The Auswine Forum

JamieBahrain wrote: Do you think its Australian wine that affects you or just alcohol? I'm genuinely interested.

Our household quaffers are Wolf Blass this month and half a bottle and you feel it. Usually we have barbera, lighter in alcohol and a bit of sulphur but thats it- zero impact on sleep nor a mild preservatives hang over.

I don't consume alcohol before regular examinations at work which are very intense. However, I do use a sleeping sedative.

Its just alcohol full stop, however I would agree that low alcohol / minimal intervention wines have a reduced negative effect on my performance the next day.

JamieBahrain wrote:Do you think its Australian wine that affects you or just alcohol? I'm genuinely interested.

I would like to understand this too. I find that Aussie wines intoxicate me much faster than Old World wines. Moreover, how I feel the next morning after drinking the night before is different as well. After drinking Aussie Shiraz or Cabernet or even Pinot I'll often still be feeling the effects the following morning. But with say Barolo or Burgundy, the next morning I'll feel like I never drank anything. I'm not sure why. Do we add something into wines here that they don't in Europe? I don't think it's related to alcohol level as I don't notice any negative effects after drinking 15% ABV Italian wines.

Very, very interesting comments here, about the perceived day after effects of Australian vs European wines. I cannot say that I have felt any difference between these wines but whenever I have noted a difference the day after (by that I mean ill effects) I have always thought that it was due to either drinking too much or finishing the evening with scotch.

Mahmoud.

Yeah same here Ozzie. I remember talking to Olek Bondonio (Barbaresco vineyard owner ) about this and he said the sulphur is so much greater in Aussie wines than Piedmont. He worked vintages in Australia. Italian wines have high natural acidity and tannins so don't need much other than sulphur.

Half a bottle of barbera is out of your system in four hours. Absolutely nothing affecting my sleep or next day performance.

What does affect me is:

- extensive small barrel influence ( migraine )

- high alcohol wines ( headaches and hydration )

- high intervention wines or different yeasts seem to be an issue. Histamines, tyramines, sulfites and I can't find my reference to another culprit I've forgotten the name of and present in modern style wines.

If I could just add what appears to be the issue with daily drinking ? It was a real bogeyman when living in Australia ( AFD's and dry months ) but widely accepted in other cultures- I mean this in a positive sense whereby drinking wine was coupled with nutritious food.

Australia seems to have a health crisis? Processed food and fitness ( in part because Australians seem to work very long hours ).

I have no issues with daily drinking if its part of a healthy diet. I recall researching the diets of long-living cultures and only one had total abstinence from alcohol. I'm pretty confident you are better off with half a bottle of wine ( 3 glasses ? ) and a home cooked meal versus a dry argument and eating out and especially anything fast food.

Tomorrow I'm working. Happy to stay home and have a healthy dinner and a few glasses of wine. Done by 7pm. Alcohol out of system by bedtime and I'll couple with intermittent fasting. I won't eat again until tomorrow afternoon when I've finished and I have access to nutritious foods. I've avoided processed foods, healthy lunch then exercise and I'll do the same tomorrow night with a very happy view to the dinner/wine experience.

There's a very dim view to daily drinking in medical circles but I wonder how others feel?

Ozzie W wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:Do you think its Australian wine that affects you or just alcohol? I'm genuinely interested.

I would like to understand this too. I find that Aussie wines intoxicate me much faster than Old World wines. Moreover, how I feel the next morning after drinking the night before is different as well. After drinking Aussie Shiraz or Cabernet or even Pinot I'll often still be feeling the effects the following morning. But with say Barolo or Burgundy, the next morning I'll feel like I never drank anything. I'm not sure why. Do we add something into wines here that they don't in Europe? I don't think it's related to alcohol level as I don't notice any negative effects after drinking 15% ABV Italian wines.

I would tend to agree with the effect of Aussie wines but to my mind it is linked to the ABV... many old world wines remain in the 12.5-14% range while the Aussies tend to start at 14% and go up.

The other night I was in Melbourne and shared a bottle of Greenock Creek Alices Block with a colleague (I probably drank the larger share) at 16.5% and certainly felt the difference. Nice enough wine but still very much in the syrupy style. Glad I don't have any of them in the cellar.

But I would add, I also feel sulphur plays a role ... I do feel wines with a lot of sulphur can affect me, not necessarily in the way of a hang over but just in the sense of impacting my sinuses at least.

I think the SO2 thing might be spot on..I could never understand why 12-13% wines, didn't seem to matter how many were drunk, didn't have the same impact as 14-15%.

But at 5 drinks of 15% you've consumed only slightly more alcohol than 6 drinks at 12% and more alcohol than 6 drinks at 13% but I don't think that matches up with people's own experiences...

Or it might be a combination of things..and to be fair we don't know exactly how much alcohol is in the wine..but it can't be so far off where the numbers just don't seem to make sense.

JamieBahrain wrote:If I could just add what appears to be the issue with daily drinking ?

There's a very dim view to daily drinking in medical circles but I wonder how others feel?

Not trying to change your mind, but........ In the medical community there is absolutely no doubt that alcohol is a carcinogen. For men and women, moderate alcohol consumption increases your risk of mouth cancer, throat cancer, esophageal cancer, stomach cancer & bowel cancer. For women the increased risk is breast cancer is linear ; your relative risk increases about 10% for each drink you average per day.

These are some of the known risks associated with moderate consumption and don't include all the other known health factors that occur with heavy / chronic alcohol consumption.

