The Auswine Forum

GraemeG wrote:

michel wrote:

Ian S wrote: Mixed experience here: 2001 definitely fared better than 1998 and 1999. The price rises have long since been too much for me, though I'd stump up for their Chardonnay again.

2001 still looks like plenty of time left

I liked the 09, but thought the 01 was average, and the 99 weak. The heralded 95 I wasn't impressed with either. The Cullen DM is rather an unclothed emperor for me. Same goes for Grosset rieslings in general. Yes, I'd agree that while a lot of local riesling is sound and very drinkable, 'boring' isn't a bad word for most of it...
Graeme

post of the year.
thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.
as for Grosset, he makes a great Gaia, everything else is over-hyped nonsense. Polish Hill does NOT age well in his hands.

felixp21 wrote:

GraemeG wrote:

michel wrote: 2001 still looks like plenty of time left

I liked the 09, but thought the 01 was average, and the 99 weak. The heralded 95 I wasn't impressed with either. The Cullen DM is rather an unclothed emperor for me. Same goes for Grosset rieslings in general. Yes, I'd agree that while a lot of local riesling is sound and very drinkable, 'boring' isn't a bad word for most of it...
Graeme

post of the year.
thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.
as for Grosset, he makes a great Gaia, everything else is over-hyped nonsense. Polish Hill does NOT age well in his hands.

I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..

But I can’t agree about Polish Hill from a good vintage. With 15 plus years, these are sensational. Right up with some of the great dry rieslings from Europe. While I have aged CSH as the benchmark in this style, it often delivers more disappointments for me, than does aged PH.

Great Thread!
Good idea NOT to include '90 or '91 in the line up, as any number of wines would qualify!

From my tastings,

'05 Crawford Reserve Riesling
''98,'99' '05, '09 Vat 1
'96 Penfolds Block 42
'96 & '99 Wynns Riddoch
'96 389 is truly a freak.
'11 LEAS Chardy
Any year of Thompson Family Shiraz

But i must admit the 2000's were generally a bit of a let down for me.

Consider your Unicorn wine en magnum ! Look at Rory's list. How smashing some of those would be.

I wish the Aussie wine industry would wake up too re magnums ! They are used for a quick profit yet are the perfect opportunity to present your wines at maturity. Barossa shiraz for instance, what a great vessel to mature this style of wine in. But oh no, let's charge three times the price where as the rest of the world its an even double and the winemaker sees it as a pleasing opportunity and investment by the buyer to get a look at the wine at maturity.

I'v been fortunate enough to catch up in family like lunch environments with wine prodcuers where they present their wines from personal cellar. In the Piedmont and Wachau, magnums rule at 2 x the cost of of a 750ml. Recall Rudic Pichler's single vineyard rieslings in magnum, wow!

Covincing format. Gives a leg up for the chance of a wine being a unicorn experience.

Jamie,

You make a good point.

However, without mentioning the c word or the s word, I would suggest that a majority of Aussie winemakers are providing their customers with an opportunity “to get a look at the wine at maturity” without the need of magnums.

I realise that we do not agree on some issues and you will find that statement contentious (to say the least) but I am only stating what I believe and I fully respect your position.

I hope that this post does not drag this thread down to somewhere we have all been before and really don’t want to go again. That is not my intention. I hope that I do not regret this post.

Regards,

Roger

Rory wrote:Great Thread!
Good idea NOT to include '90 or '91 in the line up, as any number of wines would qualify!

