The Auswine Forum

phillisc wrote:

sjw_11 wrote:It pains me to do this but I am going to give a gong to Grosset not so much on the absolute pricing (although its getting hefty) but for the rapid increases-

The 2016 Gaia, just released, now weighs in at $87/bottle vs last year $75 and the year before $74- an 18% price increase over 2-yrs.

Looking back in my records, the 2010 in 2013 was just $60/bottle- a 6.4% per annum increase. Almost approaching Penfolds-esque levels of escalation.

Yes and the Riesling prices of 60 dollars are just stupid too.
Of all the Grosset I have, about 2 mixed dozen of different PH and WV vintages and a couple of 6 packs of the Gaia, I have never purchased a bottle from the CD...the chains are always cheaper...sometimes considerably. Suspect it won't be long before we see the hundred dollar Clare or EV Rizza...bet the marketing wizz kids at Henschke have been pondering that one for a while now.

cheers craig

Careful what you wish for. John Hughes aka Riesling Freak has just released his first No. 1, a 2017 CV Riesling, $100 a pop. Limited release, limited quantity.

Discuss.

Matt@5453 wrote:

phillisc wrote:

sjw_11 wrote:It pains me to do this but I am going to give a gong to Grosset not so much on the absolute pricing (although its getting hefty) but for the rapid increases-

The 2016 Gaia, just released, now weighs in at $87/bottle vs last year $75 and the year before $74- an 18% price increase over 2-yrs.

Looking back in my records, the 2010 in 2013 was just $60/bottle- a 6.4% per annum increase. Almost approaching Penfolds-esque levels of escalation.

Yes and the Riesling prices of 60 dollars are just stupid too.
Of all the Grosset I have, about 2 mixed dozen of different PH and WV vintages and a couple of 6 packs of the Gaia, I have never purchased a bottle from the CD...the chains are always cheaper...sometimes considerably. Suspect it won't be long before we see the hundred dollar Clare or EV Rizza...bet the marketing wizz kids at Henschke have been pondering that one for a while now.

cheers craig

Careful what you wish for. John Hughes aka Riesling Freak has just released his first No. 1, a 2017 CV Riesling, $100 a pop. Limited release, limited quantity.

Discuss.

Ok I will play...

The three most expensive Aussie Rieslings I have bought are the Polish Hill (whatever it was last year- $50-something?), the Helm Premium reserve (which was about $50 and was one of the best I have ever tried) and the Pooley Reserve (which was about $42, and again something I tried at cellar door).
On reflection, an eclectic selection.

Apart from Grosset where you buy the track record, I am not sure I would pay over $40 without having specifically tried it and being blown away. I am not sure I could justify $100 even then.
When you have things like Petaluma with a historic label + track record + quality (which there often is) available at c$20/bottle it is hard to justify.

Matt need to be careful here...late in the day, have just finished a beautiful bottle of 2016 Black Dog Big Fat and Gutsy, Blewett Springs and Willunga Shiraz....bloody fantastic...made by a bloke who gives Roger Pike a hand each year at Marius.

John Hughes is a nice bloke unassuming and have met him a couple of times. Correct me if I am wrong but some of the vineyards have been in family hands for a while. Riesling at $100 leaves me to believe if its such a small make, why not price it so it sells out and leaves punters wanting more on the next release. When they don't sell at this price hard to move south. To me wines of this nature are largely curios, certainly when I can buy the other 8-10 he makes for $20-50....there is zero interest in a $100 release...and I love Riesling
Poor move if you ask me, and perhaps sits in the unpopular opinion wine thread, recent success at both the Sydney and Clare shows is starting to go to his head...thought he was better than that.

Cheers Craig

If he was making a BA or Tba style riesling, then $100 would an ok price and the wine might be worth trying. Can’t see any market for a home produced dry Riesling at this price point though.

phillisc wrote:Matt need to be careful here...late in the day, have just finished a beautiful bottle of 2016 Black Dog Big Fat and Gutsy, Blewett Springs and Willunga Shiraz....bloody fantastic...made by a bloke who gives Roger Pike a hand each year at Marius.

John Hughes is a nice bloke unassuming and have met him a couple of times. Correct me if I am wrong but some of the vineyards have been in family hands for a while. Riesling at $100 leaves me to believe if its such a small make, why not price it so it sells out and leaves punters wanting more on the next release. When they don't sell at this price hard to move south. To me wines of this nature are largely curios, certainly when I can buy the other 8-10 he makes for $20-50....there is zero interest in a $100 release...and I love Riesling
Poor move if you ask me, and perhaps sits in the unpopular opinion wine thread, recent success at both the Sydney and Clare shows is starting to go to his head...thought he was better than that.