In Aust the guidelines are;

For healthy men and women, drinking no more than two standard drinks on any day reduces your risk of harm from alcohol-related disease or injury over a lifetime.
Drinking no more than four standard drinks on a single occasion reduces the risk of alcohol-related injury arising from that occasion.
And no more than:

In NZ the govt guidelines are;

no more than 2 standard drinks a day for women and no more than 10 standard drinks a week and
no more than 3 standard drinks a day for men and no more than 15 standard drinks a week
no more than 4 standard drinks for women on any single occasion
no more than 5 standard drinks for men on any single occasion.

These are public health guidelines that are designed to yield positive health benefits across an entire population. They are not personalized guideleines that fit everyone's unique combo of genetics/lifestyle/personality/diet etc etc. Some will have lower risk and some will have high risk

Personally I try and follow the NZ guidelines. But there are many times I exceed the guidelines. I like to believe (yeah right) that wine is somehow "better" than other forms of alcohol and therefore the guidelines don't really apply to wine drinkers!

Driving a car is also dangerous, but the government doesn't recommend that we avoid driving.

My view is that the risk of drinking wine needs to be offset against the enjoyment of drinking it. My risk of dying is 100% whether I drink wine or not.

I go in bursts. Usually if I want to taste, I need a comparison and I can easily have 2 to 4 bottles open at the same time, drunk over a week. Eventually the tasting big wears off and then I might not drink for a week.

One thing I notice is that total alcohol consumption is down. My normal limit now is 600ml and on a normal tasting night I drink between 350 and 500 ml. I’m also drinker lower alcohol whites now instead of big alcohol rich reds.

The big plus from the alcohol free nights is the quality of sleep - always feel better in the mornings.

For me, wine is the most natural and enjoyable thing to accompany a meal. I'm trying to be good atm, on 5:2 and a bit more exercise, so up to 5 nights a week for me. I could still cut down more I suspect.

brodie wrote: Not trying to change your mind, but........ In the medical community there is absolutely no doubt that alcohol is a carcinogen. For men and women, moderate alcohol consumption increases your risk of mouth cancer, throat cancer, esophageal cancer, stomach cancer & bowel cancer. For women the increased risk is breast cancer is linear ; your relative risk increases about 10% for each drink you average per day.

These are some of the known risks associated with moderate consumption and don't include all the other known health factors that occur with heavy / chronic alcohol consumption.

Hi Brodie,

Thanks. I'm open to discussion and it doesn't reflect my personal drinking patterns but that said, I wouldn't be concerned with daily consumption of alcohol coupled with high quality diet ( Mediterranean, Okinawan etc or a combination of ) with exercise and good community.

What bugs me is a generation of well educated folks who poison their kids with processed diets and the fast food lobby seems to silence the medical commentary.

I'd like to see studies of the risks of alcohol consumption within those long-living cultures and their diets and sense of community. There's too much statistical variation otherwise? Of course, the Okinawan folks are now the most prone to chronic disease of the Japanese evidently. Processed food.

JamieBahrain wrote:

brodie wrote: Not trying to change your mind, but........ In the medical community there is absolutely no doubt that alcohol is a carcinogen. For men and women, moderate alcohol consumption increases your risk of mouth cancer, throat cancer, esophageal cancer, stomach cancer & bowel cancer. For women the increased risk is breast cancer is linear ; your relative risk increases about 10% for each drink you average per day.

These are some of the known risks associated with moderate consumption and don't include all the other known health factors that occur with heavy / chronic alcohol consumption.

Hi Brodie,

Thanks. I'm open to discussion and it doesn't reflect my personal drinking patterns but that said, I wouldn't be concerned with daily consumption of alcohol coupled with high quality diet ( Mediterranean, Okinawan etc or a combination of ) with exercise and good community.

What bugs me is a generation of well educated folks who poison their kids with processed diets and the fast food lobby seems to silence the medical commentary.

I'd like to see studies of the risks of alcohol consumption within those long-living cultures and their diets and sense of community. There's too much statistical variation otherwise? Of course, the Okinawan folks are now the most prone to chronic disease of the Japanese evidently. Processed food.

Yup, completely agree with your approach.

My post was really to provide context to why doctors and public health officials seem so anti alcohol. The studies don't make very cheery reading but they lump all forms of alcohol together in these big studies. The medical studies that the conclusions are based on are carefully controlled for "confounding factors" so they can tease out stable statistical relationships and patterns that are not due to other factors like age/sex/ethnicity/diet/lifestyle etc.

By my own measures I drink "in moderation" not sure my GOP would agree.

Here's to a great glass of wine tonight.

Brodie

I drink Fri Sat Sun. Too much each night though and I am gaining weight. Wine is the biggest reason in my weight gain. In my view

Cactus wrote:I drink Fri Sat Sun. Too much each night though and I am gaining weight. Wine is the biggest reason in my weight gain. In my view

It would undoubtedly be easier for me to lose weight if I cut down my wine consumption

mjs wrote:

Cactus wrote:I drink Fri Sat Sun. Too much each night though and I am gaining weight. Wine is the biggest reason in my weight gain. In my view

It would undoubtedly be easier for me to lose weight if I cut down my wine consumption

Well done on a 1000 posts!!!
speaking of consumption, was rather sobering and do you tell a little white lie...I am having surgery in 3 weeks, yep like over 50 is just getting so much better
and the online hospital admission form asked about weekly consumption, i really didn't know so put in a range 5-10, i suspect there are some weeks where its much higher.
even more sobering was the the little 'trick' that came next...height about 179-180 cm and then weight 88 kgs, and the bloody thing did an automatic BMI...27 something, so i am fat...might make an effort to drop that last 8 k.

cheers
Craig

I have been generally disciplined sticking to 5 days a week. I figure my body needs a rest form alcohol for 2 days.