The Auswine Forum

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:37 am**

Pat Burton's Wine Berserkers thread is worthy of a re-mention. It's a wiki style attempt to broadly categorise producers across the modernist to traditionalist spectrum. He did a really good job in avoiding insinuations of good / bad, just a fine attempt to indicate the general style.

I must admit I'm still very comfortable with Traditional, not least because I really enjoy cellaring wines and know roughly what to expect from a traditionally made wine in both ageability and what emerges (with luck) at the end.

That said, the only styles I tend to ignore are the hardcore modernists, as much for a fear of compromised ageability (in return for soft accessibility in youth), as to fears of the oak impact never receding. That said, some of the true modernists have wines where coffee/cocoa flavours seem very persistent over time, so that is a worry. In other wines it would be less of an issue, but for my palate it seems to compromise the aromatics.

I really enjoy the wines of Mauro Molino, 'lean-modern' IIRC in Pat's thread, and being a neighbour of Altare, not surprising that they lean that way. Others have been put off by oak in youth more than me (and notice those aromas more than me).

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:36 am**

This is what I find interesting Ian, the oak really does drift off in support at true maturation for many of these wines. True maturation just being a long way, away for most drinkers, and I am aware, modernist oak usage is to make the wines more approachable and drinkable in youth.

My aversion to uber-modernists, small French oak barrels especially, is I get migraine headches after half a bottle. Very noticable in the land where you can truly over-indulge and awake with no hangover.

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:10 pm**

I get contacted a bit by forumites coming to HKG and am happy to try and help. I thought you all might find this interesting.

As per Jamie’s comments, 99% of Monfortino I see pre 1982 is counterfeit. I sell none, I touch none.
The only Monfortino I have in stock right now is a 2002 dmag (3L) @ HK$21,000.
I do a lot authentication work and prior to setting up my business here, was running Christie’s Wine .....

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:56 pm**

Gaja sounds like it is heading away from oakiness anyway now that the daughters have taken over. Remving Barbera from Barbaresco's too so back into the fold so to speak.

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:59 pm**

2006 Antonio Vallana e Figlio Gattinara- I just had a truck load of Italians delivered. It's been a long journey for them and they need a few months to settle but hunting that next nebbiolo hit, impatiently I cracked one of these, from the beautiful Vercelli.

I as very pleased initially, the wine showed great complexity aromatically though a little thing and gritty which I put down the a few months at sea. But wow! After a few hours in the decanter the wine builds even muscle across the palate, delivering superb nebbiolo in a very modest price bracket.

92pts+

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:08 am**

Ah Vallana, subject of an interesting discussion on Wine Berserkers at the moment, as usual touching on the widespread rumours that the old wines were part Campanian Aglianico. Whatever was in them, they were special, in a way I have yet to see any glimpse of in modern era Vallanas (they are good / interesting but a different wine to the old gems). The labels however remain such a joy. 2006 did seem a very good vintage in Gattinara and nearby Ghemme, so really pleased to hear this bottle exceeded expectations.

p.s. talking of Vercelli, home of risotto rice production, an amazingly large industry, it's also unsurprisingly unsuitable for those who mosquitoes like to dine on. Loads of the buggers in the region. If anyone does fly into Milano Malpensa airport, it's really very convenient for Gattinara, Ghemme, Fara etc. and in addition to Vercelli, Novara is a really charming and relaxed city, unblighted by tourism.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:31 am**

I wish Beserkers broken up into regions. I missed that discussion. I find it hard work droning through boring posts there to get to the good-guff on Piedmont.

What happened to the old guy that posted on Piedmont, often a little controversially? I loved his posts. He's banned?

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:56 am**

JamieBahrain wrote:I wish Beserkers broken up into regions. I missed that discussion. I find it hard work droning through boring posts there to get to the good-guff on Piedmont.

What happened to the old guy that posted on Piedmont, often a little controversially? I loved his posts. He's banned?

Yeah, Bill Klapp annoyed the mods one time too many I think a while back. Not like he was the only annoying one on there!!

