, I can only assume many other vintages (with enough age) have also shown very well.

'Wine being too old or past it's prime"??/ Crikey, hard to believe, what years were they Alex?? I had a 75 Cab Malbec a few years ago, still way too young! (Well not really going anywhere, but hey). Depends on a preference for primary fruit or more tertiary characters I suppose.

Yeah, I guess it just wasn't a great night for Wendouree, the last one was better, but was still no more than 50/50 for me. I wish we could have all saved the 91 until the end as it really was quite good, sorry I couldn't decant it beforehand....

TiggerK wrote:

catchnrelease wrote:I think the Shiraz is more famous because Shiraz is more famous when it comes to Australian wine. The Exceptional listing is all to do with auctions. All the Wendouree Cab Malbecs I've had ranged from good to excellent. No disappointments in my drinking history. Have been disappointed by a few of the Shiraz offerings, but usually due to corks interfering or the wine being too old and past its prime when the fruit was starting to fade and the structure was disappearing.

Yeah I know why it's on the Exceptional list, but why is it so highly regarded in the first place?? Like I said, I assume they had a good run of wines and/or reviews at some point? Or is it their longevity? Based on the 1991, I do get it, I can only assume many other vintages (with enough age) have also shown very well.

'Wine being too old or past it's prime"??/ Crikey, hard to believe, what years were they Alex?? I had a 75 Cab Malbec a few years ago, still way too young! (Well not really going anywhere, but hey). Depends on a preference for primary fruit or more tertiary characters I suppose.

Yeah, I guess it just wasn't a great night for Wendouree, the last one was better, but was still no more than 50/50 for me. I wish we could have all saved the 91 until the end as it really was quite good, sorry I couldn't decant it beforehand....

I think they had a good run in the early 90's, but I don't really like the whole concept of a list rating some wines as better than the others. There's so much variation from year to year, vintage to vintage, that it all becomes irrelevant.

One Wendouree that I considered past its prime was a '92 Shiraz I had last year. Popped and poured it was fantastic on opening but after a while the fruit faded, structure disappeared and the finish became very short. The cork was soaked through a fair bit, but definitely no tainting. However, a big caveat is that for me a wine is at it's peak when there's a nice balance between primary and tertiary characters, with soft integrated tannins giving good structure and length. If it's all tertiary I'm not a fan.

The 1998 Wendouree Shiraz is a power horse and I'm not drinking anymore until 2018+. It sounds as though on the night yours slightly faulty as my last note I marveled at the wine's purity and linear focus.

I've made the mistake of drinking Mt Eds young in screw cap. Wasteful whereas in the olden days they were more approachable under cork.

I'll try not to sound rude, but preparation is so important when you are battling so many possible performance variables such as storage and taint. I see it all often with my wine group where organizers of high end dinners don't do the ten percenters to borrow a sporting parlance. Popping and pouring is often madness.

Great reports gents, I was very interested in how this event played out.

TiggerK wrote:

catchnrelease wrote:I think the Shiraz is more famous because Shiraz is more famous when it comes to Australian wine. The Exceptional listing is all to do with auctions. All the Wendouree Cab Malbecs I've had ranged from good to excellent. No disappointments in my drinking history. Have been disappointed by a few of the Shiraz offerings, but usually due to corks interfering or the wine being too old and past its prime when the fruit was starting to fade and the structure was disappearing.

Yeah I know why it's on the Exceptional list, but why is it so highly regarded in the first place?? Like I said, I assume they had a good run of wines and/or reviews at some point? Or is it their longevity? Based on the 1991, I do get it, I can only assume many other vintages (with enough age) have also shown very well.

'Wine being too old or past it's prime"??/ Crikey, hard to believe, what years were they Alex?? I had a 75 Cab Malbec a few years ago, still way too young! (Well not really going anywhere, but hey). Depends on a preference for primary fruit or more tertiary characters I suppose.

Yeah, I guess it just wasn't a great night for Wendouree, the last one was better, but was still no more than 50/50 for me. I wish we could have all saved the 91 until the end as it really was quite good, sorry I couldn't decant it beforehand....

Alex's opinion on Wendouree peak tasting is a bit different than most.....His "peak" and mine are probably 20 years apart.. The most telling was one of the really young ones we had one offline where he felt it was only on the decline and at its peak....and I thought it was at least 10 years before it started drinking well...

