The Auswine Forum

Ian S wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: PS: One time I did have trouble checking in an inflated rugby ball that I was lucky to collect at the Dubai Rugby 7s. Ettihad Airlines insisted that I had to deflate the ball before getting on the plane. Finding a way to deflate it was quite the story.

Luckily Tom Brady was on hand to assist

For those who may be interested; Black Estate in North Canterbury offers free shipping to Australia for 12bottles or more.

The pinots are very nice and pure. Both the Home Vineyard and the Damsteep come in at between 12.0 to 12.5% alcohol but are fragrant and properly ripe (to my taste anyway). I would place the wines high up in the second tier of NZ pinots.

The Riesling is another nice wine.

They have an excellent restaurant which is definitely worth a visit if you are in the Sth Island

Brodie

mychurch wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:What’s the risk on the jet for old wine ? Or just worried of handling issues and temperature variations ?

Jamie. I’d be worried about the handling and the pressure.


Either way, if the pressure can pop those bags, then I’d be worried by how old, saturated corks would react.

Hi mychurch,

Very reasonable concerns. I was interested if you had any experiences as there's more anecdotal evidence than science ( though changing ). Living in Hong Kong amongst high-end collectors many refuse to use air freight.

Personally, I move about 400 bottles a year on aeroplanes in checked in luggage. Generally 24 bottles per trip with family and friends assisting as well . I also use air freight very cautiously for reasons to follow.

A jet airliner will be pressurised to between 5000 and a smidgen over 8000 feet on a long flight from European wine regions ( with a fuel stop between Euro & Oz ).

Initially, a fuel laden aircraft, will be pressurised to the lower figure, as fuel burns off and the aircraft lightens, it will climb to higher altitudes and the higher figures result. Temperature variation is possibly significant depending on the aircraft, depending on where the luggage stored and depending upon equipment serviceability. Now it is not uncommon for cargo heating to be unserviceable. This of course is very serious pre-flight and crew will be ensure there are no animals or temperature critical dangerous goods in cargo- wine in luggage is obviously not considered. This is where you may see temperatures below zero and the effects on arriving luggage ( external frosting ) especially if in a small bulk cargo hold at the rear which won't ( aircraft dependant ) see re-cicrculated warm cabin air.

Now I'm sure there's an audience here whose practical chemistry and application of Boyle's gas laws better than mine. The following from conversations with collectors with doctorates in chemistry, vague online studies and other more academic crew. So no google supported nitpicking thanks.

At 8000 feet cabin altitude when you are in cruise air will be expelled from the wine. When the aircraft starts to depressurise air will be drawn back in. Temperature is a factor now due oxygen solubility and here's where the failed heating or naturally cooler cargo spaces of aircraft come to play. Oxygen solubility is double to triple - depending on how cold it is- and oxygen will now dissolve into the wine.

Wine air freighted too, in a recent study, shows less free sulphur dioxide and spectral analysis shows more browning due oxygen absorption in flight. How does this affect ageing through possible accelerated oxidation? My guess is it depends on the extremities experienced and number of pressurisations.

So we have a little bit of science and a lot of anecdotal argument on pressurisation factors. I'd be concerned with a very old bottle like you.

Now the biggie. Temperature variation! Insulate, insulate, insulate! This is from extensive experience and using temperature recordings inside suitcases. I'm OK on a flight from HKG using styrofoam boxes which don't have the layered protection of suitcases.

A flight from Europe with an Arab or Asian airline will fuel-stop somewhere very, very hot. Tarmac temperatures are massively hotter than ambient air temperature. So if you change aircraft you have more variation. Even if you don't we tend to shut down our APU supported a/c and ever unreliable ground air is connected. All this temperature variation will accentuate the science above.

Cargo aircraft are often unreliable mechanically and without schedule regimentations. Often departing very late you must, for protection, have wine included as a perishable freight and most retailers DO NOT pay for this service. I use my own airline which does ( the ladies in Milan love Barbera so my freight treated like a million dollar racehorse ). I have refused wine from the UK that's been airfreighted. So as a general rule- NO.

Hope this helps a little.

Ian S wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: PS: One time I did have trouble checking in an inflated rugby ball that I was lucky to collect at the Dubai Rugby 7s. Ettihad Airlines insisted that I had to deflate the ball before getting on the plane. Finding a way to deflate it was quite the story.

Luckily Tom Brady was on hand to assist

I get this.

I only send or buy wine overseas in Spring or Autumn as you have the best chance of moderate temperatures the world over. Wanted to increase the tasting stock with my friend in Amsterdam though and sent some extra so I could we could zoom with a couple of other friends. As the picture of the Dappled bottle shows though, air transport does have its perils. Apparently there is no signs of leaking, but something has happened - maybe due to pressure or maybe due to high temps on the way. Luckily all these bottles will be drunk within a year, but I would recommend being careful with wines you transport this way and want to cellar

My personal experience..

I'm not sure I'd trust normal air freight packaging simply because you'll have times when the boxes are just sitting who knows where for who knows how long....

If I'm taking it myself...I've not have any issues except one possible one where I had a longer than normal stopover in Dubai where a no SO2 wine was probably subject to some heat and I was less happy with it than normal....While probably nowhere near as many bottles as Jaime, I've done this for at least several hundred bottles without a problem and have been really happy with the results...

Ian S wrote:

Mahmoud Ali wrote: PS: One time I did have trouble checking in an inflated rugby ball that I was lucky to collect at the Dubai Rugby 7s. Ettihad Airlines insisted that I had to deflate the ball before getting on the plane. Finding a way to deflate it was quite the story.

Luckily Tom Brady was on hand to assist

Clever, don't know how I missed that.