Wine Berserkers...
50% egos, attitude and pedantic arguments
25% US wine discussion (which is fine, but tedious for me because we can't get any of the good US stuff here)
25% interesting, intelligent conversations on wine by knowledgeable and nice people.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:10 am**

JamieBahrain wrote:I wish Beserkers broken up into regions. I missed that discussion. I find it hard work droning through boring posts there to get to the good-guff on Piedmont.

What happened to the old guy that posted on Piedmont, often a little controversially? I loved his posts. He's banned?

That would be Bill Klapp. Very argumentative, and as he's retired and an ex lawyer, he has both the time and argumentative skills to fight with the best of them. Plenty miss him, but not me, because he intimidated a lot of people and brought a relentless conflict to the forum*. Despite the forthright / fiercely held opinions, there was plenty of interest as well. Someone like John Morris is much more my cup of tea in terms of attitude.

FWIW Bill was not and is not banned. Periodically he would be suspended from posting for overstepping the mark and on the last two occasions he decided to take a break from posting. The first break lasted a few months IIRC, but he's been away for longer this time.

Anders Westholm appears to be the new bête noire of the forum, a world class pedant and shares Bill's penchant for long arguments. There are others, including someone who seemed to hold Antonio Galloni up as the sole authority on Piemonte - and hence used to provoke Bill into long drawn out sarcastic responses.

Which I suppose goes to show what a good vibe there is on this forum, and how sometimes more posts doesn't mean a better experience.

Regards
Ian
* oh, and he fought relentlessly to promote the idea that Barolo pluralised to Baroli and Barbaresco to Barbareschi. Italians do not pluralise place names, because there is only one of them. i.e. 'correct' Italian would refer to Tre Barolo, or more naturally Tre bottiglie di Barolo etc. It's fair to acknowledge that languages do change over time, and even a few Italians break the rule these days, but he was arguing for the equivalent of 'isn't it' being wrong and 'innit' being correct.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:47 am**

JamieBahrain wrote:2006 Antonio Vallana e Figlio Gattinara- I just had a truck load of Italians delivered. It's been a long journey for them and they need a few months to settle but hunting that next nebbiolo hit, impatiently I cracked one of these, from the beautiful Vercelli.

I as very pleased initially, the wine showed great complexity aromatically though a little thing and gritty which I put down the a few months at sea. But wow! After a few hours in the decanter the wine builds even muscle across the palate, delivering superb nebbiolo in a very modest price bracket.

92pts+

Well, surprisingly and interestingly, this wine is still available here in Australia to me, can still be purchased, the 2006, plus a couple of other vintages.

Looks like a must buy then!

.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:53 am**

Ian S wrote:Anders Westholm appears to be the new bête noire of the forum, a world class pedant and shares Bill's penchant for long arguments.

Amusing fellow, at least he is passionate.

I almost got riled up when he questioned my ability to taste the difference between oak influence and "nebbiolo oak-like flavours" in a wine, but then realised where I was, welcome to the berzerkers forum, where wine is a combat sport :lol:

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:37 am**

winetastic wrote: welcome to the berzerkers forum, where wine is a combat sport

indeed it can be at times. I swear it is getting better, but sometimes it's difficult to see past a small number of sociopaths who one hopes don't behave that way in public.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:43 am**

Hi Gavin
Yes I'd certainly have some confidence - a good vintage and Jamie backing that up in respect of the specific wine. Often warmer vintages are the way to go up there, and it's one region in Europe where I've had really good success with 2003s (normally I'd cross the road to avoid them from other regions!). Thus a vintage like 2009 might be worth a punt on.
regards
Ian
p.s. do you want some help with the quote function? :mrgreen:

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:22 am**

On the ol' oak debate, my recent Italian deliveries included a six pack of Silvio Grasso Bricco Lucianni 2004. Now, whenever I see 04, I back-fill and this was well priced as well as having visited their winery years ago and Nonna treated us like family, trying to give us wine for free.

