The Auswine Forum

1976 Yalumba Signature Cabernet Shiraz... on a very short list for my Australian WOTY. The best bottle I’ve had from Yalumba in possibly... forever. Started off with mint and tobacco notes which morphed into violet and earth, before the relatively primary notes of plum and chocolate emerged. My only gripe was we drank it too quickly... who knows what else we missed out on. A rip snorter in every respect.

felixp21 wrote:Yes Craig, I fully understand. Shiraz is a great grape, and there are countless great shiraz wines out there, but it just lost it's appeal to me somewhere in my mid-30's. I can still very much appreciate it, and still enjoy the occasional bottle, but these days the only Aussie shiraz I purchase is from the Hunter Valley, but that seems to have also ceased.
I'm certainly not a knocker of Aussie Shiraz, it put Australian wine on the map, and the wine industry as a whole can count their lucky stars the mystifying government incentives to rip old vine shiraz out all those years ago proved largely unsuccessful.

I am in a very similar space, except it's so rare to see hunter valley wines here (except some cheaper semillons) that even these have fallen off our radar.

There have always been isolated pockets that appeal and the blue fruit / black fruit is a useful shorthand for me - though I'm probably much more towards the black fruit spectrum.

I am however very out of touch with what you'd call 'new wave' Aussie wines, and I know there has been a movement to make wines that aren't simply big and ripe. Lower alcohol, natural, or simply trying to innovate / make something different. So I've got a question:

What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

Regards
Ian

Ian, I am going to cop a lot of flak for this, but my advice would be to take everything you hear about the "new wave" shiraz winemakers producing far better wines with a massive grain of salt. No doubt you will be told to have a look at the likes of Standish, Sami Odi, Ochotoa Barrels, Luke Lambert, Strenua and the like being much better balanced and truer to terroir, but I couldn't agree less. They are still pretty one-dimensional fruit bombs, although the drinker is spared the assault of vanilla oak. Was at a dinner over in Carlton when down in Aus a few months ago, and a Sami-Odi Dallwitz was thrown in amongst an eclectic bunch of reds, pretty well undrinkable to me. Mind you, it came after an 05 Palmer, so perhaps a little unfair.

If I had to recommend one, I would take a look at Head wines, in the Barossa, he is making some decent stuff, especially an old-vine grenache which is well away from the Aussie norm. His shiraz isn't as good, but it's the best "new-wave" stuff I've come across.
Forgetting shiraz for a second, I'd also recommend Koerner wines out of the Clare Valley, they are making some beautiful and interesting whites.

Dare I say it but Tasmanian Syrah might be on the move, I've tried a few lately and found them bright and lively, lean without green, and nicely spiced...Glaetzer Dixon, Marion's Vineyard and Meadowbank I all enjoyed...quantities pretty small though so probably hard to track down for you Ian

Ian S wrote:What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

My first choice would be Castagna, followed by Duval's.

Mahmoud.

Ian S wrote:What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

A few others that haven't been mentioned yet -- Craiglee, Serrat, Giaconda, Best's, Mount Langi Ghiran, Clonakilla

Ozzie W wrote:

Ian S wrote:What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

A few others that haven't been mentioned yet -- Craiglee, Serrat, Giaconda, Best's, Mount Langi Ghiran, Clonakilla

Another vote for Clonakilla here. I'd also recommend Spinifex Barossa Syrah.

Hi TJ2
Tassie shiraz certainly sounds like it has the potential, though I've never tried one. The Glaetzer wines I've tried have all been very fruit rich (and fully oaked, but I've not had the Dixon). Not bad wines at all, but very much not my preferred style. The other two I've not tried.

Hi Felix
Interesting - At times I have felt a disconnect that lean/elegant means something different to Aussie wine critics than I get from the same wine, and that includes Jeremy Oliver who seemed for a while to be painted as the europhile of the wine scene, yet still favoured the big reds from South Australia.

Hi Mahmoud
I've not tried any of John Duval's own wines, but (perhaps mistakenly) had assumed that as ex-Penfolds Grange, he would be aiming for wines in the same mould. Perhaps controversially I'd say that the success / repute of Grange has overly influenced the Aussie wine scene (and not just the Shiraz). Castagna I've not tried but definitely aware of them (they make a Sangiovese as well IIRC?).

