The Auswine Forum

in the end some of these deeply historical lists are really wine history lists not wines to try before you die?? sorta like the babylon gardens being on the places tro visit before you die list??

dunno, maybe im out of touch with how available some of these wines are?

Craig,

Probably only 2 on my list that are not seen any more - the Maurice O'Shea and the 1959 Lindy's. I know of several people who've bought and drunk pristine bottles of the 1962 60A, 63 Peppermint Pattie, 55 Michael and the 1965 Lindy's Bin 3110 over the last year or so.

I've been incredibly lucky in trying quite a few of the wine's I've mentioned on my list and would dearly love to try them again. As this is a wish list, I don't think it matters if they're available or not but I can (sort of) see where you're coming from.

BTW, most of the Pennies gear is still readily available .... apart from what you've got to spend to secure them these days ... e.g.

Last Monday the following wines were sold at Langtons Penfolds Wine Auction (excluding the 15% buyers premium) -

1953 Grange - (2 half bottles) - $3300-3400

1962 Bin 60A - $3500 (2 bottles)

1962 Grange - $900-1350 (several bottles)

1963 Grange - $850

1967 Bin 7 - $500-600 (4 bottles)

DaveB wrote:Nice list D'lo.....I reckon mine would be pretty close to that....maybe dump the Wynns and throw in a Woodley's Treasure Chest though.

Come to think about it - you're 100% right but I'll opt for the '55 Michael instead!

List amended.

Luke W wrote:I started thinking about the wines to drink before you die and then just realised I'd already drunk a fair few. The ones I have most memories about include:

1955 Grange (unbelievably fresh and exciting in 1983)
1986 Mt Mary cabernets (gorgeous and elegant)
1990 Wynns Riddoch magnum (stunningly balanced)
1976 Penfolds 707 (the highlight of a Penfolds night that included a 10 year vertical of Granges)
1994 Cape Mentelle cabernet
1994 Leeuwin Chardonnay
2000 La Testa Shiraz (massive and multi faceted)
1996 Katnook cabernet (one of the perfect Coonawarras)
Some 100 year old liqueur muscat the Mick Morris bought up to Bartlett's Barn in the early 80's that blew everyone away
1976 Grange (at a dinner with max schubert - what a wonderful old guy)
1979 Hill of Grace bought for $4 from the MiHi tavern in Ipswich in 1982 (got a 10% discount cause I bought the lot - 4 cases)
1975 Leo Buring DWT ?? Riesling

There's a dozen that were fabulous and I'd stack up against almost anything nowadays...

The dozen in my cellar that I'm looking forward to include 1996 and 2001 Granges, 1998 and 2002 707's, 1996/8 389's, about 20 vintages of Wendouree, some beautiful old Steingartens, an occasional bottle of Dom although in a blind tasting in the early 80's the group preferred Chateau Remy!

That 1975 Leo Buring is close to one of the finest Australian Riesling's I've had the pleasure of trying. If there was a bottle out there with no ullage, a sound cork and a lot of luck, it might just be worth going out on a limb and grabbing one! FWIW, there were quite a few Show Reserve's (Eden and Clare) from that year and the wine I'm referring to was the Bin DWE17 from Eden. If memory serves me well, John Vickery made a beautiful Watervale Spatlese from this vintage as well. The '72 and '73 Show Reserves from both districts weren't too shabby either!

David,

wasn't it you that brought some very old rielsings and maybe semillons to one of our very first offlines? Could have been some 68's or 72's.

Regardless, those wines impressed me so much that I've gone on to buy a considerable amount of riesling in the hope of reliving that experience in years to come. The old leo burings and lindemans are on another planet when they are good.

Kris

I think you're right - some of the old Lindemans were wonderful wines and cutting edge in terms of blends too - I remember drinking a 1979 pinot hermitage (Bin 3109 or something) at the Yamba hotel in the early 80's while sitting on the deck thinking that life could get no better. I also remember getting dozens of the 1966 bin 3300's I think for next to nothing and watching them get better for about 20 years and the early St George's and Pyrus's were fabulous too. I drank a 1986 Pyrus the other day and it was one of the best wines I've drunk this year.

bacchaebabe wrote:David,

wasn't it you that brought some very old rielsings and maybe semillons to one of our very first offlines? Could have been some 68's or 72's.

