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Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:49 pm
by mychurch
I think Balmoral went downhill when the packaging changed from a wooden cases to cardboard. I remember selling a half case (in Cardboard) at Christie’s in 03, which I presume was a 98 or a 96, and I think it sold for €180, so not cheap. No idea anymore what I paid for it.
I still buy some expensive wine each year, almost all of which needs time in the cellar. It’s nice to have and to let them mature, but I get more pleasure now from simpler wines that need much less time in the cellar and which cost a lot less. I actually miss the fact that nobody here posts reviews of cheapies. These are the wines that get people into wine and there is a lot of skill put into making and sourcing them. Agree with Jamie though that finding good examples here in Auz is pretty impossible.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:04 am
by Scotty vino
mychurch wrote:I think Balmoral went downhill when the packaging changed from a wooden cases to cardboard. I remember selling a half case (in Cardboard) at Christie’s in 03, which I presume was a 98 or a 96, and I think it sold for €180, so not cheap. No idea anymore what I paid for it.
I still buy some expensive wine each year, almost all of which needs time in the cellar. It’s nice to have and to let them mature, but I get more pleasure now from simpler wines that need much less time in the cellar and which cost a lot less. I actually miss the fact that nobody here posts reviews of cheapies. These are the wines that get people into wine and there is a lot of skill put into making and sourcing them. Agree with Jamie though that finding good examples here in Auz is pretty impossible.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:48 am
by GraemeG
JamieBahrain wrote:
Now I find most sub-$20 Aussie wines not worth my liver cells I get more pleasure from an AFD. After living in Hong Kong where under $20 gets you great quaffing, I’ve yet to find a comfort zone in difficult Australia.
I must say I'm with Jamie in that I'd find it hard to drink rewardingly at $20/pb retail on an ongoing basis. There are a few worthy wines at that price, but it's a narrow selection.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:18 am
by kenzo
Quaffers for me back then were the likes of Wynns Shiraz, Tollana TR16 etc, Leasingham Bin wines, Saltram Mamre Brook, Stonyfell Metala. All of which also provided decent mid- (or even somewhat long) term cellaring. Mt Langi Billi Billi and Tatachilla Keystone were also some wines of which I stashed a six pack away for 10 plus years, providing great drinking pleasure for the price. So probably in the $8-15 range at the time? The likes of Wynns BL and Bin 389 etc were also often discounted to sub-$20.
Some of the above wines are unbelievably still in that price range, but there is a lot more access available to smaller and newer producers now.
To find wines of similar quality and pricepoint these days I find myself going to Spain or Cotes du Rhone more often than not - Chilean wines that used to fill the gap (such as Concha y Toro Puente Alto) have risen in price.
Buying from over here I find the only sub-$30 Australian wines I have bought have been Penfolds Bin 28 and various Rieslings (Wynns BL likely to make an appearance on this list soon) - the rest seem to be in the $40-110 range, which will make it hard to crack a bottle for the off the cuff occasion. Fortunately I still have all of the sub-$20 quaffers that I bought back then.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:28 am
by JamieBahrain
I think the period relevant for the quaffer remarks about 2005 when 2002 Balmoral dumped.
If we go back to the early 90’s $15 may be OK. Still preferred a bit higher . Some good examples there. Wynn’s Hermitage still drinks well but for mine, it fell away dramatically in the 90’s and I didn’t enjoy it. Chalambar was excellent but fell away too.
I had a good friend who cellared cheapies in the early 90’s to reasonably effect as quaffing wines. Koonunga Hill & Waterwheel his favourites. Not bad. You couldn’t do it with Koonunga of late.
My quaffing abroad was Italian and $15 to $20 wines are firmly in the $40 range here. Hard to be too scientific what determines a quaffer in Australia with complexities
in pricing/taxation and marketing. Aussie made Italian varietals are still above $30 here in any form of quality.
I’ll pop the kettle on now mid-week evenings and have a chamomile tea instead of a beautiful quaffer
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:40 am
by phillisc
This thread is simply strange...and sorry to Allan for simply taking the time to post a note...with it being hijacked ever since....yes guilty as charged.
I have posted dozens of times on wines that are sub $10/15/20 that I like drinking when released and as 15-20+ year olds. I had two bottles of 2013 Wynns shiraz on the weekend for example, bright plush, with depth of flavour and everything in its place and for about $9.
No offence but the whole debate re cost/bargain/expensive is beyond me now, I don't have the time, money, energy or effort to consider it anymore...anyway think my wine purchasing has about 2-3 years left and then I'll just be a casual observer.
Cheers Craig
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:36 pm
by JamieBahrain
Well you will be sorely missed in these types of discussions telling us what a great wine 71 Grange was at $8.99 a bottle, or Hill of Grace and Mt Ed under $20. Or Balmoral a fraction of RRP
Trying to find pics of the bottles of Wynn’s Hermitage drunk this year. 70’s and 80’s with very low alcohol. Very different styles compared with today’s. Loved the elegance and red fruits.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:18 pm
by Con J
Nice painting Rob.
Below is a watercolour by my team leader painted for me because I’m into wine.
Cheers Con.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:48 pm
by JamieBahrain
The Head Wines Redhead Shiraz 2016 was a delightful wine last night. Perfect drinking window though I note many critics feel it better with more time
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:23 pm
by Mahmoud Ali
phillisc wrote:This thread is simply strange...and sorry to Allan for simply taking the time to post a note...with it being hijacked ever since....yes guilty as charged.
