The Auswine Forum

Learn more about your preferences and expand your wine horizons away from Aust as fast as your budget allows. At your age you need to drink more widely and also try buying a few bottles at auction to see whether you actually like the taste of older wines. Auctions are a bit of a lottery as you have no idea of provenance and storage conditions. Otherwise try and find some friends with cellars to share older bottles with you.

Try and find a wine club near you. Try a few. They are not all the same. Beefsteak & Burgundy clubs are the most obvious, but not always the "cup of tea" to everybody.
Come to an Offline and sample the wares on offer. If you reach out to an offliner, they may be able to help you source a wine for the event and also point you in the direction of a few clubs that are not so well known.
Enjoy the journey

Wizz wrote:

felixp21 wrote:Tips..... from an old codger who has been buying for 40 years, or near enough.

1. Buy Burgundy NOW. Spend your entire wine budget on it, nothing else, and spend more if you can in any way afford it. Why? Because in 15 years time, you will have wine that is worth 10-15x what you paid for it. In 2030, Rousseau Chambertin will cost $50k a bottle. Laugh now, save this post and let's have a look in 2030.... it may well cost more. The average Village wine will set you back $600 by then.

2. Buy Burgundy NOW. As someone living in China, where the rich are fabulously wealthy, far more than in any other country on Earth, I can promise you that you will NOT be able to afford it in another decade. Probably won't matter, because Australian importers will only get miniscule allocations anyway. The Chinese have really developed a taste for it, and it won't be long before they are buying almost all of it.

3. After you have spent the next five years buying Burgundy, you can stop.... by then, you will feel the prices have become absurd (but believe me, they will keep going up)

4. After five years, buy smaller amounts of wines from diverse regions, don't restrict yourself to two or three regions. If you don't want to keep your Burgundy, you can sell it at a very handsome profit.

5. In ten years, start to open your Burgundy, drink them, and sigh, as you think "ahhh, those were the days we could afford to buy this stuff"

Hey Felix did you buy Bitcoin too?

Mr Wizz
Don’t panic
Bitcoin will be worth more in 20 years
Buy buy more
You will not regret

Ironic.... Bitcoin died in the ass when China wouldn't allow it's nationals to trade it. Simple fact.

I purchased 1996 Rousseau Chambertin in Australia upon release for $180/bottle. ( significantly less than the price of Grange back then)
I've lost the receipt for the 99 Chambertin also purchased, but I am pretty sure it was less than $300/bottle, again, less than Grange.
Twenty years later, the 2016 is being released in the UK at about $5600 a bottle all up. Goodness knows what it will cost in Australia.
If someone had told me that the same wine would release for $5600 a bottle in 20 years, back in 1998, I would have laughed and thought them completely mad.
The only thing that is really mad is the price of Burgundy, it's head-scratching.
If you don't like it, Jamie, you can sell it (as I said above), and you will make a handsome profit. But if you are new to wine and want to know what to collect, Burgundy is an absolute fail-safe. Get it now and worry about the other stuff later.

On the down side, when back in Oz, I stare at my remaining bottles of 96 and 99, of which there are a pretty decent number, and simply can't bring myself to either drink or sell them. Too expensive to drink, too precious to sell.
So, hopefully you too will have to consider that one day hehe

felixp21 wrote:I purchased 1996 Rousseau Chambertin in Australia upon release for $180/bottle. ( significantly less than the price of Grange back then)
I've lost the receipt for the 99 Chambertin also purchased, but I am pretty sure it was less than $300/bottle, again, less than Grange.
Twenty years later, the 2016 is being released in the UK at about $5600 a bottle all up. Goodness knows what it will cost in Australia.
If someone had told me that the same wine would release for $5600 a bottle in 20 years, back in 1998, I would have laughed and thought them completely mad.
The only thing that is really mad is the price of Burgundy, it's head-scratching.
If you don't like it, Jamie, you can sell it (as I said above), and you will make a handsome profit. But if you are new to wine and want to know what to collect, Burgundy is an absolute fail-safe. Get it now and worry about the other stuff later.

