The Auswine Forum

Just saw your post saying another trip in a couple of years.

This time go Bris, Syd, Melb - drive to Adelaide.

Next time spend 5 days in Tas and use this time to research some of the other outlying areas for your next trip.

Guys, I appreciate both pro and cons regarding Tasmania, I like the idea, I LOVE nature, the MOST beautiful creations I ever seen and this includes man made creations, I don't wanna pass on it.

10 hours train? Without the internet? Naaa....we'll fly.

Mike, staying in the middle of the road? What about turns and other drivers? I know nobody is packed in Australia like we are here in USA, but I still don't wanna get lynched! I hope we manage, it can't be rocket science to drive on the wrong side of the road, I did it in my younger days after few too many


Seems like we'd need the car in 2 places only:
Adelaida and Tasmania, that sounds doable.

re NZ:
I don't have ant friends at NZ and limited to what touring companies here provide. The itinerary I posted sounds good, we'll see. 11 days in NZ, 2-3 weeks in Australia, should be enough for HIGHLIGHTS, I hope...

rooview wrote:This anti-Tasmania stuff I find fascinating.

If you haven't been to Cradle Mountain then please do not comment. Cradle Mountain National Park is one of the most pristine and intact environments on earth. The fact that it happens to be in Tasmania is quite incidental. Do the research and make the decision yourself.

Also, if your planning to visit NZ please make sure you know what to expect. Forests of American sequoia (instead of NZ kauri) and imported Australian possums is not everyones idea of 'wilderness'.

This is not anti-Tasmania, at least not from my perspective. I've been there. It must have been December 1986, if my memory is functioning at all well. We were supposed to do the Western Arthurs in South West Tasmania, and started out with a warm up of a few days hike in the Lake St Clair National Park. We only ended up doing a fraction of the Western Arthurs as we were snowed out in late December! Hobart became a crowded town as rivers like the Franklin rose (we were told) something like 17 feet. Had to settle for a few days on Maria Island and a few more driving around Tassie itself. A highlight of the trip was a Pipers Brook Chardonnay.

The problem is that Serge only has something around 3 weeks for his trip. He can’t do it all. If he’s doing New Zealand he’ll get scenery, and he has to go to Brisbane so he might as well visit a few of the major cities and their “cultural” activities and the surrounding wine regions, and leave Tassie for another time.

Personally I’m hoping that the conference I attend in Oz each year is headed for Hobart in 2007 so I can spend at least 2 weeks in Tassie.

Mike

Serge wrote:Mike, staying in the middle of the road? What about turns and other drivers? I know nobody is packed in Australia like we are here in USA, but I still don't wanna get lynched! I hope we manage, it can't be rocket science to drive on the wrong side of the road, I did it in my younger days after few too many
.

Serge,

You don't stay in the middle of the road. You keep the middle of the road on the driver's side of the car. Think about it. You sit in the left hand seat in the USA and the middle of the road is on the left hand side of the car. In Australia you sit in the right hand seat and the middle of the road is.....? That's right, its on the right - the side where the driver is. So when you turn you simply make sure that the middle of the road (not the curb) is on the driver's side of the car. If you think about it, you will see how simple it is.

Mike

Mike, you are a genious! It IS easy rule to remember!
OK, thanks to Auswine Board, my fears of driving on the left side are now totally gone
(Gavin, do I owe you anything for using your place for a therapy!?)

Also, Mike, we have 3 weeks for Australia alone, so when we get home, we'll do more research on links roo provided. Seems like it's shaping as a GREAT trip, thanks to all who chimed in!

Now question to Yanks and Oz's who been here often:
which airlines take AMEX points for upgrades? We have a few options of flying frpm LAX to NZ to OZ and back to LAX.

My posts aren't anti-Tasmania.

Serge said: So far we are inclined to go Brisbaine, Adelaida, Melbourne, Sydney, Tasmania.

All this in 2 weeks. He wouldn't do any of them justice and would be lucky to see much more than the airports and a few hours in the city.

Given that itinerary I would be looking to drop something. The obvious choice to me is Tasmania because a) so far Cradle Mountain is the only place of interest he's mentioned b) to fly, drive to Cradle Mountain and have time to do anything worthwhile it's a minimum 3 days - that's a lot out of 2 weeks c) Tassie is the most out of the way on the list - you may argue Adelaide but if Cradle Mountain is the focus of the trip that's a fair way from the airport and pretty much anything else so anything less than 3 days and you won't be spending much time doing anything except for arriving, driving, checking in and driving back.