I really do think Wendouree only hits that majority love stage when it is aged...for awhile...Where the tannins and acid have toned down a bit and wine has really turned into a different beast. Before that I think it can be very divisive....If you're not finding interest in the wine and really enjoy the texture when young, I can see them being just not that enjoyable...

Truth be told, if I only liked Wendouree aged, I wouldn't bother buying it...I might try to track a few aged examples down but I could just not see storing them forever...Some just never really hit that evolved Wendouree peak I'm looking for so if I didn't like them before that, I'd have held these things forever and just never got anything out of it.

It is part of the reason why when so many people want to jump on the mailing list, I'm thinking, 5-10 years from now half of these people won't be buying it and pretty much hate the stuff.....Half the people won't like it at all young...and those great moments to them will be few and far between...

Jamie, when each person brings a bottle on the night, preparation and those '10%'s' simply aren't an option, it's up to each person to prepare their wine as best they can, given how their day pans out. For my 91, I sadly had no option but to pop'n'pour. So should I have not bought it along? No, but we should have saved it in the decanter and poured it later in the night. Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh....

Indeed it is. I bungled a 15k dinner recently popping and pouring though this was at the direction of the cellar master . But , and this hits home as I sit drinking amazing wine in Umbria for less than 5 euros , the amount of times expensive wines don't deliver due a lack of preparation and is wasteful of the expected experience.

Wendouree seems to need some sort of log to give people an idea of how to prepare the wines and to keep track of where the vintages may be tracking , as well as stylistic changes. Perhaps a perpetual auswine Wendouree thread would be an eventual treasure trove of information. I've left Wendourees ( under 10 years age ) in decanters for days to unpeel.

Yeah..it isn't always possible to decant....

I think when we've had some really structured tastings or someone is planning the evening and bringing most of the wines, those seem to be taken care of very well....but when we're doing offlines, not everyone is going to have an opportunity to prepare the wine how they'd necessarily want to...It just isn't realistic given everyone's different schedules etc.

It is interesting either way...

Jamie: CT could do that..just no one puts enough information on there..but I use that to get an idea of what I'm looking at...although nowadays I'll just slow O them if they're older.....

Polymer wrote:Alex's opinion on Wendouree peak tasting is a bit different than most.....His "peak" and mine are probably 20 years apart.. The most telling was one of the really young ones we had one offline where he felt it was only on the decline and at its peak....and I thought it was at least 10 years before it started drinking well...

Yep! Don't get me wrong I do like some development, but yes definitely keep the fruit. That's just me though, I respect that everyone's preferences are different, just makes it that much more interesting. As an example one offline (last year? Can't remember) someone brought a Wynns Centenary - everyone was raving about it but for me there just wasn't enough fruit for me to rave about it as well. I could tell it was a good wine, but just not the style of wine I prefer. I did have a chance to try another bottle at an offline this year which seemed to have more fruit/less development and I preferred that.

I was at a mates place once and he served a '96 Grange and a '99 Wendouree Shiraz and the consensus was that most preferred the Wendouree. Both were too young and quite different style wise but the Wendouree had an X factor that the Grange didn't. I did comment at the time that if the same group tried both wines in 20 years time I'm fairly confident the Grange would be the preferred wine. But when you consider you can buy 10 Wendouree's for 1 Grange, there is no arguement with me.

Jamie kindly donated a 96 Mt Edelstone and an '06 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro a few years back for his Dad and I to drink while in the Barossa. The MT Edelstone was just amazing, up there in my top 5 of all time. It was decanted for 8 hours and was nigh on perfect. We made the mistake of drinking the Wendouree straight after and it was hard work to drink. So different to the Mt Edelstone. Not that it wasn't a good wine, but after the Henschke, not much else could have followed it. The point I am trying to make is these offlines throw up so many amazing wines and some excellent wines get overshadowed by something that just blows everyone away at the table. And as Jamie says, preparation is everything with some of these gems. I always worry I'm not presenting my wines as I should, or should I say, the best they can be. But work schedules can sometimes make this difficult.

Sounds like it was an incredible line up of wines though and a fabulous idea for the theme.