Cheers Craig

Courtesy of the Wine Wankers Social Media account:

Will this #wine become Australia’s best Riesling?
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Rieslingfreak has fast become one of the most sort after wine labels for sommeliers and Riesling geeks in the know. For the past ten years, John Hughes has released Rieslingfreak wines numbered from 2 to 10, but there has never been a number 1 - that is until now. We caught up with John recently and were one of the first people in the world to try it. Ten years in the making; John did not want to release this wine until it could justify it’s #1 positioning.
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Only 128 dozen have been made of the 2017 Rieslingfreak No.1 Grounds of Grandeur Clare Valley Riesling, and the price is reflective of its scarcity, $100 (released Sept 2019 - place your oders now!).
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The best Riesling grapes, sourced from the best single vineyard, from the best region in Australia, for that year. Yep - it could come from Clare Valley, Eden Valley - or even elsewhere).
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And here’s where things get a little freaky - the wine is feremented and aged in a well seasoned 1,500 L barrel. It was a wild ferment. 8 months on lees, 19 months in oak. And then bottled.
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So what does it taste like?! One word: ethereal.
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It’s a masterpiece - such a full complete palate, great line of flavour and acidity.

This is a crazy-good food Riesling - it won’t be to everyone’s liking - but Riesling freaks around the world will be knocking down the door to taste this.


I say good on John for pushing the boundaries, 2017 was a remarkable Riesling vintage, I would not envisage it ro be an annual release, I could be wrong. Would I pay $100, no, but I am sure there will be quite a few who do.
Jim Barry are doing a project with Dr Loosen, will be interesting to see the results of this one too.

19 months in oak...if I want that in a white I will buy Semillion
Expect the Barry experiment may get out of hand...I'd be looking at 2 bottles of Florita or 4 Clos Clare's long before.
They tell me that the much over priced Amargh is buy 2 get one free deal these days. I'll stick with The Merle...at sub $40 for club members head and shoulders above anything else.
Cheers
Craig

Sad thing about this, is that’s it’s actually the market price. I drank this wine at a dinner a few years ago. Nice wine, but from memory it wasn’t the wine of the evening. Add on a buyers premium and you are looking at $15k per bottle. It’s a 99 Corton Charlemange if you can’t read the label.

Not even the most expensive bottle from the auction - a mag of 05 Romani Conti went for approx $105k. Madness.

A good friend was working at the auction and managed to try some mature white and red Leroy wines.. lucky boy. Will be interesting to see how Sotheby’s Super Auction goes - prices in Belgium were high as the Provenace and storage were perfect.

So much money about. Couple of Geelong Grammar boarders got Dad's private jet to HKG and ordered 20,000 USD bottle of DRC off the wine list atop of the ICC Kowloon recently. My mate's son was there to witness teasing his father who never has had the pleasure of DRC. We ( my mate whose son enjoyed the lunch ) both boarded there together as well but never witnessed such excessive wealth. Old money was less ostentatious.

Sooooo much money about for so few labels.

If I look at that image two things spring to mind...
Is this an automobile auction..."next up an old Jag, 50 000 anyone?"
Secondly, the look on the chap's face, "what the fuck am I doing here...the bloke with the money can do his own bidding next time "

Cheers craig

JamieBahrain wrote:So much money about. Couple of Geelong Grammar boarders got Dad's private jet to HKG and ordered 20,000 USD bottle of DRC off the wine list atop of the ICC Kowloon recently. My mate's son was there to witness teasing his father who never has had the pleasure of DRC. We ( my mate whose son enjoyed the lunch ) both boarded there together as well but never witnessed such excessive wealth. Old money was less ostentatious.

Sooooo much money about for so few labels.

hehe, my sons went to Geelong Grammar and they have many such similar stories
you gotta hand it to the school though, they have the billionaire Asian school-kid market cornered. To be honest though, in terms of ostentatious wealth, the Honkie billionaires have absolutely nothing on the Singapore and Malaysian billionaires.

phillisc wrote:If I look at that image two things spring to mind...
Is this an automobile auction..."next up an old Jag, 50 000 anyone?"
Cheers craig

Spot in Craig. An old Belgian wine supplier went bankrupt last year and they have over a 130k bottles to sell on. The executor of the auction normally sell cranes, cars and 2nd hand office equipment. They got a specialist in to help with some of the ‘special’ wine, and this was the first such sale. Imagine that most of the normal wine will be sold via the standard online auction next to the cars, drills etc

mychurch wrote:

phillisc wrote:If I look at that image two things spring to mind...
Is this an automobile auction..."next up an old Jag, 50 000 anyone?"
Cheers craig