It just seems crazy to me to take time to take 2 extra flights and drive to CM out of his 2 week itinerary.He'd virtually spend 1.5 days extra just travelling so he can spend about 30 hours at CM. I reckon in 2 weeks he could find better value spending that 2.5 days in NSW, Vic or SA.

If I were Serge I wouldn't come to Tassie unless he comes for a minimum 4-5 days. Save it for the next trip and do it properly. If he's that keen on what's on offer at Cradle Mountain then fine, go for it but then accept that you won't be able to do Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide as well on anything more than a whistlestop tour.

Just read the 3 weeks in Aus post.

Maybe changes things?

Brisbane - Sydney - Melbourne - Tas - Melbourne - Great Ocean Road to Adelaide.

If you are coming to Tas don't spend anything less than 3 nights, preferably 5. Anything less is a waste of time and could be better spent in the other locations. You would waste too much time travelling for the time you would get to spend here.

March is a great time of year in Tas, the best weather we have all year. Summer can be hit or miss, Winter is cold and Spring is windy. Most years Autumn is perfect. The sunsets in Hobart itslef are pretty spectacular in Autumn.

Obviously Cradle Mountain is one place you are keen to go. I'd also consider Freycinet National Park as well. Has the added bonus of one of Tassie's best wineries nearby.

http://www.freycinetcolesbay.com/select.htm

Spend a night or 2 at CM, one at Freycinet and one in Hobart. Maybe fly into Launceston and out of Hobart if possible.

Ratcatcher,
the link you posted only re-enforced our desire to see Tasmania!

Here is how we plan prelimenary:
Brissbane: - 4 nights
Adelaide - (2-3 nights)
Melbourne - 4 nights
Sydney - 4 nights)
Tasmania - 4 nights

all together is less than 3 weeks.

If I had to drop something - it would be Adelaide. We've been around the wineries all over the world and the vineyard is a vineyard is a vineyard. What's in the bottle is the ONLY thing what matters at the end of the day, and bottle from the shop is not any worse than a bottle from the winery.

Sorry, Ratcatcher, but missing a chance to see the island the most Australians hasn't seen? - No way!!!!!!

I wasn't trying to put you off it Serge, just wondering whether it was wise to include it given your time constraints of 2 weeks.

now that it's 3 weeks and 4 nights in Tas I say go for it.

Seriously would recommend flying into Launceston. 2 nights at Cradle Mountain, 1 night at Frecyinet and 1 night in Hobart.

Just one thing to remember, it looks small on a map next to the mainland but it's as big as England (that's England - not the UK) and the roads are not as good.

You might want to check this out. It seems about 3.5 hours C Mountain to Freycinet, 1.5 hours Freycinet to Hobart. Launceston to C Mountain about 1.5 hours. Hobart to CM is about 4. You can fly into Burnie and Devonport but I'm not sure how you arrange that.

http://www.cradlechalet.com.au/travel_times.htm

But I'd still be thinking about driving to Adelaide from Melbourne on the Great Ocean Rd too.

Try this link

http://www.greatoceanrd.org.au/

ps: While in Melbourne you must see a game of Aussie Rules at the MCG (Melbourne Cricket Ground). If you want to experience Aussie culture (sic) this is the ultimate. There should be games on in March.

Serge, looking at your latest itinerary, I have to say a city is a city is a city...and an airline flight is and airline flight is and airline flight. Why come all this way to city hop and see more of the inside of planes than anything else? Many of our unique and interesting holiday destinations in Australia are not man-made, are not in a city, and are not part of the eastern seaboard.

Sure, go to Sydney OR Brisbane OR Melbourne OR Adelaide, but I am an enthusiastic Australian and I wouldn't even want to see all 4 of them in a couple of weeks.

Serge wrote:So far we are inclined to go Brisbaine, Adelaida, Melbourne, Sydney, Tasmania and save some more for the follow up in a year or two.

Hi Serge

It is your holiday, but my suspicion is that you may be trying to fit in a little too much? You said you have around three weeks after 10 March to fit all this in AND catch up with your friend in Brisbane (known to we locals as Brisvegas). I agree with that as it stands you look like spending a lot of time packing, getting to airports, waiting at airports, flying, getting to hotels. You could save a bit of time by flying into Brisbane and out of Sydney Adelaide or Melbourne.

It isn't really clear from what you have written what exactly it is you are looking to do. Is it nature based stuff? Is it winery stuff? Is it city/museum/history stuff? Is it cuisine/dining out stuff?