From my tastings,

'05 Crawford Reserve Riesling
''98,'99' '05, '09 Vat 1
'96 Penfolds Block 42
'96 & '99 Wynns Riddoch
'96 389 is truly a freak.
'11 LEAS Chardy
Any year of Thompson Family Shiraz

But i must admit the 2000's were generally a bit of a let down for me.

hmmm, maybe we need to revisit the definition of "unicorn" hehe
looks like you intend to have an entire zoo filled with unicorns

Mike Hawkins wrote:

felixp21 wrote:

GraemeG wrote: I liked the 09, but thought the 01 was average, and the 99 weak. The heralded 95 I wasn't impressed with either. The Cullen DM is rather an unclothed emperor for me. Same goes for Grosset rieslings in general. Yes, I'd agree that while a lot of local riesling is sound and very drinkable, 'boring' isn't a bad word for most of it...
Graeme

post of the year.
thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.
as for Grosset, he makes a great Gaia, everything else is over-hyped nonsense. Polish Hill does NOT age well in his hands.

I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..

But I can’t agree about Polish Hill from a good vintage. With 15 plus years, these are sensational. Right up with some of the great dry rieslings from Europe. While I have aged CSH as the benchmark in this style, it often delivers more disappointments for me, than does aged PH.

IN my experience, 15 years age on the Grosset PH leaves me with undrinkable, oxidised kero. The one exception was the 97, from a fabulous vintage, that only took 3-4 years to oxidise

RogerPike wrote:Jamie,

You make a good point.

However, without mentioning the c word or the s word, I would suggest that a majority of Aussie winemakers are providing their customers with an opportunity “to get a look at the wine at maturity” without the need of magnums.

I realise that we do not agree on some issues and you will find that statement contentious (to say the least) but I am only stating what I believe and I fully respect your position.

I hope that this post does not drag this thread down to somewhere we have all been before and really don’t want to go again. That is not my intention. I hope that I do not regret this post.

Regards,

Roger

G'day Roger

The SC and better storage was mentioned as a primer for Unicorn wines earlier on. Anecdotes that SC age as traditonal magnums do wasn't considered in this post. I'm still living in 1996 I guess.

Perhaps professionally stored magnums under Screw Cap could present very smart wines long term.

Agreement!!

JamieBahrain wrote:

RogerPike wrote:Jamie,

You make a good point.

However, without mentioning the c word or the s word, I would suggest that a majority of Aussie winemakers are providing their customers with an opportunity “to get a look at the wine at maturity” without the need of magnums.

I realise that we do not agree on some issues and you will find that statement contentious (to say the least) but I am only stating what I believe and I fully respect your position.

I hope that this post does not drag this thread down to somewhere we have all been before and really don’t want to go again. That is not my intention. I hope that I do not regret this post.

Regards,

Roger

G'day Roger

The SC and better storage was mentioned as a primer for Unicorn wines earlier on. Anecdotes that SC age as traditonal magnums do wasn't considered in this post. I'm still living in 1996 I guess.

Perhaps professionally stored magnums under Screw Cap could present very smart wines long term.

Excellent. I finally worked out what Roger was talking about. I thought CS meant complete shit but couldn't really work out the context.

felixp21 wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:

felixp21 wrote:
post of the year.
thank God someone else feels the same. I have a mountain of undrunk Cullen from the 90's and a few from the early 00's. Probably close to 100 in all, none of it any good. Boring rubbish. I like the guys from Winefront, but occasionally their calls mystify me, with Cullens on top of the list.
as for Grosset, he makes a great Gaia, everything else is over-hyped nonsense. Polish Hill does NOT age well in his hands.

I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..

But I can’t agree about Polish Hill from a good vintage. With 15 plus years, these are sensational. Right up with some of the great dry rieslings from Europe. While I have aged CSH as the benchmark in this style, it often delivers more disappointments for me, than does aged PH.

IN my experience, 15 years age on the Grosset PH leaves me with undrinkable, oxidised kero. The one exception was the 97, from a fabulous vintage, that only took 3-4 years to oxidise

I am going to go with Mike on the Grosset PHs. I tried the 2017 at a comparative international tasting earlier this year. It was up against some pretty good German and Alsace rieslings and it was a clear star of the evening especially when you consider it was only $48 pb. We have also had a few older versions at offlines in Sydney recently and out past 15 years they have been impressive wines. Perhaps they just don't cross the equator well.

rooman wrote:

felixp21 wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:
I’ve been saying the same about Cullen for 10 years. It peaks at release..

