Right, what are we/you drinking now .. tonight

[redwhiteandrose]

Hi Felix,

So what are the most underrated vintages? why? and how would you describe them?

Ta!

[felixp]

Hi Felix,

So what are the most underrated vintages? why? and how would you describe them?

Ta!

don't have the time to go into long detail, but if you are looking at the modern vintages, then 2004 and 2007 left bank and 2001 and 2008 right bank are certainly under-rated.

2004 because it is drinking well, which is handy if you are waiting the required decades for your 05's and 09/10's to mature. The wines are beautifully pure and there initial green fears are much less prominent than first anticipated, and certainly nothing like the dreadful 04 Burgundies (which is another reason 04 Bordeaux might be under-rated, some dump it into the same class as Brugs from 04)

2007 is a pretty ordinary vintage, but there are supermarket shelves literally throwing the stuff out. When you can pick up a 2007 Ducru for the price of Pennies 407, which you can, then for me it is a no-brainer. Maybe not a classical Bordeaux, but full of interest and these 07's are already drinking well. Many of the wines are being chucked out at less than 50% en primeur pricing, so somebody lost a whole lot of cash on this vintage!!

If you are considering mid-range Bordeaux, 2001 right bank is at least as good as the 2000 rights, sure Petrus, Ausone and Lafleur are better in 2000, but so what.
Many 2001's are half the price of their 2000 counterparts. Parker "only" gave Conseillante 89 pts, and about 4 years ago I got a big stash for $80 a bottle in Honkers. It is a sensational wine, but unfortunately Neal martin then scored it 96 and the price went up. (the Chinese and honkies live and die by scores)

2008 right bank would be considered excellent if it wasn't followed by 09 and 10. On the right bank, much better than more lauded vintages such as 95, 98 and 2006. There are some fantastic wines and equally fantastic bargains in Pomerol this vintage, but they were not flattering in their youth and therefore underscored by the experts. Le Gay, Eglise Clinet, Conseillante and La Croix St Georges will be stupendous in 2020. Yes, Elgise Clinet is around $250/bottle, but less than a third of the going rate for the 09 and 10, and quite possibly as good if given another decade.

[malliemcg]

Tonight I'm drinking what is perhaps one of the oldest white wines I’ve ever had at 19 years old, perhaps given the age I should not have been surprised by the golden orange colour, but was still somewhat taken aback by the colour.

Nose : Musky, slightly resiny, something sweet almost marzipan/caramel/candy apple going on.

Taste: Immediately gets the saliva flowing, nice presence. A luxurious mellow feel, a silky honey like texture. Right on the front is a bit of white peach which transitions quickly into the previous texture, perhaps even flavour; On swallowing, there is a tart almost bitter lemon finish.

(This was one of the cheaper old Chardonnay's available at a local liquor store, and an experiment to see how the Mrs felt about aged Chardonnay, she's not a massive fan of the 1-4 year old, she likes this better than the 1-4's, but not a huge fan. Will try something in the middle, then give it a rest for a few years and stick to the Reds for her primarily).

DSC_0003 2_rz.jpg

[Luke W]

2005 Viking Grand Shiraz - just starting to shine in its drinking window. Lovely balance and palate - easy to drink . Not a great deal of complexity and a little one dimensional but u can forgive this because everything else is in place.

[Sean]

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[cuttlefish]

2008 Voyager Girt By Sea cab merlot.
Didn't think much of this at first, but after a couple of hours in a decanter, it's looking a little more like Margaret River.
The palate is medium in weight, but still carries some of the classic leafy aromatic qualities. A meh wine tbh, but if matched with some appropriate food, it's good.

[JamieBahrain]

Wendouree 2011's : cab malbec and shiraz malbec. Lovely dry reds with rustic/ overt peppery nuances reminding me of lesser Rhone appellations. I'm happy if a one off vintage.

[redwhiteandrose]

Felix. Thanks. You're a gent! That was very informative. I'll keep it in mind in future.

For what it's worth, of the (admittedly small sample of) wines I've compared 'lesser' vintages, the 2008s seem to get the best scores. Even Left Bankers. But, as I said, this is from a small sample. Is 2008 a cheap vintage in HK?

Everyone. Thanks for all the great work! I must say though, that it's become much more interesting since Mike, Felix and Jamie became regular posters here with their own niche (imported) interests. I notice that a lot of other posters have been buying more Champagne, Bordeaux and Piedmont in this period (myself included!)

[Sean]

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[Bytown Rick]

1998 Water Wheel Shiraz. Amazing how well this has lasted.

Rick

[redwhiteandrose]

Sean. That's great. Thanks!

[felixp]

Felix. Thanks. You're a gent! That was very informative. I'll keep it in mind in future.