Silvio Grasso have six Cru's from about La Morra are no doubt "modernist", with small, new French Oak barrel aging- a couple have more temperate oaking.

They have another Cru, Turne, made the old fashioned way, 10hl Slavonian Oak, long and traditional maceration. I always put these guys firmly in the "modernist camp" but I'm obviously not keeping up.

I'll cellar four for the long term, drink one next month and swap two with other nebbiolo nuts.

Posted: **Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:57 am**

Looks like Nonna Grasso succeeded: 4 + 1 + 2 = 7 :lol:

Posted: **Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:45 am**

JamieBahrain wrote:2006 Antonio Vallana e Figlio Gattinara- I just had a truck load of Italians delivered. It's been a long journey for them and they need a few months to settle but hunting that next nebbiolo hit, impatiently I cracked one of these, from the beautiful Vercelli.

I as very pleased initially, the wine showed great complexity aromatically though a little thing and gritty which I put down the a few months at sea. But wow! After a few hours in the decanter the wine builds even muscle across the palate, delivering superb nebbiolo in a very modest price bracket.

92pts+

Jamie, you may like Paride Iaretti Gattinara. I think it's available in Hong Kong (I can get it here in Singapore). But gattinara in general - Beautiful wines... very unappreciated and punch well above their weight on price.

Posted: **Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:57 pm**

2006 Benevelli Barolo
Time to try one to see how its going. Light to medium brick red. Earthy, dusty red fruits (raspberries, red liquorice) and leather on the nose. Soft astringency from oak slightly dominates fruit (of which there is plenty at this stage of its development). No hurry, just at the start of its drinking window.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:58 am**

Did not take any notes, however really enjoyed a bottle of Bruno Rocca 'Fralu' Langhe Nebbiolo 2013 on Fri night - has all the complexity and poise of a Barbaresco, with approachable tannins. Pretty much the ideal drink now Nebbiolo experience and is the second best Langhe Nebbiolo I have enjoyed, nipping on the heels of the 2010 Vietti Perbacco.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:42 am**

Alessandro e Gian Natale Fantino Barolo Bussia "Cascina Dardi" 2005- Another bargain from Monforte. Lifted red fruits, darker licorice, menthol, crushed flowers and herbs and a pungent earthy salinity. Expansive across the length and breadth of the palate, medium weighed with dancey tar and rose fruit flavors- a traditional back palate tannin grip dominates the flavor persistence.

Very happy with this wine.

92pts

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:47 am**

1998 Giuseppe E Figlio Mascarello Barolo Monprivato ( magnum )- I feel a good preparation for this wine is a small nip now, slow ox for 24 hours, double decant after a few hours in a decanter.

Already showing a classic Monprivato a vintage car, engine oil-like tar note with ethereal lighter red fruits and sublime elegance. Will report further !

I presented a 1990 Monprivato to a mate last week who has never really drunk foreign wine and it was wonderful to see a good friend enjoy the most innocent of epiphanies!

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:59 am**

Silvio Grasso Barolo Bricco Luciani 2004- Not one for the traditionalists but I was quite happy with drinking this incredibly young Barolo. Needing a decade more, very intense wine aromatically, balsamic notes with darker, less expressive violet like fruit and cedar oak in evidence. Solid oak base on the palate that draws a complimentary barolo chinato/china wood like extract, sweetly nuanced, crafted and long, the wood tannin needs some time to mesh with some pretty intensive fruit of the vintage.

93pts+

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:38 am**

Thanks Dragzworthy but alas, not available in HKG. I'll check UK foir the Paride .