Cheers
Ian

Agree with all, great night. Way too much food for me, didn’t even get through my steak. Love the space and service. Really blurry recollections of a few of the wines below as I didn’t take notes. I woke up surprisingly chipper the next day. (must have been the bottle of water I made myself drink before going to sleep that helped)

1996 Rockford Riesling – Enjoyed this, really showing well. Honeyed, soft on the palate, didn’t have much hope for it when I opened it going by the cork so was pleasantly surprised that it was drinking so nicely.
1997 Weingut Dr. Crusius Schloßböckelheimer Felsenberg Riesling Spatlese – Lovely wine, delicate pineapple, tropical fruit with some sweetness a really elegant spatlese.
1992 Mt Edelstone – Showing tertiary elements, plums, gamey notes, showing wonderfully.
1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec – Lots of tannins still evident, fuzzy and coarse, I reckon a good decant would have had it singing.
1996 Mt Edelstone – I found this a lot ‘cleaner’ and more precise than the 92, more elegant and medium bodied which probably cost it against the more richer, full bodied 92. Really enjoyed it, and as Jamie says provenance is key. (incidentally both of these were sources from the same vendor *cough* The 12.5C Wonderland.
1995 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro – I really liked this, for me it was in a perfect place, on the precipice of primary and secondary, fruit flavours still evident and just starting to soften and integrate.
2005 Rockford Basket Press – I enjoyed this, classic Barossa, with that bit of X-Factor and the flavour profile I love so much.
2006 Mt Edelstone – This was really nice, like really nice. Taut, pure fruited, blackberry, nice spices, drinking wonderfully.
2010 Rockford Basket Press – young but showing really well. Give it another 5 years and it will be singing.
2000 Mt Pleasant Maurice O'Shea – Classic HV shiraz (albeit a bit cleaner than I’d like). Good foil to the rest of the wines.

One convo I remember apart from discussing the merits(?) of dual gateways was why don't Henschke have a Stonewaller, Wendouree type mailing list? Volumes? No desire?

96 on the left, 92 on the right (perfect cellaring)

Cork on the 91 Wendouree was equally perfect, I reckon the same source as well Dave

I am glad people enjoyed the 2000 Mt Pleasant Maurice O'Shea. This wine sat in a hole for a number of years and has only really opened up and revealed its fully potential in the past 2 years or so.

Great night, thank you all for contributing! The tasting yet again confused me about the Wendouree enigma. They really are a siren call. One or two great bottles over five years leaves me hoping and searching out for the next amazing Wendouree experience. Will it be tonight? Only to have my hopes dashed with the glasses in front of me. I really don't know if I should keep on buying on the mailing list. But I will. Dammit.

The Rockfords were ok but they suffered from lack of maturation age. If there was a 1996 or 1998 amongst the offering there may have been more people raising the Rockford bar compared to the Mt Edelstones. That is not taking away from what is truly a class act in all the Mt Ed's on show; they were all superb.

Great night guys, good to meet some guys for the first time, and also see some of the regulars.

For me, it was the first time I've ever had a Wendouree so I was hoping i'd have one of those "WOW" moments with one of the wines that were brought, but unfortunately (fortunately for my wallet), that wasn't the case. I could see where they were going, but it didn't really interest me in any way in how they were drinking on the night. Kevin pointed out to me that the '09 was a more "drinkable style" and I agree, but again, compared to other wines of the same price point, nothing special. So for now, I don't think i'll be seeking out any bottles.

Basket Press was good, but not great. Again, wont go out of my way to purchase, and will just buy when I'm at cellar door and they have it available.

Mt Ed's were clear winners for me, and i'd never had a 92 or 96 before, so was very happy to drink. Scott helped out with the 92 decanting at the restaurant so it didn't get that much airtime, but even when I was at the Cellar Door, they only suggested a 30min decant before serving, which is prob around how much it got on the night.

I really enjoyed the whites, both the Rockford and German Rieslings were perfectly aged and enjoyed every sip. The 04 Bolly LGA was beautiful on the nose and probably even better on the palate.

The Dandelion PX was yum and @ $15? i think i might grab a few.

Food, was good, not great and felt a step down from last time I was at Rocket, but wouldn't turn down another visit here.