You seem most enthusiastic about the nature stuff, and there is a bit of that around Brisbane. Sub-tropical rainforest (Lamington National Park). The world's largest sand island with amazing forests, wildlife etc. (Fraser Island National Park). Not far is the famous Australia Zoo (former home of Steve Irwin). Not to mention incredible beaches at the Gold and Sunshine Coasts, so spend around a week here AND

Spend a week in Tassie (there are direct flights from Brisbane) - you'll love it. March is a great time to go AND

If it is winery stuff then as per posts - choose Adelaide AND/OR

If it is city/museum/history stuff - or cuisine/restaurants/cafes choose Sydney OR Melbourne.

Just my two cents. Let me know if I can help out with the Brisbane end in any way.

Michael

PS The whole don't tell people you are American thing is a media beat up. Most Aussies you meet will judge you by what you say and do, not by where you come from. Most Aussies know that Americans aren't all Bush clones.

I am not going to rehash other peoples ideas, these would be my additional suggestions:

Darwin and Kakadu would be high on my iternary, personally Kakadu is a must see.

Perth / Fremantle and a trip around the SW corner of WA is also a great experience plus easy to navigate your way around. Whilst there you could also head north of Perth to Cervantes and / or Monkey Mia Beach.

Ayres Rock is a great cultural experience. The ‘Sounds of Slience’ is a magnificent experience dining under the stars.

Happy travels.

Wine Girl wrote:Serge, looking at your latest itinerary, I have to say a city is a city is a city...and an airline flight is and airline flight is and airline flight. Why come all this way to city hop and see more of the inside of planes than anything else? Many of our unique and interesting holiday destinations in Australia are not man-made, are not in a city, and are not part of the eastern seaboard.

Sure, go to Sydney OR Brisbane OR Melbourne OR Adelaide, but I am an enthusiastic Australian and I wouldn't even want to see all 4 of them in a couple of weeks.

WG,
you win. I am not coming to Australia, so you can put this thread to rest and jump onto something worthy of you.

Ratcatcher,
thanks for the ideas, we'll check details when we get home. As for cricket.....In 28 years in USA I never been to baseball game, football game or soccer game. This is one thing I'll have to pass.

Michael McNally wrote:Hi Serge

It is your holiday, but my suspicion is that you may be trying to fit in a little too much? You said you have around three weeks after 10 March to fit all this in AND catch up with your friend in Brisbane (known to we locals as Brisvegas). I agree with that as it stands you look like spending a lot of time packing, getting to airports, waiting at airports, flying, getting to hotels. You could save a bit of time by flying into Brisbane and out of Sydney Adelaide or Melbourne.

We are flying into Brisbane and out of either Melbourn or Sydney.
My wife is a pro traveler, she packs 2 bags in and out in 5 mins flat.
She has "da system"!

It isn't really clear from what you have written what exactly it is you are looking to do. Is it nature based stuff? Is it winery stuff? Is it city/museum/history stuff? Is it cuisine/dining out stuff?

All of the above, with wineries being the lowest on the totem pole.

You seem most enthusiastic about the nature stuff, and there is a bit of that around Brisbane. Sub-tropical rainforest (Lamington National Park). The world's largest sand island with amazing forests, wildlife etc. (Fraser Island National Park). Not far is the famous Australia Zoo (former home of Steve Irwin). Not to mention incredible beaches at the Gold and Sunshine Coasts, so spend around a week here AND

Spend a week in Tassie (there are direct flights from Brisbane) - you'll love it. March is a great time to go AND

If it is winery stuff then as per posts - choose Adelaide AND/OR

If it is city/museum/history stuff - or cuisine/restaurants/cafes choose Sydney OR Melbourne.

yeah, but how does one chose Melbourn OR Sydney without ever being there? To make the right choice one needs sufficient information I don't have at the moment.
Yes, we try to cover lots of grounds, which is the same thing Australians do when they come to Europe, covering 5-10 countries in 30 days and there is a reason for it-
long flights! Australia is a VERY long journey for us.

Just my two cents. Let me know if I can help out with the Brisbane end in any way.

Michael, Brisvegas is one place I don't make any plans for whatsoever. I rely on my friends there and their hospitality. I happen to know the most of the "players" there, we used to do business together.

PS The whole don't tell people you are American thing is a media beat up. Most Aussies you meet will judge you by what you say and do, not by where you come from. Most Aussies know that Americans aren't all Bush clones.

I survived in Turkey, Israel, Malaysia,
(but I have to admit, I never drove there )
I am not worried about. Media will always be media, but as general population goes, aussies and yanks have more in common than they are apart.

mattECN,
thanks for your suggestions. I am afraid that those places will be left for second trip. I am already feel that we trying to bite more than we can chew.