Spot in Craig. An old Belgian wine supplier went bankrupt last year and they have over a 130k bottles to sell on. The executor of the auction normally sell cranes, cars and 2nd hand office equipment. They got a specialist in to help with some of the ‘special’ wine, and this was the first such sale. Imagine that most of the normal wine will be sold via the standard online auction next to the cars, drills etc

Yes, the monitor looks very very temporary and said auction house white walls a far cry from the more 'posh' images of Christies or Southerby's auction houses.
Cheers Craig

The auction was actually in an old castle - that’s why the walls are a bit odd.
As well as helping out catalogueing the wine, my friend helped tutor the vip tasting, which is attached. No idea id how much it cost, but these wines go for a lot of money nowadays

Mount Mary JDWM Cabernet 2015.
Only $549/bottle.

Ozzie W wrote:Mount Mary JDWM Cabernet 2015.
Only $549/bottle.

I'd happily bet they have no issues selling this out.

Ozzie W wrote:Mount Mary JDWM Cabernet 2015.
Only $549/bottle.

yea, lol, good luck to them if they can sell it. Priced at high-end 2nd Growth Bordeaux levels, and that's post en primeur pricing.

MM simply cashing in on the "limited edition" and "super cuvee" model that is now seen just about everywhere across the globe. What is really interesting to me, however, is when you compare these super cuvees to the standard bottling 25+ years down the track... it usually goes 50-50 as to which is actually the better wine, in my experience. 1990 Wynns BL vs John Riddoch is a classic example, Cullen 94 vs Cullen 94 Reserve being another.

Still, if you want to spend $500+ on an Aussie cabernet, then go ahead and make my day!!!

Out of interest, the same 2015 is a truly excellent Bordeaux vintage, IMO, quite comparable to 1982 especially in that the wines are so approachable early on. The EP cost of 2015 Pichon Lalande up here was $145, so effectively, you could have purchased a case of PLL for almost the same as three bottles of the Mount Mary JDWM. I haven't seen the MM super cuvee yet, but I would bet London to a brick it won't be in the same class as this amazing PLL, which in my book is as good as the famous 82. Head scratching stuff. Yet people still seem outraged by Bordeaux prices.

Sadly, I fear, we will start to see Bordeaux "super cuvees" in the very near future.

cteague wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:Mount Mary JDWM Cabernet 2015.
Only $549/bottle.

I'd happily bet they have no issues selling this out.

not so sure about that. That is a lot of cash, and don't look to China for salvation, the wine boom for uber-high end wine outside of Burgundy has come to a grinding halt, reflecting the current state of the economy up here.
I can walk to any of the local wine stores here and pick up unlimited numbers of about 10 vintages of Grange and 707, so some sucker is paying plenty to have that unmovable stock on their inventory. Not sure they will be welcoming another $500+ Aussie wine on their list. If they can sell it in Australia, I would be both happy for the winery owners and sad to think that my country has so many suckers.

felixp21 wrote: If they can sell it in Australia, I would be both happy for the winery owners and sad to think that my country has so many suckers.

Amen!

Sure, some can do it as a novelty, but not everybody?

I know, I know, stop banging on about Piedmont and a personal obsession. But this region, with all its fame and emerging glory, has under half a dozen wines at this price?

350 euro.... c'mon !

felixp21 wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:Mount Mary JDWM Cabernet 2015.
Only $549/bottle.

yea, lol, good luck to them if they can sell it. Priced at high-end 2nd Growth Bordeaux levels, and that's post en primeur pricing.

MM simply cashing in on the "limited edition" and "super cuvee" model that is now seen just about everywhere across the globe

Don't get your knickers in too much of a knot. Ozzie conveniently neglected to state it's a one off release to celebrate 40 years of winemaking, very limited quantity.
Not sure they are 'cashing in' as you put it, give them more credit than that.

yes had a look on the MM website and could not see it...guess you need to be a member!
Still I'd rather the 2 2016 magnums of Quintet than this.

Cheers
Craig

Matt@5453 wrote:

felixp21 wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:Mount Mary JDWM Cabernet 2015.
Only $549/bottle.

yea, lol, good luck to them if they can sell it. Priced at high-end 2nd Growth Bordeaux levels, and that's post en primeur pricing.

MM simply cashing in on the "limited edition" and "super cuvee" model that is now seen just about everywhere across the globe

... very limited quantity...
Not sure they are 'cashing in' as you put it, give them more credit than that.