Hi Ozzie
Yes Bests and Craiglee are both much more in my style slot. I've never tasted Giaconda or Clonakilla, but defintitely aware of both. Serrat is a new name to me though!

Regards
Ian

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I think drinking properly aged Australian shiraz from many producers meets the requirement. Extended cellaring mellows and neatly rounds off initially balanced styles- and what starts off near full bodied after 20 years or so becomes so soft and supple, the transformation enough to give way toward a gentler expression. Certainly, the other night, 1990 and 1991 Jim Barry Armagh which I drank in plentiful glasses, was as easy going as a medium bodied French syrah half its age say.

Yes Castagna and Clonakilla need to be on your radar.

There are some really good ones appearing from cooler areas now - Serrat already mentioned, also look at Tom Carson's Yabby Lake Shiraz (not the Heathcote Estate one - the Yabby Lake one), and even out of Geelong, places like Oakdene make a very credible Syrah style.

Tassie may have potential, and the Glaetzer Dixon wines have shown well. But the cooler climate isn't a free pass, the winemaking will still need to be sensitive. I've seen too many 14.5% pinot noirs from cool areas, syrah could go the same way,

Really appreciating the suggestions!

D'arenberg dead arm shiraz 2010. Delicious. Brooding, savory, slight burnt rubber nose. Well integrated palate, linear with no holes, the finish is particularly noteworthy for its intensity. 14% alcohol.

A few wines for the Festival of Birthday Day 2

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/bv09s6ND/545-DE473-34-F ... 68-B84.jpg[/img]

NV Krug Grande Cuvee
1954 Seppelts Sparkling Red Burgundy
1991 Wynn’s Michael Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin920 Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin90A Coonawarra Cabernet Barossa Shiraz
1954 Wynn’s Cabernet
1982 Penfolds Bin707 Cabernet
1996 Grant Burge Shadrach Cabernet

Sadly the Seppelts Sparkling Burgundy was flat and a little porty, the Krug was stunning, all of the reds in excellent nick, just a privilege to drink the Wynn’s Cabernet, fortunately a “great” bottle.

FOB Day 3 off to the footy with n4sir to see if the Blues can knock off the Eagles

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mjs wrote:A few wines for the Festival of Birthday Day 2

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/bv09s6ND/545-DE473-34-F ... 68-B84.jpg[/img]

NV Krug Grande Cuvee
1954 Seppelts Sparkling Red Burgundy
1991 Wynn’s Michael Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin920 Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin90A Coonawarra Cabernet Barossa Shiraz
1954 Wynn’s Cabernet
1982 Penfolds Bin707 Cabernet
1996 Grant Burge Shadrach Cabernet

Sadly the Seppelts Sparkling Burgundy was flat and a little porty, the Krug was stunning, all of the reds in excellent nick, just a privilege to drink the Wynn’s Cabernet, fortunately a “great” bottle.

FOB Day 3 off to the footy with n4sir to see if the Blues can knock off the Eagles

Impressive line up

Mike Hawkins wrote:

mjs wrote:A few wines for the Festival of Birthday Day 2

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/bv09s6ND/545-DE473-34-F ... 68-B84.jpg[/img]

NV Krug Grande Cuvee
1954 Seppelts Sparkling Red Burgundy
1991 Wynn’s Michael Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin920 Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin90A Coonawarra Cabernet Barossa Shiraz
1954 Wynn’s Cabernet
1982 Penfolds Bin707 Cabernet
1996 Grant Burge Shadrach Cabernet

Sadly the Seppelts Sparkling Burgundy was flat and a little porty, the Krug was stunning, all of the reds in excellent nick, just a privilege to drink the Wynn’s Cabernet, fortunately a “great” bottle.

FOB Day 3 off to the footy with n4sir to see if the Blues can knock off the Eagles

Impressive line up

Agree, lovely line up.

Glad the 54 Wynn's Cabernet showed well.

Cheers Con.