Lose the attitude, Serge. I was merely trying to point out that the itinerary you suggested would let you see a dumpload of our cities (and they get a bit repetitive after a while) and the inside of our airports and planes.

Just promise me you will try to think about the wonderful, unique and beautiful places to visit in Australia, apart from the eastern cities. Please?

Now, off to find those things that are more worthy of me...

Serge wrote:mattECN,
thanks for your suggestions. I am afraid that those places will be left for second trip. I am already feel that we trying to bite more than we can chew.

Speaking of biting off more than you can chew, a trip to the Kimberley coast should definitely be on your itinerary.

The local wildlife apparently loves Americans

Wine Girl wrote:Lose the attitude, Serge. I was merely trying to point out that the itinerary you suggested would let you see a dumpload of our cities (and they get a bit repetitive after a while) and the inside of our airports and planes.

Just promise me you will try to think about the wonderful, unique and beautiful places to visit in Australia, apart from the eastern cities. Please?

Now, off to find those things that are more worthy of me...

yes, ma'am, I will do EVERYTHING you want me to do.

Will they let us in thru the customs with our own handcuffs and floggers?


Relax, WG, I am thinking, I am thinking.

Do you approve this Tasmanian tour?
http://www.affordabletours.com/search/it/?t=PTASA
together with
http://www.affordabletours.com/search/it/?t=IPEB

...or should I just send you my CC # so you could book us a tour you believe we should take?

Davo wrote:

Serge wrote:mattECN,
thanks for your suggestions. I am afraid that those places will be left for second trip. I am already feel that we trying to bite more than we can chew.

Speaking of biting off more than you can chew, a trip to the Kimberley coast should definitely be on your itinerary.

The local wildlife apparently loves Americans

I thought the local wild life enjoyed OZ prime minister even more...what was his name?

Judging by the huge response I am beginning to wonder if this is a wine forum or a travel advisory network?

Serge, to answer your question, I have been to Adelaide twice. The first time was by train, on the India Pacific from Sydney to Perth, and the second was on a driving holiday from Sydney. I would travel to Adelaide by either if I could but since you don't have time I recommmend flying.

Don't be afraid of driving. I am from Canada where we drive on the right side of the road and I had no problems. I have driven from Adelaide to Melbourne and it was a beautifull drive. The fact that Langhorne Creek and the Coonawarra were on the way made the drive even more pleasant.

As for the "American" thing, i think it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. You will be treated just fine. Its just that some Australians, like people from all over the world, don't like US foreign policy. In my travels I even met Americans who said they would never return to the US as long as Bush was president.

One thing you should know about this "allies" thing. No offence, but Australians are quite insecure and are dreadfully afraid that China/Japan/Indonesia will invade Australia and that they need an ally to come to their rescue. They used to rely on Britain but were disappointed when Britain at one point refused to return Australian troops during the second world war. Ever since then Australia has hitched their foreign policy to US policy. That is why, if asked, Australia will send troops to almost any US war.

By the way, I agree with the posts that say don't try to see too much in three weeks. Pick either Sydney or Melbourne. Sydney is easier for the tourist to discover while Melbourne's delights are less obvious and requires time. If you go to the Hunter Valley, very much a tourist place, the three wineries I would recommend would be Brokenwood, Tyrrell's and Mount Pleasant. And as a wine buff I would also recommend visiting Adelaide and the wine regions around the city, particularly the Barossa Valley. By the way, South Australia was not a convict colony, all its immigrants were free settlers.

Cheers................Mahmoud.

Mahmoud,
more and more I am inclined to take FIRST trip to Australia with organized tour companies:
http://www.affordabletours.com/search/it/?t=PTASA
together with
http://www.affordabletours.com/search/it/?t=IPEB
( I do that 95% of the time, come "organized", see the highlights and re-visit on my own the places I liked or haven't seen)

Adelaide will have to wait for the second trip and because this IS Wine board and not Travel Advisory board,
I'll stop asking any more questions before Gavin throws his personal invitation to visit his shop.


Thank you so much, everybody, you were ENOURMOUS help and I can't think of any better group of people to ask travel advice to Australia.

winegirl,

your suggestions would make sense if he had 3 months, but would you go on a 2 week holiday to Europe for the first time and not go to London and Paris?

Would you go the West Coast USA and never having been there before and skip LA or San Francisco or Vegas?

He has to go to Brisbane to see friends, anyone from overseas would surely want to see both Melbourne and Sydney. I couldn't imagine leaving one of them out. Sydney and Melbourne are a must surely for a first time visitor to AUS. Unless he has a real urge to see Adelaide then he could leave that one out in line with your thinking.