Mount Mary is getting plenty of credit...from their accountant, that is.

Getting an extra $180k-$270k (depending on wholesale/retail sales mix) just by setting aside 2 barrels from Quintet and slapping on a new sticker. Pretty huge amount of money from 649 bottles. It's their right to set price, it's the public's right to call BS/egregious on the pricing.

tarija wrote:

Matt@5453 wrote:

felixp21 wrote:
yea, lol, good luck to them if they can sell it. Priced at high-end 2nd Growth Bordeaux levels, and that's post en primeur pricing.

MM simply cashing in on the "limited edition" and "super cuvee" model that is now seen just about everywhere across the globe

... very limited quantity...
Not sure they are 'cashing in' as you put it, give them more credit than that.

Mount Mary is getting plenty of credit...from their accountant, that is.

Getting an extra $180k-$270k (depending on wholesale/retail sales mix) just by setting aside 2 barrels from Quintet and slapping on a new sticker. Pretty huge amount of money from 649 bottles. It's their right to set price, it's the public's right to call BS/egregious on the pricing.

Relax, go and have a read of the "how much have you paid for a bottle of wine" thread

The market decides. People keep buying Hill of Grace at $900/bottle when the cost to produce to Henschke is likely about $30-40 so go figure.

felixp21 wrote:Yet people still seem outraged by Bordeaux prices.

I'm "outraged" by all overpriced wines!

In fact I'm still in denial about having spent $142 for a Krug Brut Rose and thoughts of returning/exchanging it still enter my mind. There were a pair of NV Bruno Paillard Premier Cuvée in the same store that could be had for under a hundred.

felixp21 wrote:Sadly, I fear, we will start to see Bordeaux "super cuvees" in the very near future.

I hope not. I prefer they continue the way they have, by introducing second and third wines, thereby upholding and perhaps improving the Chateau wine. Just yesterday I was at an in-store tasting where a St Emilion wine was showcased. We were told by the agent that the wine we were drinking was made in an early to drink style but upon checking the next day I discovered that it was in fact their second wine. They used to make a reserve bottling but in 2015 gave up on it and went back to putting the best lots back into their main cuvee.

I have to say that I think it was disingenuous for the agents to not to have used the term second wine to describe the bottling since this is so much a part of the Bordeaux scene and is an integral part of raising quality of the main cuvees. They still could have talked up the wine and the quality that went into it the making.

Mahmoud.

PS: I just realized that there may be people who would like to know which St Emillion I was talking about. It was the 2014 Chateau Haut Brisson 'Le Grave' Grand Cru, Saint-Emilion.

Unpopular wine opinion... why would anybody buy MM cabs unless thin and green is your thing... ( I know, not all vintages are, but it’s a wine like Cullen that is over rated)

Mike Hawkins wrote:Unpopular wine opinion... why would anybody buy MM cabs unless thin and green is your thing... ( I know, not all vintages are, but it’s a wine like Cullen that is over rated)

In the past 2-3 years I've had 2001, 1999, 1998, 1994, 1990 MM and they were all great every time. Can't say I've had the same success/enjoyment from Cullen.

Ozzie W wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:Unpopular wine opinion... why would anybody buy MM cabs unless thin and green is your thing... ( I know, not all vintages are, but it’s a wine like Cullen that is over rated)

In the past 2-3 years I've had 2001, 1999, 1998, 1994, 1990 MM and they were all great every time. Can't say I've had the same success/enjoyment from Cullen.

Some people like fruit bombs, I guess I like my wine thin and green because I've had some great MM and I've had some great old Cullen's also.

Each to their own I think.

Cheers Con.

Wine is a funny thing. I think MM is in the top 4 wineries in the country atm. The last 5ish vintages for the Quintet are phenomenal wines.

Had some amazing older vintages too.

Con J wrote:

Ozzie W wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:Unpopular wine opinion... why would anybody buy MM cabs unless thin and green is your thing... ( I know, not all vintages are, but it’s a wine like Cullen that is over rated)

In the past 2-3 years I've had 2001, 1999, 1998, 1994, 1990 MM and they were all great every time. Can't say I've had the same success/enjoyment from Cullen.

Some people like fruit bombs, I guess I like my wine thin and green because I've had some great MM and I've had some great old Cullen's also.

Each to their own I think.

Cheers Con.

Absolutely Con...

Move over Grange and Hill of Grace. The inaugural vintage (2014) of Taylors The Legacy.... yours for only $1000!
They're so worried Rudy is going to make a counterfeit they've included as a bonus a fancy security seal with embedded NFC chip.