But I can’t agree about Polish Hill from a good vintage. With 15 plus years, these are sensational. Right up with some of the great dry rieslings from Europe. While I have aged CSH as the benchmark in this style, it often delivers more disappointments for me, than does aged PH.

IN my experience, 15 years age on the Grosset PH leaves me with undrinkable, oxidised kero. The one exception was the 97, from a fabulous vintage, that only took 3-4 years to oxidise

I am going to go with Mike on the Grosset PHs. I tried the 2017 at a comparative international tasting earlier this year. It was up against some pretty good German and Alsace rieslings and it was a clear star of the evening especially when you consider it was only $48 pb. We have also had a few older versions at offlines in Sydney recently and out past 15 years they have been impressive wines. Perhaps they just don't cross the equator well.

I think the screw cap versions are infinitely better than their cork brethren at similar ages. Like Felix, I’ve had some from the 90s under cork that were a mess. But the 2002 under SC is superb.

Time will undoubtedly shift this off any such list, but today I was luck enough to share a bottle of a special white that I had gifted to a friend a while back. The 2014 Domaine A 'Lady A' is probably one of the greatest Aussie whites made.

Yea, Mike, to be fair, I was really referring to cork Grossets, a general disaster

WineRick wrote:Time will undoubtedly shift this off any such list, but today I was luck enough to share a bottle of a special white that I had gifted to a friend a while back. The 2014 Domaine A 'Lady A' is probably one of the greatest Aussie whites made.

Hi Rick.

Wow! Glad you raised Lady A. It has trumped all in a sav blanc blind tasting over a number of blind events ( 2007 I think ) for my wine society in HKG. The wines were the great sav blancs of the Old World and a few well know BDX sem sav blancs.

I had the 2007 a few months ago. One OK, one very good and one amazing. Corks!

IS the 2014 under SC?

rooman wrote:
I am going to go with Mike on the Grosset PHs. I tried the 2017 at a comparative international tasting earlier this year. It was up against some pretty good German and Alsace rieslings and it was a clear star of the evening especially when you consider it was only $48 pb. We have also had a few older versions at offlines in Sydney recently and out past 15 years they have been impressive wines. Perhaps they just don't cross the equator well.

I don't think they make it out of anywhere well..

I've never seen it clean up against any other wines...I'm still waiting for a Grosset Polish Hill to impress...young or old...

I'm sure one day, one might...but I just don't understand what is going on with that wine...I am perfectly fine with bone dry Rieslings...I love Aussie Riesling in general but Grosset PH, I have no idea what is up there. I can believe that somewhere in there, with age, people might really like this wine...Young, when people gush over it..sorry, I just think they think they're supposed to like it but there is nothing there.

felixp21 wrote:Yea, Mike, to be fair, I was really referring to cork Grossets, a general disaster

The cork versions were a complete disaster. No arguments with that. I had a case of the 97 PH. Whenever I wanted to drink one, I had to put three in the fridge. One was guaranteed to down right awful/corked/brown muck, one the fruit would be flat and blah and one would be awesome. Hence only 4 out of the case shone. At the end of the day I also have way more Springvale in the cellar than PH but I doubt the Springvale will ever amount to white Unicorns (pardon the pun) the way say a 99 Vat 1 will go down in history.

Firstly, I am not sure why the 1996 Penfolds Bin 389 is discussed in this thread. I bought a lot of this wine, and have drunk it many times over the years and although it is excellent, it's structure way too chunky to be regarded as a true great in my opinion. All you have to do to demonstrate this is put it next to a good St Henri or Grange. It isn't in the same league

That out of the way, I can add to in my experience NZ wine that will fit the bill. 1996 onward:

1998 Martinborough Vineyards Reserve Pinot Noir. In my opinion this is the greatest ever NZ Pinot Noir. Astonishing. A well stored bottle I would imagine is still at peak. I drank my last bottle about 4 years ago and it was sublime. The winery at one stage was buying these back from customers at $500pb after a panel blind tasting in the USA where it trumped DRC La Tache among other notables. Everything a pinot should be...highly varietal, sexy, fragrant, long, seductive. So so bloody good

