What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?

[via collins]

TiggerK wrote:

sjw_11 wrote:
In the right moment, a chilled rose can be absolutely sublime.

AGREE, but not Aussie Rose.


AGREE, except for Aussie Rosé made from Nebbiolo where I DISAGREE. It's a completely different beast to the usual Aussie stuff. They're very dry and savoury with lots of complexity and no "lolly water" element (which I detest even in small amounts). I think the 2017's Rosé's from Adelina, Domenica and Latta are excellent.

- bugger the formatting, but AGREE STRONGLY with Ozzie on nebbiolo rose

[TiggerK]

I think the 2017's Rosé's from Adelina, Domenica and Latta are excellent.

Only tried the Latta, and based on that, AGREE.

Not up at sublime level though.

[Mike Hawkins]

Riesling that cost more than 50 dollars...absurd!!
they are the cheapest wines to make , picked, fermented,put into stainless, filtered, bottled all in the space of a couple of months and on the shelves straight after that.

Cheers Craig

I used to think that, but a person involved with one of Australia’s greatest rieslings pointed out to me that the juice from a ton of grapes is much less than that of other varieties. I have no reason to doubt his statement, as he’s a stand up guy...

[Cactus]

That wine always needs to be paired with the correct food match. Feck it, sometimes I want some fish but also want a Cab Sav.

[TiggerK]

Many / most red wines under screwcap from the mid 2000s onward were not made gracefully

Fixed it for you!

Hope to catch up again soon M&T!!

[TiggerK]

That wine always needs to be paired with the correct food match. Feck it, sometimes I want some fish but also want a Cab Sav.

Assume you mean Orange wine Cactus? If you can find it (likely sold out now), try the Ruggabellus Sallio (think it was 2016?). It was orange, tangy and acidic (yum), but also to me (and from memory after some hours of air), really took on characters that reminded me of really great aged red wine (more Pinot-esque, but lovely aged tertiary characters). Maybe it was one of those 'in the moment, and what I was eating etc' but I so loved that wine, and the price was Value!

Cheers
Tim

[odyssey]

That wine always needs to be paired with the correct food match. Feck it, sometimes I want some fish but also want a Cab Sav.

Agree within limits. Maybe not fish and cab for me.

While we’re on the topic, I’m going to stir the pot and piss off some Somms and maybe the French.

For High quality wine I find that it is almost always better to appreciate its complexity without simultaneously eating. The “almost” is because I’ve only seen maybe 4 or 5 exceptions where the sum was better than its parts.

[odyssey]

I’m also going to make an exception to the “agree” above.

This one may be unpopular with a couple of friends here but I know they can take it.

Blue cheese always detracts from from dry wine and even many sweet wines, and does so for a long time after eating it (15 mins sometimes assuming no palate cleansers). It should always be had after the entire set of dry wines are complete.

[odyssey]

Oh also. Port and stilton is immensely overrated. Sorry Brits.

[TiggerK]

For High quality wine I find that it is almost always better to appreciate its complexity without simultaneously eating. The “almost” is because I’ve only seen maybe 4 or 5 exceptions where the sum was better than its parts.

COMPLETELY AGREE!!!

[Wizz]

Riesling that cost more than 50 dollars...absurd!!
they are the cheapest wines to make , picked, fermented,put into stainless, filtered, bottled all in the space of a couple of months and on the shelves straight after that.

Cheers Craig

I used to think that, but a person involved with one of Australia’s greatest rieslings pointed out to me that the juice from a ton of grapes is much less than that of other varieties. I have no reason to doubt his statement, as he’s a stand up guy...

Mike that has me puzzled - when we were making Auburn (the non botrytised ones) yields were typically about 65%, ie 650l of juice per tonne of grapes. What yields was this person quoting for other varieties?

The price vs cost discussion has been had many times over in other threads.

[Mike Hawkins]

Craig, I can’t remember so would be doing everyone a disservice to guesstimate.

[Polymer]

For High quality wine I find that it is almost always better to appreciate its complexity without simultaneously eating. The “almost” is because I’ve only seen maybe 4 or 5 exceptions where the sum was better than its parts.

COMPLETELY AGREE!!!

Agree and Disagree.

That's a tricky one...I think given enough high quality wine I'd love to have it with food and be able to enjoy it without....so basically multiple glasses...Its basically saying I have enough to enjoy the wine by itself and appreciate it as it is...but then I also get the chance to experience a unique 1+1=3.

Given 60-100mls of wine (which is generally the context I have these)....no question on its own....

[Ian S]

That wine always needs to be paired with the correct food match. Feck it, sometimes I want some fish but also want a Cab Sav.

We find the best solution to this, if the match might be a poor one, is to eat all the food, and only then drink the wine.

[phillisc]

Riesling that cost more than 50 dollars...absurd!!
they are the cheapest wines to make , picked, fermented,put into stainless, filtered, bottled all in the space of a couple of months and on the shelves straight after that.

Cheers Craig

I used to think that, but a person involved with one of Australia’s greatest rieslings pointed out to me that the juice from a ton of grapes is much less than that of other varieties. I have no reason to doubt his statement, as he’s a stand up guy...