He's already taking an off the beaten track trip to Tassie.

On a 3 week trip trying to squeeze in another side trip to a regional area would just be too much.

You wouldn't want to see all of them in one go because you've already seen them. Serge hasn't.

The sort of places you are talking about are places he can go next time, they are the sort of places that you need to spend 10-14 days in.

So if he goes to Bris, Sydney, Melb and Tassie and then had a spare 3-4 days somewhere in between what are your recommendations that he cold get a worthwhile experience from in 3-4 days?

Serge,
are you bringing that wine out for me?????????????

regards
Sean

Ratcatcher,

I DID go to Europe for the first time as an adult and not visit Paris or London. I spent a couple of weeks visiting tiny hilltop villages in and around Tuscany (including Montalcino for the Brunello!)...with a rental car which we drove uneventfully on the wrong side of the road AND in the presence of crazy Italian drivers, Serge. Yep, I went to Italy and did not look at the Sistine Chapel.

I think you miss my point completely, Ratcatcher. I am the one suggesting he take in a couple of places in detail, not city hop Bris-Syd-Melb-Adel to see a load of concrete and shopping malls you could see in most modern cities of the world.

I give up. I suspect some of you are learning impaired.

Wine Girl wrote:..........................

I think you miss my point completely, Ratcatcher. I am the one suggesting he take in a couple of places in detail, not city hop Bris-Syd-Melb-Adel to see a load of concrete and shopping malls you could see in most modern cities of the world.

I give up. I suspect some of you are learning impaired.

Oh, I don't know about this. I've lived in one of the cities mentioned two different times in my life and visited the others at least twice. I would not confuse any of them as "a load of concrete and shopping malls". Each is very unique and well worth a lengthy visit. My wife (American) who has visited all four (Sydney and Adelaide more than once) has very different opinions on each, and yes she (and I) do get out to places other than Oz and the US of A.

Mike

There's more to a city than concrete and shopping malls, they have a feel about them or a spirit which I personally love to get to know. The benefit is that you are able to do this in a short period of time and have lots of different experiences compared to a regional area, especially in a country the size of Australia.

The key to your comment is that you went to Europe for the first time as an adult suggesting you have been several times. It's completely different if you know you can do other things on other trips or you've already seen them but if you are only gonna get maybe one chance then you want to see as much as you can within reason.

We went to Europe in 93 and did the whirlwind tour of England, France, Germany, Italy because we thought it would be the only time we would go and wanted to see all the things we'd always wanted to see.

Luckily we got to go again a couple of years later and were able to spend some longer periods in some regional areas but it ws much easier to choose where those places were because we had developed a feel for the regions from our earlier trip. My only regret is that I wasn't really as interested in wine back then as I am now.

I think we are pretty much arguing the same case. But in effect Serge is only actually visiting 2 cities, Sydney and Melbourne, he is visiting friends in Brisbane, not Brisbane itself. (assuming he skips Adelaide unless he has a specific reason for going there)

BTW - did you go to Rome, Florence, or Venice?

marsalla wrote:Serge,
are you bringing that wine out for me?????????????

regards
Sean

hhahahahaahahahah!
You got me, NOW I don't have a choice and NOTHING beats personal delivery!

Serge from Las Vegas

Wine Girl wrote:
I give up. I suspect some of you are learning impaired.

WG, and I'll be frank, as you are a big girl and can take it. Those "learning impared" HELPED me with their advices, their thoughts and TOOK TIME in their busy lives to help the stranger. THIS is what I associate with TRUE AUSSIE SPIRIT.

Aparently yours and mine views of your countrymen are world apart. I hope yours will change one day.

Don't sweat that stuff Serge, a good insult is part of the Australian culture. It's all tongue in cheek.

You'll have to get used to that. If the people you meet like you, they'll start hurling all sorts of abuse at you. It's a form of affection.

It's also a bit of a test to see that you don't take yourself too seriously.

Have we finalised your itinerary now?

Bris 4 nights
Syd 4 nights
Melb 4 nights
Tas 4 nights.

I reckon that sounds alright for a first time traveller to AUS.

Based on earlier posts you have about 3-4 nights to spare so we might be able to fit in a little something else. Either that or you could stay longer around Sydney or Melbourne and visit an outlying area in NSW or Victoria.

Maybe Rutherglen, Ballarat etc etc.

What do you think winegirl? Given that he seems pretty set on the above 4 destinations what's something he could do in his remaining 3-4 days?