1998 Te Mata Coleraine. Tried over 25 vintages of this wine. Decanter "Wine Legend", 1998 is an atypical Coleraine that has done everything it has promised. I have been lucky enough to try my and other peoples bottles many times over the last two decades. It has aged slowly and developed into a breathtaking wine. I think it is still 5 years from peak if well stored, and maybe a decade away from peak from magnum. Sublime wine, the greatest vintage of all to drink today arguably. Of the other vintages in scope I think the 2009 will be the next "great" vintage. It is authoritative and developing very slowly. I adore it for it's classical mould and textbook flavours. The 2013-2015 have potential but still for me I am not yet going to bestow on them in this "all time NZ great" tag. There is still plenty of debate around about how good they really are despite the sprinkling of high/perfect critics scores. Let's wait and see

2010 Stonyridge Larose. I think I have tried all but 3 vintages of this wine. Close runner up 2014. It is hard to pick a vintage, it honestly is. Honourable mentions to 2000, 2005, 2008, 2013 too. I have done 10+ vintage verticals on this wine probably 5x over the last 6-7 years. I have teased out the 2010 as it seems to be the hot vintage at auction and retail at the moment. I drank a bottle of this in Vik, Iceland 2 years ago overlooking the wild black sand beaches from my hotel room 2 years ago. The whole experience was mind bending. Exotic, generous, substantial, with flair.

2013 Puriri Hills Pope. Tried every vintage made many times. The greatest wine ever made by this top notch small Auckland producer. Winner of our wine club's best of the best 2013 bd. blend panel blind taste off final by a country mile. It also came 3rd= (out of 12)= in GK's formal 2013 bdx blend tasting even though there was something clearly amiss with the bottle he opened! It has been released to the wineries VIP club, and will be released retail before the end of the year. Although a bit left field, it certainly holds it's own against anything. A few weeks ago I had it next to the triple 100 point 2015 Ch Canon and it held its own no problems. Plush, perfectly balanced, seductive, beguiling and luxurious

2007 Neudorf Moutere Chardonnay. Tried em all since 1994. Honourable mentions to the BC 100 2014 and 2012. I think the 2007 has just the precision, detail, delicacy, weightlessness and excitement to push it to the front rank for me. Thrilling chardonnay and very long lived. Recently I have drunk the 2004, 2005 and 2006 and they are still fresh, eye-wateringly rich and vineous

2016 Kumeu River Mates Chardonnay. OMG how to choose? I have drunk the KR SV's at different ages and stages since their inception. Tried em all, bought all the top vintages. It is hard to predict which ones will shine the brightest. Had 2010 Hunting Hill a couple of times recently - stunning. Loved the 2013 Coddington. In regard to Mates, I think the best are 2004, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016. I put my money where my mouth is though most on the 2016, not as "monumental" as the 2010 or 2014 but I just think they have something very, very classy about them...and you can still buy them if you look around

Other wines that *may* potentially filter into this list after thought and future repeat tastings I think include: the gorgeous 2015 Trinity Hill Homage which I rate as perhaps the best Syrah ever made in NZ, 2010 or 2014 Craggy Range Le Sol also have the capacity clearly better wines than the early over naked vintages, 2013 Matua SV Syrah, 2013 Babich 100 year Cabernet Sauvignon (NZ's Block 42?), one of any number of vintages of the Framingham TBA's, 2014 Ata Rangi Pinot Noir, Felton Road Block 3/5 Pinots, past legends 1999 or 2001 Unison Selection, 2006 Bell Hill Pinot Noir, 1998 or 2014 Esk Valley Terraces, Dry River Gewürztraminer. I'd like as a kiwi to put a sauvignon blanc in somewhere too but I have lost touch a bit. I don't drink a lot of it I would argue left field for on you might not expect which ages exceptionally and is just so sophisticated - Te Mata Cape Crest. The best of them I think was the 2007, though it is over the hill now. 2009 I had recently lovely and the 2013 was good too - sophisticated Sauvignon

