Mahmoud Ali wrote:My point is simple: that on any given day, in a blind tasting, there are other old vine Shiraz wines (and blends) that, with proper cellaring, may better a Hill of Grace. And the following year, or even week, the results may differ. As for the $50, it was only a spur of the moment figure, whether full retail or discount, we all buy differently. Does it matter if the wine is $30 or $70, the point being made is that a wine considerably less expensive than a HoG may, at the right time in its evolution, be equally pleasurable. Sometimes, when asked about my preferred wine in a linup of reds, I have two answers:
Bottle to take home - the wine I think has the best potential and is one I would like to take home and cellar, and
Bottle to drink - the wine I would want another bottle to drink that night, basically the one that offers the most pleasure at the time.
The same holds true, I believe, for the HoG vs other wines.
I think your reference to "the brutality of a blind format" seems odd given how thrilled you were when a Chateau Palmer fared poorly against a slew of beautifully mature Mount Mary Quintet. Strangly enough you are now on the opposite side of the same debate. Ironic, isn't it?
Cheers ................... Mahmoud.
JamieBahrain wrote:Well I'd suggest it's a pretty moot point without putting up some examples or without having experience with the wine. We are all looking for the next HofG and you see the hollow claim often though I wish philllisc luck in his new found discovery.
I see no reason why examples are necessary. Most wine drinkers who have some experience with blind tastings know full well that less fancied wines (read less expensive) can sometimes perform better their superiors. We know that theoretically an inexpensive wine may appear better on any given day. This is why it is not a stretch to say that a good old vine shiraz may, at some point in time, do better in a blind tasting than a HofG. This is why many famous wineries, Bordeaux included, do not enter their wines in competitions. Since they already have a good reputation they have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
JamieBahrain wrote:In a blind line up, HofG can be easily picked- even so against MtEd in some vintages. I've put it up against the big Northern Rhone guns blind, stands out to me, but not to others, so yep, perhaps to those without exposure they may derive more pleasure from other wines but those who know the Henschke style I doubt it.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you trying to say that only those who know and recognize Henschke are the opinions that matters in a blind tasting? Seems arrogant to me.
JamieBahrain wrote:Also, I doubt many will put it up blind in a properly structured event as I've done many times. It's too expensive. Perhaps even in the DRC class now which I've only seen put up blind once from a friend who imports it. I hope this explains my reference to the brutality of a blind format. I'm comfortable drinking HofG in a blind line-up but I'd suggest it's a waste to others.
Ahh, I see what you mean now, the brutality of price, not of the blind tasting.
JamieBahrain wrote:Get over the Palmer issue. I still think you were a goose in your posts. It was my third wine of the night from memory and the wine was prepared expertly to deliver in the moment. Thrilled? Really? Amused at some back-peddling and the presence of BDX experts I vaguely recall.
There is nothing to “get over”. I’m was merely pointing out that you thought a blind tasting was an appropriate setting to establish a wine’s bonafide. I now realize that you also agree and, as conceded above, that I misunderstood what you meant by the term brutality of blind tasting.
As for being a “goose” on the Palmer thread I think the shoe is on the other foot. The point I was making was that wines mature along different timelines and I never backtracked on that. You on the other hand kept insisting that the Palmer was a representative example, missing the point that any wine in a dumb phase should consistently present itself that way. An immature Palmer will consistently be immature no matter how many bottles are opened.
Vague is most apt since I never back-pedaled. Also the presence of Bordeaux experts was not a point of contention as I never questioned anybody’s opinion of the wine. I’m sorry to say but it seems you still don’t understand what those posts were about.
Cheers ........................ Mahmoud.