A dinner on Friday featured the following wines:

• 1995 Bollinger Champagne R.D. Extra Brut -- fabulous, but needs food rather than an aperitif style.
• 1998 Domaine Comte Georges de Vogüé Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru -- excellent, but still needs more time.
• 1999 Louis Jadot Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru Clos St. Jacques -- magnificent and right in the zone in terms of drinking window.
• 1998 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande -- drinking really well now and should hold for many years.
• 2011 Giuseppe E Figlio Mascarello Barolo Villero -- wonderful drinking, but tasted more like a Barbaresco in style to me. Very light and elegant. Was supposed to be the Monprivato but there was a bottle mix-up.
• 1983 Château Canon -- still providing drinking pleasure, but on the decline.
• 1996 Château Nairac -- oxidised.
• 2005 Château Doisy-Daëne -- lovely Sauternes.
• 1985 Taylor (Fladgate) Porto Vintage -- in a good spot now but no rush to drink.

The Burgundies and Barolo were my favourites of the night.

[url=https://postimg.cc/SYfRMQ7M][img]https://i.postimg.cc/SYfRMQ7M/IMG-20190802-183903.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/kVJ0JJDH][img]https://i.postimg.cc/kVJ0JJDH/IMG-20190802-185806.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/SnMs6Gr4][img]https://i.postimg.cc/SnMs6Gr4/IMG-20190802-193157.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/8sJqPnPT][img]https://i.postimg.cc/8sJqPnPT/IMG-20190802-195735.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/t1c2Kp6W][img]https://i.postimg.cc/t1c2Kp6W/IMG-20190802-202222.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/kRK1NzB8][img]https://i.postimg.cc/kRK1NzB8/IMG-20190802-203613.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/sQNdHkjN][img]https://i.postimg.cc/sQNdHkjN/IMG-20190802-214027.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/fSS4G8kT][img]https://i.postimg.cc/fSS4G8kT/IMG-20190802-214054.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://postimg.cc/f3MNV7qB][img]https://i.postimg.cc/f3MNV7qB/IMG-20190802-220123.jpg[/img][/url]

mjs wrote:A few wines for the Festival of Birthday Day 2

NV Krug Grande Cuvee
1954 Seppelts Sparkling Red Burgundy
1991 Wynn’s Michael Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin920 Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin90A Coonawarra Cabernet Barossa Shiraz
1954 Wynn’s Cabernet
1982 Penfolds Bin707 Cabernet
1996 Grant Burge Shadrach Cabernet

Sadly the Seppelts Sparkling Burgundy was flat and a little porty, the Krug was stunning, all of the reds in excellent nick, just a privilege to drink the Wynn’s Cabernet, fortunately a “great” bottle.

FOB Day 3 off to the footy with n4sir to see if the Blues can knock off the Eagles

Nice drinking and Happy Birthday!

Ozzie W wrote:

mjs wrote:A few wines for the Festival of Birthday Day 2

NV Krug Grande Cuvee
1954 Seppelts Sparkling Red Burgundy
1991 Wynn’s Michael Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin920 Coonawarra Cabernet Shiraz
1990 Penfolds Bin90A Coonawarra Cabernet Barossa Shiraz
1954 Wynn’s Cabernet
1982 Penfolds Bin707 Cabernet
1996 Grant Burge Shadrach Cabernet

Sadly the Seppelts Sparkling Burgundy was flat and a little porty, the Krug was stunning, all of the reds in excellent nick, just a privilege to drink the Wynn’s Cabernet, fortunately a “great” bottle.

FOB Day 3 off to the footy with n4sir to see if the Blues can knock off the Eagles

Nice drinking and Happy Birthday!

Thanks Ozzie, see you Friday

Yes happy birthday Malcolm, still searching out a 65 BL, perhaps I can give Con a spotters fee
Sorry I did not catch up last weekend, had a full card whilst in Melbourne and great that the Bluebaggers 'thumped' the Crows.
Will be very interesting if Adelaide gets within four goals against West Coast this week...admittedly the damage was done either side of the the half with 8 unanswered majors.

Cheers craig

phillisc wrote:Yes happy birthday Malcolm, still searching out a 65 BL, perhaps I can give Con a spotters fee
Sorry I did not catch up last weekend, had a full card whilst in Melbourne and great that the Bluebaggers 'thumped' the Crows.
Will be very interesting if Adelaide gets within four goals against West Coast this week...admittedly the damage was done either side of the the half with 8 unanswered majors.