On the down side, when back in Oz, I stare at my remaining bottles of 96 and 99, of which there are a pretty decent number, and simply can't bring myself to either drink or sell them. Too expensive to drink, too precious to sell.
So, hopefully you too will have to consider that one day hehe

I purchased 1999 for $180 in Australia
Beautiful tremendous exciting wine
Had my last bottle this year with 3 other people and they were thrilled by it!

michel wrote:

felixp21 wrote:I purchased 1996 Rousseau Chambertin in Australia upon release for $180/bottle. ( significantly less than the price of Grange back then)
I've lost the receipt for the 99 Chambertin also purchased, but I am pretty sure it was less than $300/bottle, again, less than Grange.
Twenty years later, the 2016 is being released in the UK at about $5600 a bottle all up. Goodness knows what it will cost in Australia.
If someone had told me that the same wine would release for $5600 a bottle in 20 years, back in 1998, I would have laughed and thought them completely mad.
The only thing that is really mad is the price of Burgundy, it's head-scratching.
If you don't like it, Jamie, you can sell it (as I said above), and you will make a handsome profit. But if you are new to wine and want to know what to collect, Burgundy is an absolute fail-safe. Get it now and worry about the other stuff later.

On the down side, when back in Oz, I stare at my remaining bottles of 96 and 99, of which there are a pretty decent number, and simply can't bring myself to either drink or sell them. Too expensive to drink, too precious to sell.
So, hopefully you too will have to consider that one day hehe

I purchased 1999 for $180 in Australia
Beautiful tremendous exciting wine
Had my last bottle this year with 3 other people and they were thrilled by it!

There's place in Melbourne that's got two bottles of the 1999 Rousseau Chambertin for $5499 each.

Cheers Con.

Con J wrote:

michel wrote:

felixp21 wrote:I purchased 1996 Rousseau Chambertin in Australia upon release for $180/bottle. ( significantly less than the price of Grange back then)
I've lost the receipt for the 99 Chambertin also purchased, but I am pretty sure it was less than $300/bottle, again, less than Grange.
Twenty years later, the 2016 is being released in the UK at about $5600 a bottle all up. Goodness knows what it will cost in Australia.
If someone had told me that the same wine would release for $5600 a bottle in 20 years, back in 1998, I would have laughed and thought them completely mad.
The only thing that is really mad is the price of Burgundy, it's head-scratching.
If you don't like it, Jamie, you can sell it (as I said above), and you will make a handsome profit. But if you are new to wine and want to know what to collect, Burgundy is an absolute fail-safe. Get it now and worry about the other stuff later.

On the down side, when back in Oz, I stare at my remaining bottles of 96 and 99, of which there are a pretty decent number, and simply can't bring myself to either drink or sell them. Too expensive to drink, too precious to sell.
So, hopefully you too will have to consider that one day hehe

I purchased 1999 for $180 in Australia
Beautiful tremendous exciting wine
Had my last bottle this year with 3 other people and they were thrilled by it!

There's place in Melbourne that's got two bottles of the 1999 Rousseau Chambertin for $5499 each.

Cheers Con.

I can’t sell them
Once in a lifetime experience

A couple of observations as there is lots of good info above. First up you live in Brisbane so chances are whites make more sense than reds. In recent years I’ve changed the mix of my cellar from 80%reds 20% whites to more like 50/50, especially as we try to eat fish r nights a week and red meat say twice a month. People will jump in here and say you as you wish which is true but heavy tannic reds and delicate white flesh fish don’t really go together that well.

Buy tons of Riesling from good vintages!! Grosset Springvale, Sepplets Drumbourg, Frankland Estate are all excellent examples but so buy cases of Pikes. At just under $20 with 6-10 years in the bottle it’s totally addictive mid week but all Aussie rieslings require years for the acid to break down. Also try the German rieslings, they have a higher sugar level but the acid to balance the wines. If your budget is more limited wines like Willi Schaefer Kabinett which can be joined when first purchased.