I have posted dozens of times on wines that are sub $10/15/20 that I like drinking when released and as 15-20+ year olds. I had two bottles of 2013 Wynns shiraz on the weekend for example, bright plush, with depth of flavour and everything in its place and for about $9.
No offence but the whole debate re cost/bargain/expensive is beyond me now, I don't have the time, money, energy or effort to consider it anymore...anyway think my wine purchasing has about 2-3 years left and then I'll just be a casual observer.
Agree with you on the "strange" business. When wine is reduced to an abstract price level with little regard to time of purchase, quality of the wine, and the ability to develop with age, then we are truly into the arena of money and labels, and why the average person thinks of us as wine snobs. Take a moment to consider what the average person would think on hearing some the things posted on this thread.
As I alluded to earlier, it is one thing to say that these days it is getting more and more difficult to find good quality wines under $20, but it is altogether different to make it a blanket caveat, and to apply it retroactively!
Craig, please continue posting about your "sub $10/15/20" wines that come out good as 15-20+ year olds. Maybe there should be a TN thread that reads: "Not For Snobs and Label Chasers".
Cheers .................... Mahmoud.
PS: Since you mentioned the 2013 Wynn's Shiraz, let me add a couple of my own. From Australia a 1975 Lindeman's Auburn Burgundy (C$10) that was stellar in 2001, from Italy a 1980 Sella & Mosca Cannonau di Alghero ($5+) from Sardinia when it was almost 20 years old. Of course a proper wine collector wouldn't have entertained cellaring either of these wines, having instead quaffed them at a house party.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:56 am
by JamieBahrain
One Australian wine auction house has a service that may appeal to any readers of the above, if remotely interested in seeing how cheap Aussie wines age. They bundle all these unsaleables together in case lots and you bid a bottle price which covers the case. Starts at about $4 and doesn’t go for much more.
Maybe you will strike gold if lucky. And if so, perhaps you can see stylistic and quality changes across some common and mass produced labels. Good luck-you will probably need it.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:53 pm
by mychurch
7637B05C-6548-42B9-9EB7-1F53B1D82B88.jpeg
Just opened this, which was part of one of those mixed lots Jamie mentioned. 74 Taylor’s Hermitage. Fill was just above low shoulder. No worries. The lovely hit of stewed strawberry fruit when I took the first sip made me giggle. Just a lovely old lady with plenty of mid palate fruit. Probably a bit behind a 77 Bailys that Con brought to the last board get together, but given the condition, it’s a much bigger superprise. Yum. Think it cost $11.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:46 pm
by Mahmoud Ali
Well done mychurch.
With auctions one is always taking a chance, as opposed to cellaring yourself. Ignore the naysayers, there is a difference between cheap wines (often referred to as common and mass produced) and inexpensive wines. In 1974, when the Taylor's was made, most Australians were not drinking wine. It would not have been a "mass produced" or "commercial" wine. Judge what you taste not what it cost.
Cheers .......................... Mahmoud.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:05 pm
by mychurch
When you get to wines of this age Mahmoud “there are no great wines, just great bottles” applies.
These mixed lots are sold are blind, so you are taking a chance. Oldies, from minor names like this, really need food to let them shown their best - same happened here. Only drank half a bottle - my lockdown limit - so there is plenty left for tonight. Pretty certain it will be dead though.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:26 pm
by ticklenow1
I can remember when first getting into wine in the very early 00's, buying '96 and '98 Balmoral for about $20 at Twins Towns Services Club when they were clearing all their stock. At the time I thought they were incredible wines and were probably part of my wine drinking education. I certainly wouldn't buy them now.
I find it sad that once proud labels have been basically bastardised by corporate behemoths. With many of the big wineries stretching the quality so thin by releasing so many different labels, the wines will surely suffer.
Cheers
Ian
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:06 am
by JamieBahrain
For a least a year or so, Twin Towns had to have been the best wine shop in Australia.
One of those Balmoral vintages was a bit flat for me. I’d loaded up like yourself. I enjoyed the earlier vintages as well but can’t recall which ( not 89 ) and nor were they as keenly priced.
Completely different wine later on. I guess they don’t have the same vineyards and the winemaking has tried to adjust with the times and fashions.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:28 pm
by Mahmoud Ali
JamieBahrain wrote:Completely different wine later on. I guess they don’t have the same vineyards and the wine making has tried to adjust with the times and fashions.
Gentlemen, I couldn't agree more.
Mahmoud.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:49 pm
by Mahmoud Ali
ticklenow1 wrote:I find it sad that once proud labels have been basically bastardised by corporate behemoths. With many of the big wineries stretching the quality so thin by releasing so many different labels, the wines will surely suffer.
JamieBahrain wrote:Completely different wine later on. I guess they don’t have the same vineyards and the wine making has tried to adjust with the times and fashions.
Gentlemen, I couldn't agree more.
Mahmoud.
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:12 am
by Ian S
Re: TN: Rosemount Balmoral Syrah 2012
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:08 pm
by Chuck
The big wine companies do a loaves and fishes job resulting in a lesser product. Just look at TWE and the proliferation of new premium labels. I feel certain the grapes that go into say Penfolds Bin 389 and Wynns Black Label are not of the same quality as 30 years ago. The proof is in the pudding and i haven't bought these wines for decades or if I have they were resold at auction. Secondary market prices are often a fraction of original selling price. I bought some Lindeman's 2012 St George a few years ago for what seemed a bargain price of $28. Original RRP was around $70. Tried one and was underwhelmed so sold balance except for a 6 pack for $30. That's all it was worth, if that.