For what it's worth, of the (admittedly small sample of) wines I've compared 'lesser' vintages, the 2008s seem to get the best scores. Even Left Bankers. But, as I said, this is from a small sample. Is 2008 a cheap vintage in HK?

Everyone. Thanks for all the great work! I must say though, that it's become much more interesting since Mike, Felix and Jamie became regular posters here with their own niche (imported) interests. I notice that a lot of other posters have been buying more Champagne, Bordeaux and Piedmont in this period (myself included!)

yea, 2008 is a good buying vintage for Bordeaux, you can get excellent wines in the $70-200 range. As I said, right bank is very, very under-rated, and as they mature there is a bit of a price creep (amazingly, for reasons beyond me, a large percentage of Bordeaux wine doesn't seem to attract the price hike as it gets older, unlike in Aus.)
for me, the value in Bordeaux is with top producers in good, not stellar, vintages, and lesser producers in stellar vintages. I guess it is a bit of a curiosity that the two highest-priced Bordeaux vintages of all time, 2009 and 2010, also gave the wine-loving world some of the greatest bargains of all time.... there were/are $25-50 wines from that vintage that are spectacular, absolutely sublime, and better than top classified growths in the poor years.
don't discount 2007, if you see a real bargain, have a look. It is a bit like 1997, there are nice wines to be had at absurdly low prices.

[redwhiteandrose]

Wise words, Felix. Thanks again.

Don't worry. I've gone big on 2009 and 2010 Bordeaux (and Burgundy for that matter.) And yes, plenty in the price range you stated. Just wanted some more famous 'terroirs' (which are very expensive in those years.)

But some of these wines are tough going at the moment. I can handle both tannic blue wines as well as fully mature decades old examples, but as you said, older wines tend to represent good value. And you can even consider drinking them instead of locking them away until heaven knows when

[Michael McNally]

WOTY experience..... 1986 Wynns John Riddoch. The level was lower neck, quite good for this age, and the Ah So performed perfectly revealing a perfect cork with staining only 1cm. a good sign! Left to Audoze for five hours, then into a glass as big as a swimming pool, revealing absolute Coonawarra perfection! Deep color, perfect structure with still dominant fruit but draped in a generous velvet cloak. It filled my mouth with voluptuous yet smooth fruit flavours that define Coonawarra. Length to burn. One of those wow wines that only come along only every now and then.

I was leaning towards Margaret River as my preferred Cabernet region, but this is making me reasses......

Early call for WOTY (I know you added 'experience' but that's cheating!)

Pleased you enjoyed it so much and posted about it here!

Cheers

Michael

[Hacker]

WOTY experience..... 1986 Wynns John Riddoch. The level was lower neck, quite good for this age, and the Ah So performed perfectly revealing a perfect cork with staining only 1cm. a good sign! Left to Audoze for five hours, then into a glass as big as a swimming pool, revealing absolute Coonawarra perfection! Deep color, perfect structure with still dominant fruit but draped in a generous velvet cloak. It filled my mouth with voluptuous yet smooth fruit flavours that define Coonawarra. Length to burn. One of those wow wines that only come along only every now and then.

I was leaning towards Margaret River as my preferred Cabernet region, but this is making me reasses......

Early call for WOTY (I know you added 'experience' but that's cheating!)

Pleased you enjoyed it so much and posted about it here!

Cheers

Michael

Hi Michael,

It is actually the best wine to pass my lips in the last couple of years! So I reckon I can get away with it

Cheers,
David.

[qwertt]

Wynn’s Black Label Cabernet 2003. On the second night. 2/3 in the fridge overnight. Got better as the evening progressed. Could be the wine developed more nicely or the alcohol dulled my senses more. Either way I enjoyed it most at the end. A very nice wine. Lots of drying tannins, but not too dry for my taste. Good stuff.

[Rossco]

2012 majella cabernet sauvignon - great wine, but needs a lot of time. Very high acid and im still
Feeling the repercussions. Not to worry, maybe I'm just getting older and more susceptible to it.
green capsicum, really juicy raspberry, blueberry and blackberry. Classic coonawarra earth and mint. But im
Still disappointed that it's going to take 15 years before its ready to drink. Still love it!

2013 Bowen estate shiraz. This was one of those rare surprises where you expected nothing and were
Absolutely floored at how good it was....stunning wine. Full of regional goodness and oh the juice.... The juice
Was so....juicy. lick your lips good. Straight out of The bottle this was better than the majella. Smooth and easy
To drink. Will get better with a little age, but not built for 20+ years. to me this is a
10 year proposition. Either way....great wine

[deejay81]

2011 Mount Pleasant Rosehill Shiraz

Pop and pour. Was on the balcony with a bbq going so didn't really focus too much on the wine, but strawberries and dirt on the nose initially.