Unlike other people here I tend to prefer half cases as a minimum. Good wines take time to develop (generally around 10years for what I like and collect) andwines often go into dorminant periods especially Cabernet Sauvignon and Riesling. 6 lets you see a wine’s potential even if it’s only the last bottle. I look at my cellar like the toaster at the Qantas lounge. I throw cases in, forget about them for a decade and then one day they re-emerge. I almost never buy at auction so at three bottles a week and a min preferred age of not less than 10 years, I run the cellar at around 1500 bottles.

rooman wrote:A couple of observations as there is lots of good info above. First up you live in Brisbane so chances are whites make more sense than reds. In recent years I’ve changed the mix of my cellar from 80%reds 20% whites to more like 50/50, especially as we try to eat fish r nights a week and red meat say twice a month. People will jump in here and say you as you wish which is true but heavy tannic reds and delicate white flesh fish don’t really go together that well.

Buy tons of Riesling from good vintages!! Grosset Springvale, Sepplets Drumbourg, Frankland Estate are all excellent examples but so buy cases of Pikes. At just under $20 with 6-10 years in the bottle it’s totally addictive mid week but all Aussie rieslings require years for the acid to break down. Also try the German rieslings, they have a higher sugar level but the acid to balance the wines. If your budget is more limited wines like Willi Schaefer Kabinett which can be joined when first purchased.

Unlike other people here I tend to prefer half cases as a minimum. Good wines take time to develop (generally around 10years for what I like and collect) andwines often go into dorminant periods especially Cabernet Sauvignon and Riesling. 6 lets you see a wine’s potential even if it’s only the last bottle. I look at my cellar like the toaster at the Qantas lounge. I throw cases in, forget about them for a decade and then one day they re-emerge. I almost never buy at auction so at three bottles a week and a min preferred age of not less than 10 years, I run the cellar at around 1500 bottles.

Do you catalogue your wine?
What’s your cellar temperature?

I just trying to work out how many nights are r nights first

Mark, we eat fish a lot too and Pinot goes very well with Salmon when cooked in an Asian style.

michel wrote:

rooman wrote:A couple of observations as there is lots of good info above. First up you live in Brisbane so chances are whites make more sense than reds. In recent years I’ve changed the mix of my cellar from 80%reds 20% whites to more like 50/50, especially as we try to eat fish r nights a week and red meat say twice a month. People will jump in here and say you as you wish which is true but heavy tannic reds and delicate white flesh fish don’t really go together that well.

Buy tons of Riesling from good vintages!! Grosset Springvale, Sepplets Drumbourg, Frankland Estate are all excellent examples but so buy cases of Pikes. At just under $20 with 6-10 years in the bottle it’s totally addictive mid week but all Aussie rieslings require years for the acid to break down. Also try the German rieslings, they have a higher sugar level but the acid to balance the wines. If your budget is more limited wines like Willi Schaefer Kabinett which can be joined when first purchased.

Unlike other people here I tend to prefer half cases as a minimum. Good wines take time to develop (generally around 10years for what I like and collect) and wines often go into dorminant periods especially Cabernet Sauvignon and Riesling. 6 lets you see a wine’s potential even if it’s only the last bottle. I look at my cellar like the toaster at the Qantas lounge. I throw cases in, forget about them for a decade and then one day they re-emerge. I almost never buy at auction so at three bottles a week and a min preferred age of not less than 10 years, I run the cellar at around 1500 bottles.

Do you catalogue your wine?
What’s your cellar temperature?

I use cellartracker and store wines in different parts of the walk in cellar according to variety and region. It is stored at Kennards at around 13/14 and has been for the past couple of decades. I do think the low temperature control at Kennards means it ages very slowly. I also have white and red wine fridges at the house set to different temperature.

80% of what I drink at home is at least 10 years old, unless it is really an early in the week wine. Even then i prefer aged riesling which is why i suggested the newbie starts by throwing cases of both cheap and expensive riesling into the cellar. From 2017, I put away 3 x 6 packs of the Pikes Traditionale. As we move to eat more white flesh, we are drinking less and less reds.

Reading all this it has come to me that I have forgotten one thing. One important thing...

Wine is only part of life. You have family, friends and other interests to balance your time and money

Don't become "one of those guys"

Thanks for all of the advice.

Balance
I certainly hear all of your comments regarding balance in the cellar. I am already aware the fact that my small collection is Shiraz heavy. I have been trying to balance it out with some more Cabernet Sauvignon and Bordeaux blends as well as Pinot Noir, Reislings and a few Chardonnay and Semillon that should age well. I also love some Italian and Spanish varieties and I am slowly exploring them.