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:16 pm**

2011 Guido Porro Barolo Giannetto
Serralunga. Light brick red. Strawberry-red cherry fruit on the nose, quite youthful and a touch edgy still like young Burgundy, together with chalk and new leather. Medium weight palate like Burgundy, red fruits and a tannic finish as would be expected of a young wine, but not aggressive. Weight of a Barbaresco - elegant.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:17 pm**

1990 Gaja Barolo Sperss
Mid red. Lovely fullness and complexity - deep black raspberry fruit and cocoa on the nose. Probably not Serralunga though - perhaps French oak clouds the issue. Oak noticeable on the palate but now well integrated with the deep fruit. Excellent to drink.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:54 pm**

Chris H wrote:1990 Gaja Barolo Sperss
Mid red. Lovely fullness and complexity - deep black raspberry fruit and cocoa on the nose. Probably not Serralunga though - perhaps French oak clouds the issue. Oak noticeable on the palate but now well integrated with the deep fruit. Excellent to drink.

Geez I have had some oaky Gaja wines
Clouding decent fruit..

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:45 pm**

They are all oaky, like Bordeaux. Reminds me of Bordeaux in the ageing department too. If you have a big fruit year like 1990 then the oak is more covered, otherwise they need extended cellaring for integration to occur. Had a 2001 Sori Tiden and the oak is noticeable to the extent it needs another few years.

No doubt there is quality fruit there in the Gaja wines, so hopefully the daughters new broom will extend further than removing Barbera but also to more Botte, less French Barrique. And then drop the prices by a lot........

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:18 pm**

Chris H wrote:No doubt there is quality fruit there in the Gaja wines, so hopefully the daughters new broom will extend further than removing Barbera but also to more Botte, less French Barrique. And then drop the prices by a lot........

The latter is unlikely, however I think they would be wise to subtly reposition themselves more towards the middle ground, otherwise in a decade they might find themselves much less in demand and with so much in the secondary market (these are very much investment wines), they may be faced with having to cut prices sharply if the speculators get worried about losing money on new purchases.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:56 pm**

The Monprivato unpeeled nicely overnight and after a double-decant bringing beautiful red fruits to the fore over previously dominant tar notes with those classic vintage engine oil nuances. Darker licorice like notes emerged too, giving the wine multi-dimensions in a very long, medium weighted, ethereal and Burgundian like format.

Divine producer! I have more of the 98 magnums in the cellar and I'll leave for 10+ and I think the vintage will sit proudly with the outstanding 96,97 & 99 Monprivatos.

95pts+

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:03 pm**

1990 Fontanafredda Barolo Riserva I picked up a few (relatively) older Barolo to crack into over Christmas and NY. Always conscious of conditions of this older stuff but the cork here was in good nick and the wine was in good shape. Had a 3+ hour decant - it was solid but nothing spectacular. Good typicity, red fruited and floral. Tannins are still present on the finish but don't have any real bite.

While I do like older Barolo, I still like to have a some bite to the tannins on the finish and thought this would have some. No prior experience of this producer, so I'm not sure if this down to the producer or is typical of the vintage, which was warmer than average. Could also be the bottle was not in as good shape as I had thought.

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:54 pm**

Damn. Lost a longer reply.

Hi Mivvy
In short, Fontanafredda used to be a leading negociant / grape buyer when the growers grew the grapes and sold them to big boys. Since the 1950s they've slowly lost many of the best plots, as those vineyard owners started making wine themselves. Marchesi di Barolo had the same issue, but I believe both were also 'fat, dumb and happy' for decades, relying on their history / established name to keep selling the same old wines without noticing others were lifting their game.

There are suggestions that Fontanafredda have woken up and are trying to revamp themselves. The impression I get, is that Oscar Farinetti (who is a very astute businessman) is using a similar approach to some of the big Aussie players. Make the reputation on some smaller volume wines, getting lots of positive press, whilst shifting large volumes of more commercial offerings (and he definitely leverages his Eataly business to support this).

For me their base Barolo competes well against Langhe Nebbiolo / Nebbiolo d'Alba... when reduced on a regular basis by supermarkets to the £12-14 level. When it's £16-20, the value is more borderline and I'll always find something more interesting to buy, but at ~ £13 I will buy it. It is made in a relatively soft style and probably ideal at a decade or so from vintage if you want a little structure still.

Marcarini may well be a more appealing producer for you. Pricier ~ double the price, but very much in the traditional style and will probably always retain some tannins until it is OTH.

regards
Ian

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