By the way, I should clarify that my experience with wines, young and old, is by checked in luggage, not air freight on cargo flights.

Mahmoud.

mychurch wrote: As the picture of the Dappled bottle shows though, air transport does have its perils. Apparently there is no signs of leaking, but something has happened - maybe due to pressure or maybe due to high temps on the way. Luckily all these bottles will be drunk within a year, but I would recommend being careful with wines you transport this way and want to cellar

Hard to be a detective here but my punt would be extreme temperature. I don't think air pressure differentials would have done this. However, combine the two factors of rapid heating and a pressurisation and this not unlikely.

I agree with that Jamie. I notice also that the wax on top of the Penley Cabarnet looks very round, as if the cork is protruding. The level seems base of neck - my bottles at home are higher. If it had leaked though there would have been red wine stains somewhere in the box.

My friend is sending a box back. This is half of it - there will be another 6 which will come from other friends for online tastings.
Looking forward to that 69 Italian. The 06 Terlan actually mine - Pinot blanc held on lees for 12 years or so.Told him to wait a bit until the heat has gone down.

Is anybody here waiting for deliveries from abroad at the moment. I have a case that apparently arrived at Melbourne customs on June 26, that is still waiting to be processed. I know they are busy, but should I be worried ?

mychurch wrote: Is anybody here waiting for deliveries from abroad at the moment. I have a case that apparently arrived at Melbourne customs on June 26, that is still waiting to be processed. I know they are busy, but should I be worried ?

Ooh Ive just ordered something from the UK, fingers crossed it doesnt dawdle in customs for weeks!

mychurch wrote:
Looking forward to that 69 Italian. The 06 Terlan actually mine - Pinot blanc held on lees for 12 years or so.Told him to wait a bit until the heat has gone down.

I await with interest the moment you open both of these. I doubt there are may 1969 Vernaccia wines from Sardegna around! Interesting for sure. I have a 2011 Vorberg riserva from Terlan, which is starting to come into my thinking to open some time. Intrigued by the late release wine.

Ian, the Terlan 06 will probably be too young. I actually tried to buy the 91, but stock control issues meant that it was sold out without the shop knowing. My friend has drunk it - apparently it’s very good, but obviously misses a bit of fruit. On the Terlan website they mention that they still have wine on lees going back to the 70’s

I don’t know where he found them, but he managed to pick up a large selection of olde Vernaccia wines. Been reading the reviews on Vivino and they sound great. Last time I was back in Rotterdam I had a bottle of 69 Colares Branco. It was a recent release and was interesting - very pungent. Hoping the Italian wine will be similar.

mychurch wrote:I agree with that Jamie. I notice also that the wax on top of the Penley Cabarnet looks very round, as if the cork is protruding. The level seems base of neck - my bottles at home are higher. If it had leaked though there would have been red wine stains somewhere in the box.

It could also be extreme cold and partial freezing. This is not unlikely in aircraft if the cargo heating u/s or not installed and a very long flight at high altitude.

Partial freezing and the formation of wine crystals in the bottle neck could see a significant increase in pressure. I'd almost put two bob on this being the case above.

mychurch wrote:. Last time I was back in Rotterdam I had a bottle of 69 Colares Branco. It was a recent release and was interesting - very pungent. Hoping the Italian wine will be similar.

Yes Colares red and white both weird shit that ages. Great for an interesting / thought provoking wine.

JamieBahrain wrote: A flight from Europe with an Arab or Asian airline will fuel-stop somewhere very, very hot. Tarmac temperatures are massively hotter than ambient air temperature. So if you change aircraft you have more variation. Even if you don't we tend to shut down our APU supported a/c and ever unreliable ground air is connected. All this temperature variation will accentuate the science above.

Indeed. Some years ago we recalled a bunch of product (pharma industry) when it transpired that a batch of product sat at Dubai airport for longer than 'desired' and the temp logger got to the mid-50s C for several hours.
And this was a drug that sells for Grand Cru prices as well!
Graeme

The only way to make it economical (legally) is to do it in bulk. If you ship 10+ 12-bottle cases at once, and you've bought the wine in bond (i.e. in the UK, pre-VAT & Duty), you can save a fair bit by shipping yourself via temp-controlled sea freight. Or, of course, carry it yourself if you can fly.

Any other route (to Australia) isn't worth the risk, or the extra cost. Wine feels expensive here, but on a case-by-case basis, there's no way to get it here any cheaper unless you're doing volume.

I’m happy air freighting a case every 6 months - the wine I buy is not expensive, but it’s stuff I like, it’s not available here and it is to be drunk rather than cellared. If I was after top quality Barolo or Burgundy then I’d probably do it another way.

So this is the latest set to come across. Sent 3 weeks ago from France, but unlike the wines that went to Amsterdam, no protruding corks and no sign of any leakage.

Have a bottle of the 90 Pinon as well and happy to bring them all to an offline post Covid to try.

mychurch wrote:

Vouvray.jpeg

So this is the latest set to come across. Sent 3 weeks ago from France, but unlike the wines that went to Amsterdam, no protruding corks and no sign of any leakage.

Have a bottle of the 90 Pinon as well and happy to bring them all to an offline post Covid to try.

They look great!

So the lastest batch arrived. These weren’t back in a box I had already sent to Europe. Survived quite well, but o don’t think it’s up up to another return trip.

There is some leakage on the capsule of the Ganevat, but otherwise they look great.

These wines are going to be drunk over Zoom tasting on a Sunday night and I am looking forward to them.

Another box to my friend in Europe and another minor leak. The port had a fill just into the neck when I sent it out, but obviously has leaked during transport. Pretty indestructible stuff, so it will be fine, but I have another couple of old ports with stoppers I was due to send and I won’t bother now - will stick to either screw caps or young wines.