That said I do still buy Shiraz .... more so because my wife loves it and I am yet to properly convert her to Pinot Noir. She likes white wine well enough but does not appreciate it like I do.

The comments about buying 2, 3 or 4 bottles is something I think I'll work towards as well.

When to drink
I also appreciate your comments about drinking wine rather than hoarding wine. I might bring my "drink dates" on some of my collection forward. That said, I want to given the new release reds and reislings at least 5 years before I drink them. So in the mean time I'll try to buy some more aged wines at auction to get my fix.

Budget
I appreciate the comments in relation to sticking to a budget. My wife and I tend to drink on average 3 nights per week with 4 alcohol-free nights per week. Sometimes this is reversed, but at the very most we drink 4 nights per week. The alcohol free nights are partially for health reasons as we head to the gym, pool or go for a run on those days but also help the budget.

Education
I'll have to come along to an offline some time soon. Are there any clubs in Brisbane that you could recommend?

tuxy85 wrote:

When to drink
I also appreciate your comments about drinking wine rather than hoarding wine. I might bring my "drink dates" on some of my collection forward. That said, I want to given the new release reds and reislings at least 5 years before I drink them. So in the mean time I'll try to buy some more aged wines at auction to get my fix.

One of the really tricky aspects of cellaring wine is that some wines and some varieties in particular go into dormant periods. Shiraz doesn't seem to suffer so much from this problem. The same with chardonnay which appears to build steadily over time but cab savs and rieslings are notorious for periods where the initial fruit has dropped off and the secondary development has yet to kick in. I have often worked through a case of cab sav only to find the last bottle or two out around 15 or more years is amazing. So yes wine is always meant to be shared but I would suggest selectively adjusting your drinking windows ie keep a few cab savs back for the long haul.

Mark

tuxy85 wrote:Education
I'll have to come along to an offline some time soon. Are there any clubs in Brisbane that you could recommend?

Hi Tuxy

Our Brisbane offlines are usually pretty non-intimidating! Quality is usually pretty good too.

I have also recently started attending the Wine Guild monthly meetings and there are some good wines to try with a bit of variety and some with a fair bit of age. On Friday the theme was Clare and Eden Valleys with a lot of Rieslings, but a good smattering of reds also.

Also went to an options club last week, which was interesting.

PM me for more details on any of the above. We should have an offline before the silly season hits anyway.

Cheers

Michael

Michael McNally wrote:
I have also recently started attending the Wine Guild monthly meetings and there are some good wines to try with a bit of variety and some with a fair bit of age. On Friday the theme was Clare and Eden Valleys with a lot of Rieslings, but a good smattering of reds also.

Cheers

Michael

Any feedback on the rieslings? Vintages, WOTN etc you want to share?

Mark

rooman wrote:

Michael McNally wrote:
I have also recently started attending the Wine Guild monthly meetings and there are some good wines to try with a bit of variety and some with a fair bit of age. On Friday the theme was Clare and Eden Valleys with a lot of Rieslings, but a good smattering of reds also.

Cheers

Michael

Any feedback on the rieslings? Vintages, WOTN etc you want to share?

Mark

Hi Mark

I wasn't taking notes, but some of the standouts amongst the older wines were the 2007 Pewsey Vale and 1999 Paulett's Polish Hill (although slightly 'corky' what was underneath was brilliant). Of the younger wines the 2017 Z wines and the 2017 Henschke Julius. Amongst the reds there was a pretty complex 1997 Grosset Gaia and a 200? Mountadam The Red. Of the younger reds I really enjoyed the 2013 Fat Boy Mataro by Mad Bastard.

Cheers

Michael

I don't have much more to offer given the advice already proffered. I have little experience with buying for investment purposes since I have always bought wine to cellar AND drink. Of course some of them have increased in value and others I cannot afford given today's prices. The one think that should be taken to heart is never to buy too much of one kind of wine and always try to get your hands of different wines from all over the world. These days it is not to difficult to find out if the wine is from a good producer or if it cellarworthy.