Regardless, those wines impressed me so much that I've gone on to buy a considerable amount of riesling in the hope of reliving that experience in years to come. The old leo burings and lindemans are on another planet when they are good.

AFAICR, was not I, Kris.

Not much Riesling is made today in the style of the classics of Vickery and Co. of yesteryear. From my discussions with some "old timers" , I've been told the Buring's wines of the 60's and 70's started life as absolute battery acid and needed a minimum of 10-15 years to start hitting their straps, the best vintages then holding for 10-15 thereafter. So, although the appeal of today's later-picked (higher baume/alcohol -> lower acidity -> more upfront fruit -> very drinkable -> easier to sell to the masses) examples might cellar well for 4-5+ years, most are wallaby-ted before their 10th birthday. From the 1998 vintage, I found 2 examples that were tight, acidic and lacking initial appeal at release - Alkoomi and Heggies and put a case of each down in my cellar in the hope they might go the distance. I still have a few of each left today and both are at the end of their drinking windows and both were drinking better a few years ago. The '97, '98, '99 and '00 Leo Buring Maturation releases are all fully mature and/or fading - again, about 10 years and they're running out of gas, although I do hold some hope my Leonay's from 2002 will get to 15 before they fall over!

So unless you've got some pristine bottles of Buring's 90 Eden Valley Leonay or the '91 Leonay from Eden or Clare (alas, drunk all mine) I'm not sure whether we're indulging in somewhat of a futile exercise here. Obviously, monitoring is the keyword here, Kris, but I just haven't found much at all that can compare to what was accomplished with wines like the 1984 Seppelt Eden Valley, 1971/2 Watervale's from Lindy's and all that marvellous stuff from Buring's.

I still live in hope, though!

dlo wrote:

DaveB wrote:Nice list D'lo.....I reckon mine would be pretty close to that....maybe dump the Wynns and throw in a Woodley's Treasure Chest though.

Come to think about it - you're 100% right but I'll opt for the '55 Michael instead!

List amended.

One reason I actually didn't include the '55 Michael was because I've heard most bottles (even well cellared ones) are past it.

The majority of wines on my list are not only landmark wines, but for the majority there are immediate natural successors when their time has past them by. What I've selected are in the realms of possibility (and unlike some International variants you mightn't have to sell your house a couple of times over to do it). It may hurt, but it also may be very, very worth the experience.

Cheers,
Ian

dlo wrote:Penfolds Bin 7 Cabernet Shiraz (Coonawarra/Kalimna) 1967

David

Had a fantastic night about 4 years ago drinking this stuff. We were staying at a friends farm in Golburn and went to a great country restaurant run by a French guy who did a fixed winter meal. I believe it was the only restaurant in the area with a hat. Anyhow a bottleshop in one of the local towns had gone out of business and the restaurant had bought all the stock down in the cellar including a case of this stuff. Since the levels varied wildly from bottle to bottle and some were ok and some not, the owner just put a $10 price tag on all of them. Well we ended up having a fantastic time drinking close to 6 between us, always making sure we grabbed a bottle with levels way up the neck.

Destiny Vineyards magna praemia (you better believe at $275pb i wouldnt pay for a bottle but curious as this is a classic cookie cutter template based cult wine. id pay $10 for a splash though ). All ive heard is its almost as good as stonyridge for twice the price

well got to try this in the weekend. good wine for sure and much in the style i really enjoy but the price???!!!!

Craig(NZ) wrote:

Destiny Vineyards magna praemia (you better believe at $275pb i wouldnt pay for a bottle but curious as this is a classic cookie cutter template based cult wine. id pay $10 for a splash though ). All ive heard is its almost as good as stonyridge for twice the price

well got to try this in the weekend. good wine for sure and much in the style i really enjoy but the price???!!!!

Yep - when for that you can get an 05 Ch. Leoville Barton and still have $75 in your pocket, I figure that's got to be dubious pricing...

Yep - when for that you can get an 05 Ch. Leoville Barton and still have $75 in your pocket, I figure that's got to be dubious pricing...

yeah damn it i bought a couple ep, when does that arrive?? WD is so slow!

05' Puriri POPE?!... just get rid of one of the white wines.