A bit of tannin, a bit of acid, and alot of red fruits.

Very easy to drink and would drink with bbq's all day, any day.

[Hacker]

Last night out with MichaelR and Polymer and a few other luminaries and we knocked the tops off:
Selosse les Carelles disg Apr 2012, a sublime broad palate of flavor and concentrated enjoyment. Puts other champagnes to shame.
07 and 08 Dom Bertheau Bonnes Mares - the 07 was more classic whilst the '08 had a strong acid structure. Both lovely wines.
1934 Henri de Bahezre Chambolle Musigny - fruit depth in this was astounding, and so full bodied, like a bottle from say 1996! Amazing wine, and a privilege to drink.
2012 Bachelet Monnot Batard Montrachet- deep broad flavoursome structure
2009 PYCM Corton Charlemagne - oh my! Structure and line.
2008 Villane Vosne les Suchots - powerful nose leads to a strong palate structure.

Great night was had by all

[Michael R]

Yep, fun night and really enjoyed oscillate wildly, look forward to returning at some point.

2008 Villane Vosne les Suchots - powerful nose leads to a strong palate structure.

l

Close!...it was the Prieure Roch Suchots. Also I thought it was an older vintage....?
Also the Chablis, think was an 11 Dauvissat La Forest, interesting oak element which I enjoyed but not perhaps one for the purists.


And a cheeky dessert wine magically appeared before the curtain dropped!

[tj2]

nice Japanese dinner tonight with some good wines:

Larmandier-Bernier Latitude NV - Sourdough nose, rich without being too broad, light on the fizz but big on flavour and balance
2006 Grosset Watervale Riesling - light colour, kerosene nose, lacked expressive flavour for me, admirable but not that enjoyable
2010 Blain-Gagnard Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru Les Caillerets - very impressive wine, great flavour spectrum - green apple, pear juice, stonefruit, minerals, lots of length - probably should have waited on this 2++ years
2010 Mount Mary Pinot Noir - again too young, pinosity evident but needing airtime/age, nice ripe fruit flavour and great mouthfeel and structure - will go the distance
2008 Pignan Chateaunuef-du-Pape - my first experience of Chateau Rayas, most divisive wine of the night, almost like grenache in a bubble for me, an ethereal wine, a beguiling lightness hinting at complexity which I couldn't quite grasp
2000 Poderi Aldo Conterno Bussia Cicala Barolo - cacao, vanilla, coffee, rose petal, cherries, licorice after breathing, grippy tannins prolong all these flavours and frame a beautiful, complex, fresh and complete wine, thoroughly enjoyable

[Krusty]

Yep, fun night and really enjoyed oscillate wildly, look forward to returning at some point.

2008 Villane Vosne les Suchots - powerful nose leads to a strong palate structure.

l

Close!...it was the Prieure Roch Suchots. Also I thought it was an older vintage....?
Also the Chablis, think was an 11 Dauvissat La Forest, interesting oak element which I enjoyed but not perhaps one for the purists.


And a cheeky dessert wine magically appeared before the curtain dropped!

And no late night run to Love, Tilly Devine on the way home Mick ?

Oscillate Wildly is a great little place, have been following it's fortunes for more than 10 years nows....once upon time it was $45 for three courses and was likely best value restaurant in Sydney !

[VINH NGUYEN]

don't have the time to go into long detail, but if you are looking at the modern vintages, then 2004 and 2007 left bank and 2001 and 2008 right bank are certainly under-rated.

2004 because it is drinking well, which is handy if you are waiting the required decades for your 05's and 09/10's to mature. The wines are beautifully pure and there initial green fears are much less prominent than first anticipated, and certainly nothing like the dreadful 04 Burgundies (which is another reason 04 Bordeaux might be under-rated, some dump it into the same class as Brugs from 04)

Hi mate, have you had 04 LMHB? Forgot i had bid on it and ended up winning 3 bottles.

[Polymer]

Yep, fun night and really enjoyed oscillate wildly, look forward to returning at some point.

2008 Villane Vosne les Suchots - powerful nose leads to a strong palate structure.

l

Close!...it was the Prieure Roch Suchots. Also I thought it was an older vintage....?
Also the Chablis, think was an 11 Dauvissat La Forest, interesting oak element which I enjoyed but not perhaps one for the purists.


And a cheeky dessert wine magically appeared before the curtain dropped!

Prieure Roch Les Suchots 2008 - Definitely straddled the line between New and Old World...but truth be told, I wouldn't buy this again. That itch was scratched...I felt like it was built to go long haul but the lack of SO2 will make that difficult and from what I can tell, they start bricking really early...
Dauvissat La Forest 2011 - Dauvissat or Raveneau? Por queue no los dos? I think the oak is subtle and adds to the wine..but maybe not classical Chablis...