There are also a large number of very good showings from the 2013-2015 vintages that may in the future put their hands up from several wineries. Elephant Hills top bottlings from 2013 and 2014 are outstanding (both the syrah, and the merlot melbec). They are hot right now. 2013 Church Road Tom Cabernet with some age on it, the Villa Ngakirikiri needs to prove itself as a new label but seems to have the goods, 2013 Puriri Hills Harmonie du Soir.......

2004 Rockford SVS Hoffman One of those standout wines that rarely pass the lips, but when it does you remember it. Other Rockford SVS wines may also qualify. Cork gods willing.

Craig(NZ) wrote:

2010 Stonyridge Larose. I think I have tried all but 3 vintages of this wine. Close runner up 2014. It is hard to pick a vintage, it honestly is. Honourable mentions to 2000, 2005, 2008, 2013 too. I have done 10+ vintage verticals on this wine probably 5x over the last 6-7 years. I have teased out the 2010 as it seems to be the hot vintage at auction and retail at the moment. I drank a bottle of this in Vik, Iceland 2 years ago overlooking the wild black sand beaches from my hotel room 2 years ago. The whole experience was mind bending. Exotic, generous, substantial, with flair.

.....

Thanks. You have just reminded me I have a half case of the 2010 sitting under a friend’s bed in St Mary’s Bay. I’m in town later this month and now is a good time to rescue it.

Craig(NZ) wrote: 1998 Martinborough Vineyards Reserve Pinot Noir. In my opinion this is the greatest ever NZ Pinot Noir. Astonishing. A well stored bottle I would imagine is still at peak. I drank my last bottle about 4 years ago and it was sublime. The winery at one stage was buying these back from customers at $500pb after a panel blind tasting in the USA where it trumped DRC La Tache among other notables. Everything a pinot should be...highly varietal, sexy, fragrant, long, seductive. So so bloody good

What a good suggestion given the specific theme - not just fancy prestige wines, but wines that end up special without being pre-ordained as such.

I'll add to that that in it's youth it was all bones, such that I opened my first bottle of it, we had a small glass of it each and stopped there. It was too tight to be enjoyable and I half wondered whether it had low level taint, such was the imbalance. I chucked the cork back in, popped it in the cupboard under the stairs and promptly forgot about if for 10 days. At which point I picked it up and removed the cork, expecting to have a quick sip before chucking the bottle down the sink. My expectations were way off the mark, as it was still alive and well and had opened up into a real gem. I've never known a wine to survive and prosper that well over anywhere near that length of time post-opening. Usually anywhere between 1-3 days sees noticeable deterioration - and that's even when put in the fridge. This was an utterly freakish result, that I don't ever expect to experience again.

By 2008 my *other/final bottle had opened out much more, but I reckoned it had another decade in it, and it seems I may have been overly cautious.

Regards
Ian

* I wasn't always good at logging wine into CT and writing TNs. I know I got at least 2 bottles, but it might have been 3.
$500 a bottle is silly, but then so was the GBP25 that I recall paying for it back in the early 2000s (silly in the sense it should have been more expensive)

Craig(NZ) wrote:Firstly, I am not sure why the 1996 Penfolds Bin 389 is discussed in this thread. I bought a lot of this wine, and have drunk it many times over the years and although it is excellent, it's structure way too chunky to be regarded as a true great in my opinion. All you have to do to demonstrate this is put it next to a good St Henri or Grange. It isn't in the same league

That out of the way, I can add to in my experience NZ wine that will fit the bill. 1996 onward:

1998 Martinborough Vineyards Reserve Pinot Noir. In my opinion this is the greatest ever NZ Pinot Noir. Astonishing. A well stored bottle I would imagine is still at peak. I drank my last bottle about 4 years ago and it was sublime. The winery at one stage was buying these back from customers at $500pb after a panel blind tasting in the USA where it trumped DRC La Tache among other notables. Everything a pinot should be...highly varietal, sexy, fragrant, long, seductive. So so bloody good

1998 Te Mata Coleraine. Tried over 25 vintages of this wine. Decanter "Wine Legend", 1998 is an atypical Coleraine that has done everything it has promised. I have been lucky enough to try my and other peoples bottles many times over the last two decades. It has aged slowly and developed into a breathtaking wine. I think it is still 5 years from peak if well stored, and maybe a decade away from peak from magnum. Sublime wine, the greatest vintage of all to drink today arguably. Of the other vintages in scope I think the 2009 will be the next "great" vintage. It is authoritative and developing very slowly. I adore it for it's classical mould and textbook flavours. The 2013-2015 have potential but still for me I am not yet going to bestow on them in this "all time NZ great" tag. There is still plenty of debate around about how good they really are despite the sprinkling of high/perfect critics scores. Let's wait and see

2010 Stonyridge Larose. I think I have tried all but 3 vintages of this wine. Close runner up 2014. It is hard to pick a vintage, it honestly is. Honourable mentions to 2000, 2005, 2008, 2013 too. I have done 10+ vintage verticals on this wine probably 5x over the last 6-7 years. I have teased out the 2010 as it seems to be the hot vintage at auction and retail at the moment. I drank a bottle of this in Vik, Iceland 2 years ago overlooking the wild black sand beaches from my hotel room 2 years ago. The whole experience was mind bending. Exotic, generous, substantial, with flair.

2013 Puriri Hills Pope. Tried every vintage made many times. The greatest wine ever made by this top notch small Auckland producer. Winner of our wine club's best of the best 2013 bd. blend panel blind taste off final by a country mile. It also came 3rd= (out of 12)= in GK's formal 2013 bdx blend tasting even though there was something clearly amiss with the bottle he opened! It has been released to the wineries VIP club, and will be released retail before the end of the year. Although a bit left field, it certainly holds it's own against anything. A few weeks ago I had it next to the triple 100 point 2015 Ch Canon and it held its own no problems. Plush, perfectly balanced, seductive, beguiling and luxurious

2007 Neudorf Moutere Chardonnay. Tried em all since 1994. Honourable mentions to the BC 100 2014 and 2012. I think the 2007 has just the precision, detail, delicacy, weightlessness and excitement to push it to the front rank for me. Thrilling chardonnay and very long lived. Recently I have drunk the 2004, 2005 and 2006 and they are still fresh, eye-wateringly rich and vineous

2016 Kumeu River Mates Chardonnay. OMG how to choose? I have drunk the KR SV's at different ages and stages since their inception. Tried em all, bought all the top vintages. It is hard to predict which ones will shine the brightest. Had 2010 Hunting Hill a couple of times recently - stunning. Loved the 2013 Coddington. In regard to Mates, I think the best are 2004, 2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016. I put my money where my mouth is though most on the 2016, not as "monumental" as the 2010 or 2014 but I just think they have something very, very classy about them...and you can still buy them if you look around

Other wines that *may* potentially filter into this list after thought and future repeat tastings I think include: the gorgeous 2015 Trinity Hill Homage which I rate as perhaps the best Syrah ever made in NZ, 2010 or 2014 Craggy Range Le Sol also have the capacity clearly better wines than the early over naked vintages, 2013 Matua SV Syrah, 2013 Babich 100 year Cabernet Sauvignon (NZ's Block 42?), one of any number of vintages of the Framingham TBA's, 2014 Ata Rangi Pinot Noir, Felton Road Block 3/5 Pinots, past legends 1999 or 2001 Unison Selection, 2006 Bell Hill Pinot Noir, 1998 or 2014 Esk Valley Terraces, Dry River Gewürztraminer. I'd like as a kiwi to put a sauvignon blanc in somewhere too but I have lost touch a bit. I don't drink a lot of it I would argue left field for on you might not expect which ages exceptionally and is just so sophisticated - Te Mata Cape Crest. The best of them I think was the 2007, though it is over the hill now. 2009 I had recently lovely and the 2013 was good too - sophisticated Sauvignon