Dave, you said you felt quite ok the next morning, but I felt drunk, not sick, but just drunk... like it just lingered until I had some breakfast.

thanks for the notes, a great night out it sounds!!!!!
someone should put this thread in a time capsule, and re-open it after the next Wendouree tasting, when once again, 80% of the wines tasted are disappointing.
how did it get it's reputation? I don't know either, and am looking forward to discovering the answer!!! It wasn't from the early 90's, I was on the mailing list back then and I found the wines truly disappointing.
still, it seems many people love the wine, which is a great thing... variety is the spice of life!!!!!

Looks like an amazing night and thanks for everyone's posts.

Fortunate to have the Wendouree's and Rockford's covered, glad that the riesling showed well, saving my last 2 '96s for 2016.
Can compare the three from the 94, 97, 98, 06 and 2012 vintages only

Dave, think you are on the coin re a Stonewaller situation for Henschke, one could argue that they already do with such small limits and high prices, and their volumes would be large, over 20 wines in the portfolio.
The other two are completely different regarding; marketing, business model, customer base, size, exposure...I could go on and on.

Cheers
Craig.

felixp wrote:thanks for the notes, a great night out it sounds!!!!!
someone should put this thread in a time capsule, and re-open it after the next Wendouree tasting, when once again, 80% of the wines tasted are disappointing.
how did it get it's reputation? I don't know either, and am looking forward to discovering the answer!!! It wasn't from the early 90's, I was on the mailing list back then and I found the wines truly disappointing.
still, it seems many people love the wine, which is a great thing... variety is the spice of life!!!!!

80% of Wendouree isn't disappointing. For some people they might be....and for some they wouldn't.
The 98 was disappointing because I think it was slightly corked...I got pretty much nothing from the wine...(and having had this before this wasn't typical of this wine).
Everything else was in line with expectations...The 91 and 03 both needed more air or more time but they were very in line with expectations for Wendouree. The 09 was actually the oddman out being far more approachable.

This is my general opinion (not counting more recent vintages because I have no idea what those will do).
If you don't like Wendouree at nearly all stages of its development..as in, you can't see value in it or are disappointed. Stop buying it. Don't get on the mailing list, don't buy it. I'm sure that most of the new people joining the mailing list to day, don't really like it. They're buying it because they think they should be. Tons of people must feel they have to like it because..well, it is Wendouree. I'm sure you bought it for the same reason. I'm sure 50-75% of the new people joining the mailing list are doing it EXACTLY for the same reason you did and no doubt, they will buy a bunch for years and be disappointed (although not sure about the new style so this would apply if they go back to the old style). Fact is, it is a bit of an oddball style. High Acid, High Tannin, fruit is very much in the background...how many people really like that style? I don't find even younger Wendourees hard going at all while some do. Jamie said it best when comparing people who enjoy Northern Italian which have a similar profile. If you enjoy that style of wine, you won't find Wendourees confronting at all but many people just don't like that style of wine and that's ok.

Oddly enough....Overseas, Wendouree is probably appreciated far more (% wise) than in AU. Part of that is because of the expectations of AU wine...but part of that is because of the styles of wine they might be exposed to (granted, those people are all wine geeks so that helps). Jamie said something similar and I've seen it first hand.

Wow, lots have already been written, not much to add, great night, thanks to Hacker for organizing and others for their contribution.
Will keep looking for those "Wow bottles of Wendouree" there were none this time as mentioned.
Mt. Eds really stood out for me especially 92 and I lost my appetite for Rockford long ago and last night did not change my mind.

I'd like to attempt a Wendouree summary.

Wendouree make temperamental wines in an unusual style (for Australia) that are mostly difficult to enjoy when outside their window of readiness. And that window is elusive, variable and very distant from the vintage. But when you get a well cellared, non cork affected one in that window from a good vintage it can be fantastic. Just be prepared for a few upsets along the journey.

And FWIW I love high acid, high tannin wines, they are what I prefer to drink!

Ok, enough Wendouree grumbles from me, anyway it's probably not very fair to judge a (mostly) respected winery who have produced maybe 400 or more different wines over more than a century based on around 25 of them, especially when around 25% of them have been cork affected and another 25-50% too young (i.e less than 15-20 years old). Moving on, hope to enjoy a few more great ones over the coming years to help change my mind!

Cheers
Tim