Cheers craig

Was at the 'G' for this one. Oh how sweet it was.
Had a few frothies after to celebrate.

Scotty vino wrote:

phillisc wrote:Yes happy birthday Malcolm, still searching out a 65 BL, perhaps I can give Con a spotters fee
Sorry I did not catch up last weekend, had a full card whilst in Melbourne and great that the Bluebaggers 'thumped' the Crows.
Will be very interesting if Adelaide gets within four goals against West Coast this week...admittedly the damage was done either side of the the half with 8 unanswered majors.

Cheers craig

Was at the 'G' for this one. Oh how sweet it was.
Had a few frothies after to celebrate.

Sorry I missed you as well...yes had a few Peroni Reds and a Pikes Sangiovese at Guy Grossi's over a big bowl of pasta and an antipasto spread...had to shout the loser Crows supporter dinner!

Cheers craig

Ozzie W wrote:

Ian S wrote:What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

A few others that haven't been mentioned yet -- Craiglee, Serrat, Giaconda, Best's, Mount Langi Ghiran, Clonakilla

I had a 2006 Giaconda Warners Vineyard on the weekend, and I found the oak too pronounced for my liking.

2010 Wantirna Estate Amelia Cabernet Merlot.

Beautiful Yarra Cabernet. In a great spot right now, but a long slow life ahead of it. Reminds me of the great Mt Mary Cabernets, as this was smooth, ripe, seamless in its integration.

Sevenhill Tokay or is it topaque?? just right with homemade caramel muffins!
cheers craig

Scotty vino wrote:

phillisc wrote:Yes happy birthday Malcolm, still searching out a 65 BL, perhaps I can give Con a spotters fee
Sorry I did not catch up last weekend, had a full card whilst in Melbourne and great that the Bluebaggers 'thumped' the Crows.
Will be very interesting if Adelaide gets within four goals against West Coast this week...admittedly the damage was done either side of the the half with 8 unanswered majors.

Cheers craig

Was at the 'G' for this one. Oh how sweet it was.
Had a few frothies after to celebrate.

Scotty,

I was there as well, you should have let me know! We could have celebrated!

cheers, Malcolm

Ian S wrote:
What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

Regards
Ian

Aussie shiraz is so much more than those big muscular South Australian fruit bombs.

I would look at shiraz from the Grampians, Yarra Valley, Geelong, Hunter Valley, Coonawarra (very different to most other SA regions), and Great Southern. Shiraz from these regions is more elegant and food-friendly.

I Love Shiraz wrote:

Ian S wrote:
What Aussie Shiraz wines would people recommend to try, that are anything but the big & ripe blue fruited wines that you'd normally associate with (say) Barossa and McLaren Vale? What is bright, refreshing or more like a lean long distance runner, not a muscular sprinter?

Regards
Ian

Aussie shiraz is so much more than those big muscular South Australian fruit bombs.

I would look at shiraz from the Grampians, Yarra Valley, Geelong, Hunter Valley, Coonawarra (very different to most other SA regions), and Great Southern. Shiraz from these regions is more elegant and food-friendly.

I see you don't mention Margaret River. FWIW I'd agree in the sense of there is little of it, and what I've tried has often been underwhelming. Unless things have changed in the last decade?

Of those listed, I think Yarra Valley shiraz is something I don't think I've tried. Coonawarra shiraz has yet to excite, but plenty I've not tried though and I agree that Coonawarra is often a distance apart from the rest of SA in style. Oddly though, I've had decent luck with Langhorne Creek, and I'm not sure I can suggest logic as to why.

The other regions listed - yes these are where I've found a number of wines that appeal (and throw in little Sunbury as well). I really ought to try Canberra area as well, plus Tassie.

Opened a 2015 Bicknell FC "Applecross" Pinot Noir the other day. Yarra Valley.

12.7% and 100% whole bunch, which Dave has told me was a result of getting the shits, as birds ate most of the crop, so just threw it all in to ferment. Later vintages less whole bunch.

It is light bodied as you might expect, red fruits filling out with a little age; the whole bunch influence is prominent but I enjoy it. The structure is impressive, the acidity is shimmering and the tannin is really good, like superfine sandpaper, and insistent. If you enjoy more boney Pinot this is a good one to try.

Will