There are also a large number of very good showings from the 2013-2015 vintages that may in the future put their hands up from several wineries. Elephant Hills top bottlings from 2013 and 2014 are outstanding (both the syrah, and the merlot melbec). They are hot right now. 2013 Church Road Tom Cabernet with some age on it, the Villa Ngakirikiri needs to prove itself as a new label but seems to have the goods, 2013 Puriri Hills Harmonie du Soir.......

Great post Craig. Some wonderful wines there.

michel wrote:I am always intrigued by the mixed reports on 2001 Cullen DM
I have screwcap
Purchased cellar door upon release
Cellared perfectly
And they are still young and wonderful

And they won’t be any different in 5 years... and eventually they’ll fall off the perch.

Ian S wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote: 1998 Martinborough Vineyards Reserve Pinot Noir. In my opinion this is the greatest ever NZ Pinot Noir. Astonishing. A well stored bottle I would imagine is still at peak. I drank my last bottle about 4 years ago and it was sublime. The winery at one stage was buying these back from customers at $500pb after a panel blind tasting in the USA where it trumped DRC La Tache among other notables. Everything a pinot should be...highly varietal, sexy, fragrant, long, seductive. So so bloody good

What a good suggestion given the specific theme - not just fancy prestige wines, but wines that end up special without being pre-ordained as such.

I'll add to that that in it's youth it was all bones, such that I opened my first bottle of it, we had a small glass of it each and stopped there. It was too tight to be enjoyable and I half wondered whether it had low level taint, such was the imbalance. I chucked the cork back in, popped it in the cupboard under the stairs and promptly forgot about if for 10 days. At which point I picked it up and removed the cork, expecting to have a quick sip before chucking the bottle down the sink. My expectations were way off the mark, as it was still alive and well and had opened up into a real gem. I've never known a wine to survive and prosper that well over anywhere near that length of time post-opening. Usually anywhere between 1-3 days sees noticeable deterioration - and that's even when put in the fridge. This was an utterly freakish result, that I don't ever expect to experience again.

By 2008 my *other/final bottle had opened out much more, but I reckoned it had another decade in it, and it seems I may have been overly cautious.

Regards
Ian

* I wasn't always good at logging wine into CT and writing TNs. I know I got at least 2 bottles, but it might have been 3.
$500 a bottle is silly, but then so was the GBP25 that I recall paying for it back in the early 2000s (silly in the sense it should have been more expensive)

I was given a bottle of this as a gift for being best man at a wedding
it was a cracker
I even purchased another bottle from the old Prince Wine Store in Melbourne out of the glass cupboard.
and there in is the question - I have never had an exciting pinot from these guys since.
the Marie Zelie was not my cup of tea .........

I've been following this thread and, not being au courant with the current wine scene in Australia (and New Zealand), have not offered any suggestions. It is a difficult task to predict what will be a unicorn wine sometime in the future but as the thread continued to grow I felt that there was something amiss regarding what might or might not constitute a unicorn wine.

I looked up a few definitions and the most cogent and concise definition I found was from an article by Ray Isle in Food & Wine:

"First, it has to exist in small quantities. Second, it has to be hard to find. Third, wine geeks have to get really excited when they come across it, rather like maidens who come across unicorns. It helps a lot if the winemaker was legendary and is now dead, though that’s not necessarily a requirement, ditto if the wine is extremely old and/or from a region considered extremely cool by the sommelier crowd. The wine does not have to be expensive—elusiveness and coolness are more important—but regardless, most of them are."