Hi Mike not discounting the advice you were given. I have had winemakers tell me the opposite, large berries, minimal intervention, quick process from harvest to shelf...great for cash flow. I can understand some international Rieslings being expensive in terms of fruit selection, particularly sweeter styles.

That said, if all made roughly the same way over the same time frame, I am certainly not convinced with wineries who have 3 and 4 Rieslings staggered over $15-50 dollars, reflect production costs, more like this one is special cause it grows in rock, therefore we will charge a special price.

Cheers Craig

[Matt@5453]

Riesling that cost more than 50 dollars...absurd!!
they are the cheapest wines to make , picked, fermented,put into stainless, filtered, bottled all in the space of a couple of months and on the shelves straight after that.

Cheers Craig

I used to think that, but a person involved with one of Australia’s greatest rieslings pointed out to me that the juice from a ton of grapes is much less than that of other varieties. I have no reason to doubt his statement, as he’s a stand up guy...

Hi Mike not discounting the advice you were given. I have had winemakers tell me the opposite, large berries, minimal intervention, quick process from harvest to shelf...great for cash flow. I can understand some international Rieslings being expensive in terms of fruit selection, particularly sweeter styles.

That said, if all made roughly the same way over the same time frame, I am certainly not convinced with wineries who have 3 and 4 Rieslings staggered over $15-50 dollars, reflect production costs, more like this one is special cause it grows in rock, therefore we will charge a special price.

Cheers Craig

Without knowing the context of Mike’s conversation, and without going into a huge technical discussion about seasonal variation (extremely important factor), particular varieties, yields (function of many things) & extraction rates (available litres per tonne), it is quite typical in the production of some premium Rieslings for winemakers to press off and draw just the first part of the free run juice to produce a wine, this could be say 400-600 Litres per Tonne, where the total available extraction/litres could be say 680-740 Litres per tonne.

The balance of the available juice could be pressed off to go into other (cheaper) wines, the skins could go into other ferments (i.e. how Viognier can be added to shiraz), or discarded completely.

[Michael McNally]

That wine always needs to be paired with the correct food match. Feck it, sometimes I want some fish but also want a Cab Sav.

Agree, unless you have several courses (which would then require several 'matching' wines). Usually, I am opening one bottle to have in one evening and I will be eating for maybe 15 minutes of that evening, so which is more important? Wine before food (so I often have red friendly food!).

Cheers

Michael

[Michael McNally]

And agree, biodynamics and voodoo have no place in wine production. Organics is great because it is good for the planet and the long-term health of the vines, which may help with grape development. The rest is nonsense.

Cheers

Michael

[George Krashos]

That Rockford Basket Press Shiraz is still good wine.

[dave vino]

That young Australian Semillon is like having sex in a canoe....aka fscking close to water.

[mjs]

That young Australian Semillon is like having sex in a canoe....aka fscking close to water.

The corollary being who likes Pinot Gris/Grigio?

Nothing but “white paint on a white canvas”

[sjw_11]

That young Australian Semillon is like having sex in a canoe....aka fscking close to water.

But you are still having sex? Which is (hopefully) a good thing?

I agree, but would disagree for a Semi/Sav B blend... I do love a fresh, crisp WA Semi/Savvy in hot summer weather.

Btw, I love this thread, really good topic.

[Mahmoud Ali]

After the explosion of NZ-styled sauvignon blanc dominating the market with all and sundry trying to emulate the style, I used to say that life was too short to drink sauvignon blanc. However, a very nice Staete Land from the '08 vintage and several Napa Valley ones has convinced me that there is hope for this varietal.

[ticklenow1]

Here goes for my 2 cents.

High alcohol fruit bombs don't age well.....

Coonawarra Cab can be great, but in my limited experience is too green.....

Margaret River Cab is over rated.....

Rockford Rifle Range is more often better the Basket Press.....

Sauvingnon Blanc (especially NZ) should be banned.....

Cheers
Ian

[Wizz]

That young Australian Semillon is like having sex in a canoe....aka fscking close to water.

The corollary being who likes Pinot Gris/Grigio?

Nothing but “white paint on a white canvas”

I think it was a young Gary Walsh that described Pinot Gris as a shrug in a glass.

[Chuck]

Re matching wine with food. I drink red wine with anything including seafood. I'll even drink red wine without food so basically I'll drink red wine at any time. It's made easier by never getting hangovers no matter how much I drink. However there is a clear downside to that. I probably drink too much when I do drink wine.

[Rossco]

my questions/comments

A lot of Tasmanian Pinot is thin, green and mean.

Barossa produces better Cabernet that its Shiraz brother

Langhorn Creek is a very under-rated region

Pet Nat isnt a thing despite how many people try and push it as the new 'latest and greatest'

[Cactus]

I am mostly a lurker rather than a poster. I thibk this is my favourite topic. Love this thread, keep it coming.

Touched on earlier, but let me agree, Barossa Cab Sav is underated.

[Scotty vino]

stemless glasses? Like em.

[phillisc]

stemless glasses? Like em.

Now that is a good one...brought some mixed Riedel packs and have a dozen of those stemless numbers, only for water of G&T.

Cheers Craig