Damn Mick, you seriously have eagle eyes..

Dessert wine was a Lethbridge Botrytis Riesling.....Hand picked Botrytis Riesling that is then frozen....
Selosse les Carelles - Good acidity...the oxidative style really adds depth and complexity..really enjoyed this..
07 and 08 Dom Bertheau Bonnes Mares - Really interesting contrast here...half the table preferring each one...the 2008 just seemed to flow in just the right way for me...Both wines were great but I was amazed at how different they were to each other...
1934 Henri de Bahezre Chambolle Musigny - Impossible color for the age..had a really nice almost Rhone like meaty nose...Had wonderful tertiary flavors but still felt youngish....Had a hard time wrapping my head around how a wine this old could be like this...amazing...
2012 Bachelet Monnot Batard Montrachet / 2009 PYCM Corton Charlemagne - Both of these were great....The Bachelet was definitely on the young side and had a bit more SO2 going on but still everything was there and for me had a longer finish...the PYCM had fuller fruit but still kept in check by great acid....Really happy no premox although I suspect we're going to see a lot more "match stick" on the nose White Burgundy in an attempt to prevent premox...

[rens]

2005 Remírez de Ganuza Fincas de Ganuza Reserva 2005 was a very good to excellent vintage in Rioja. This comes from 40 year old vines grown in Samaniego a municipality located in the province of Araba, in the Basque Country, northern Spain. The vines grow at 500 metres above sea level in limestone and clay soils.
The wine is a blend of 90% tempranillo and 10% graciano. The winemaker used only the shoulders of the bunches with the ferment undertaken in stainless steal tanks. The wine was aged 24 months in oak- 80% french and 20% American.
It was a pop and poor which is evolving over the next 2 hours as we reached the fine sediment in the bottom of the bottle. Deep, dark with a crimson hue, the nose is unmistakably rioja with cherries, black fruits and asian spice. The palate has dark cherry and cola, cigar box, mushroom and plum all mixed with asian spice and a fine hint of coconut. It is well structured with firm, slightly puckering tannins that go unnoticed with food and the finish lengthens as you near the bottom of the bottle. It has managed the first decade of its life in a canter and will grow old gracefully as you approach 2026. A perfect match for warm chorizo, spinach and roast tomato on toasted ciabatta.

[Hacker]

2010 Teusner 'The Riebke' Shiraz with pizza last night. 750ml bottle. Deep and powerful, years to go, yet still smooth as. 2010 seems to be a powerful year. A bit too coiled for the pizzas! Would have preferred fillet steak with green peppercorn cream sauce! Dreaming! Safe to leave for a few more years in the 750ml format.

[JamieBahrain]

Empties from the tasting bench- Teusner Riebke 2012 & Duval Plexus white 2012 not in picture.

The Giacosa is sublime and a great intro to the magic of nebbiolo. Delicate and fancy, pinto finesse from a wonderful amphitheatre vineyard in the Roero. 91pts+

Cherubino 2009 Frankland is wonderful on day 2 so I've learn't to decant this for the afternoon as preparation for dinner drinking. It's this month's quaffer though so good and so serious I've put 6 of the case away. 93pts+

Bondonio nebbiolo 2012 is great quaffing though a glass per bottle awkward suggesting a little time will help. 87pts+

Jaboulet Thalabert 2010, excellent, rich creme cassis and needs time. Back filling this vineyard as pretty cheap for it's quality ( can be variable I know ). 92pts+

Lovedale 2005. Lacking development and dominated by citrus notes, somewhat boring at this stage and leave for 5+ ? 89pts+

Di Gresy Langhe nebbiolo 2010. Great producer, great vintage and even his plain neb' needs a decade!!! 92pts+

Vernay Cote Rotie 2009. Just put six of these away in Australian cellar and the other 6 for drinking now. Silk textured with lovely round fruit which will push out in time. 93pts+

[Sean]

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[toofastdriving]

Little birthday celebration with a Grange of birth year - 1980 - very happy this turned out to be a good bottle. Double decanted, started tasting good after about an hour. Feels a little old, but so do I - good length, a nice tasty wine - would be happy with another one this good.

[Hacker]

2010 Teusner 'The Riebke' Shiraz with pizza last night. 750ml bottle. Deep and powerful, years to go, yet still smooth as. 2010 seems to be a powerful year. A bit too coiled for the pizzas! Would have preferred fillet steak with green peppercorn cream sauce! Dreaming! Safe to leave for a few more years in the 750ml format.

The other half of this two nights later, less coiled, softer, smoother, more enjoyable. Great wine! Tastes better out of the 750ml format than any of the 375ml bottles I have had so far, and I have had quite a few.