If you are thinking of buying this id advise you snaffle up a bottle from the remaining currently on retail shelves. 05 Pope is now $225 ex cellar door vs $120 retail, the 05 reserve is now $120 ex cellar door vs $65 retail. The 05's are no longer being supplied to the trade by the winery but a few retailers still have stocks. Once the retail stuff is gone it goes from a very expensive to an extremely expensive exercise.

I'll do Aussie ... top of the head ... all post 1980 - for me - as a cutoff.

Penfolds Block 42 2004
Penfolds Bin 60A 2004
Moss Wood CabSav 1995
Penfolds Grange 1986
Wynns JR 1982
Howard Pask CS 1994
Penfolds Grange 1996
Henschke HOG 1990
Penfolds Bin 90A 1990
Balnaves Tally 2004

Would like a St. Henri in there (96, 04) but doubt I'd swap for one of the above. Can't imagine a white I'd want to drink above the aforementioned wines.

Jay

I am sure some of you guys would have tried all the wines mentioned, but for out of curiosity, those who hasn't tried all those nominated wines are purely on the basis of what they read and heard of?

ive tried all the ones ive recommended many times.

anything else is story telling

Craig, am I eligible to list the wine I have in my collection even though I haven't tried all of them?

Craig, am I eligible to list the wine I have in my collection even though I haven't tried all of them?

Well I guess you can look at it both ways??

Wines you recommend we try before we die should be wines you have tried. As I say anything else is just story telling

Wines you would like to try before you die obviously can be wines you havent yet tried

Bick wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:250 reads of this thread and only one contribution?? we need more opinionated people and fewer lemmings!!!

Yes, I'm often struck by the miniscule read:posts ratio too.

I'll pitch in with my two cents. I'm splitting my kiwi list in 2, with 6 that I would like to try before I die (I've not had them) and 6 that I think would best show someone new to kiwi wine how good it can be (selected from wines I have had, each of a different variety).

Wines I would like to try before I die (unlikely to, but hey)

1965 McWilliams Cabernet Sauvignon (you gotta be curious)
1987 Stonyridge Larose
1996 Dry River Craighall Riesling Botrytis Bunch Selection
2003 Martinborough Vineyards Marie Zelie Pinot Noir
2005 Puriri Hills The Pope
1998 Esk Valley The Terraces

Wines you should try before you die (any top vintage)

Te Mata Elston Chardonnay
St Clair Wairau Reserve Sauvignon Blanc
Ata Rangi Pinot Noir
Te Mata Coleraine
Felton Road Riesling
Stonecroft Syrah

That's a difficult exercise; I didn't overlap any from each list, so its makes up one list of 12. Whether to go with Elston or Mate's chard was a toughy - I went with Elston as I think its prob more popular. I left off a few varieties as well. If I get to pick 13, I'd maybe add Dry River Pinot Gris. Syrah was tough too - I could've gone with Te Mata Bullnose, or others, but I have a soft-spot for Stonecroft and have enjoyed it very much. I'm really not in a position to suggest an aussie list, but would be very interested in the views of others.

The 78 McWilliams Cab Sav was probably the standout red made in NZ during the 70s and hence deserves a place in list of great kiwi reds

HEre's a short list.

Wines you should try before you die (perhaps a number of them now past their best, so maybe they are "wines you should have tried before you die").

1990 Grange (I know, a bit obvious, I last tasted it in about 1998. I think it should be tasted, because it tasted to me like the wine someone would create in a test-tube if they could).

1983 Lindemans Burgundy (Though you would have to go back in time and taste it 10 years ago. I think it should be tasted as the antithesis of the 1990 Grange - smells of bird lime, tastes magnificent).

1997 Maglieri Shark Block shiraz (I think that is right; huge, inky Maclaren Vale Shiraz).

1993 Moonambel Cabernet (drinking extremely well now, elegant and long, lovely fine-grained tannins leading to excellent mouth-feel and grip; and currently available - the 2004, just as good).

Any good vintage of Ata Rangi pinot, drunk young.

A 20 year old bottle of Petaluma Riesling; lovely yellowed colour, fantastic candied taste.

A 20 year old bottle of LOvedale Semillon; compare it to the Petaluma and understand why this variety was once called "hunter valley riesling".