Many of the wines being proposed here just do not fit this definition. In fact most Penfolds and Wynn's wine do not qualify for they will always be available in abundance. The same is true of many of the other wines suggested here. Also, we really don't know how these wines will develop in the future but even if they do turn out well they need to have something special that distinguishes them from all the other good wines. There will always be plenty of well-aged wines so some special quality, together with limited supply, is needed to propel a particular wine to "unicorn" status. The usual suspects, with a fine pedigree and reputation, together with cases of it squirrelled away in cellars, ought not to qualify for unicorn status.

I can think of a couple of Australian wines I've have had that I would assert were unicorn-like. First off they were delightful twenty years after they were made. Secondly, I suspect that nobody at the time, myself included, would have thought the wines would turn out as well as they did. That means there likely were very few bottles around when I got to opening my bottles, perhaps too few bottles to make them unicorn wines. They were more like desert island unicorn wines in that nobody else was around to notice. What were they? The 1975 Lindeman's Auburn Burgundy and the 1990 Balgownie Chardonnay. They were sheer delights and completely unexpected. When I had them I would have unhesitatedly recommended to anyone to buy any well cellared bottles. The Balgownie was just under 20 years of age and the Lindemands was 25 years old.

The only unicorn wine I'm confident about are my bottles of Lindemans Show Reserve Oloroso and a Yalumba Old Show 25 Year Old Oloroso Sherry. They are brilliant Australian sherry, rare as hen's teeth, and no longer made. I have a bottle of 1983 Chateau Margaux and as nice as it's supposed to be it ain't no unicorn wine compared to these sherries.

Cheers ................ Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:I

The only unicorn wine I'm confident about are my bottles of Lindemans Show Reserve Oloroso and a Yalumba Old Show 25 Year Old Oloroso Sherry. They are brilliant Australian sherry, rare as hen's teeth, and no longer made. I have a bottle of 1983 Chateau Margaux and as nice as it's supposed to be it ain't no unicorn wine compared to these sherries.

Cheers ................ Mahmoud.

great call
these are world class and I used to buy them from cellar door via a phone call
one year I rang up and said they are not making them anymore
cellar door is up for sale and the old stock will be sold off
criminal behaviour .......

As earlier mentioned, some of the Rockford SVS wines potentially fit the unicorn category. I'm confused as to what people are deciding a unicorn wine is so SVS should rate in some categories due rarity. Especially as from vineyards now lost to housing or contracted elsewhere. Helbig and Hofmann ( the blackberry beast ) whilst Flaxman patchy - though the best vintages outstanding.

I assumed the Mildara Cabernet Sauvignon 1963 was the basis for the thread. Felix's yarns over the years strike a warm envy for me. But a lot of it was made and the wine was a freak. So do we have a freak category and a unicorn category?

So I'm pleased to hear of any Australian wines that folks consider encompass both a freak/unicorn category.

the Marie Zelie was not my cup of tea .........

I haven't tried the Marie Zelie many times. It is perhaps the replacement for the Reserve which was discontinued after the 1998. I don't think the Marie Zelie is as good as the old Reserve, but I haven't tried them enough to be authoritative.

Craig are you sure the 98 Coleraine is in the exceptional to unicorn class? My last bottle was modern and plush, very good, though not seemingly classical in any sense.

JamieBahrain wrote:Craig are you sure the 98 Coleraine is in the exceptional to unicorn class? My last bottle was modern and plush, very good, though not seemingly classical in any sense.

My last bottle was absolutely amazing. That was 2.5 years ago. It seems to be topping all the vertical tastings at the moment, and the 98 Hawkes Bay horizontals. Although it is an atypical Coleraine, I think it is becoming more "classical" as it gets older and the plush puppy fat starts to drop away, but I do know what you mean.

Unicorn? As far as kiwi wine goes I think it will end up that way. It will end up being in the same class as the 87 Larose. It has without doubt ended up the best NZ bdx blend made from the top 1998 vintage. I think a magnum will live for another decade at least, perhaps even 20 years. I have three so will let you know lol

It is all speculation, but my list is my opinion used to answer the question at hand.