As for cellaring time, more often than not the wine will need more time than what a review thinks. This is especially true of cabernet as already mentioned.

Cheers ............. Mahmoud.

michel wrote:

Con J wrote:

michel wrote:
I purchased 1999 for $180 in Australia
Beautiful tremendous exciting wine
Had my last bottle this year with 3 other people and they were thrilled by it!

There's place in Melbourne that's got two bottles of the 1999 Rousseau Chambertin for $5499 each.

Cheers Con.

I can’t sell them
Once in a lifetime experience

My kinda wine pal
Unfortunately my wine journey started a bit late to the party

rooman wrote:

tuxy85 wrote:

When to drink
I also appreciate your comments about drinking wine rather than hoarding wine. I might bring my "drink dates" on some of my collection forward. That said, I want to given the new release reds and reislings at least 5 years before I drink them. So in the mean time I'll try to buy some more aged wines at auction to get my fix.

One of the really tricky aspects of cellaring wine is that some wines and some varieties in particular go into dormant periods. Shiraz doesn't seem to suffer so much from this problem. The same with chardonnay which appears to build steadily over time but cab savs and rieslings are notorious for periods where the initial fruit has dropped off and the secondary development has yet to kick in. I have often worked through a case of cab sav only to find the last bottle or two out around 15 or more years is amazing. So yes wine is always meant to be shared but I would suggest selectively adjusting your drinking windows ie keep a few cab savs back for the long haul.

Mark

I certainly intend on cellaring a few "prized" cab savs for the long term such as the Mt Mary Quintets, Cullen Diana Madelines and YY Dry Red #1s that I own. As for the reislings I have a few Grosset Polish Hills that I'll put away for the long term as well. The rest I'll bring out earlier

** I should note that I don't see any of my wine as an investment. I intend on consuming it all at some point and/or sharing it with friends.

tuxy85 wrote:

rooman wrote:

tuxy85 wrote:

When to drink
I also appreciate your comments about drinking wine rather than hoarding wine. I might bring my "drink dates" on some of my collection forward. That said, I want to given the new release reds and reislings at least 5 years before I drink them. So in the mean time I'll try to buy some more aged wines at auction to get my fix.

One of the really tricky aspects of cellaring wine is that some wines and some varieties in particular go into dormant periods. Shiraz doesn't seem to suffer so much from this problem. The same with chardonnay which appears to build steadily over time but cab savs and rieslings are notorious for periods where the initial fruit has dropped off and the secondary development has yet to kick in. I have often worked through a case of cab sav only to find the last bottle or two out around 15 or more years is amazing. So yes wine is always meant to be shared but I would suggest selectively adjusting your drinking windows ie keep a few cab savs back for the long haul.

Mark

I certainly intend on cellaring a few "prized" cab savs for the long term such as the Mt Mary Quintets, Cullen Diana Madelines and YY Dry Red #1s that I own. As for the reislings I have a few Grosset Polish Hills that I'll put away for the long term as well. The rest I'll bring out earlier

I love Grosset but I reckon I buy the Springvale 3:1 over the Polish. Having said that the 2017 PH is awesome and well worth tracking down.

And don’t forget the cheap Pikes is one of Australia’s absolute bargains.

Michael McNally wrote:

rooman wrote:

Michael McNally wrote:
I have also recently started attending the Wine Guild monthly meetings and there are some good wines to try with a bit of variety and some with a fair bit of age. On Friday the theme was Clare and Eden Valleys with a lot of Rieslings, but a good smattering of reds also.

Cheers

Michael

Any feedback on the rieslings? Vintages, WOTN etc you want to share?

Mark

Hi Mark

I wasn't taking notes, but some of the standouts amongst the older wines were the 2007 Pewsey Vale and 1999 Paulett's Polish Hill (although slightly 'corky' what was underneath was brilliant). Of the younger wines the 2017 Z wines and the 2017 Henschke Julius. Amongst the reds there was a pretty complex 1997 Grosset Gaia and a 200? Mountadam The Red. Of the younger reds I really enjoyed the 2013 Fat Boy Mataro by Mad Bastard.

Cheers

Michael

Thanks. The Paulett is another wine I wish I had collected along the way. Re the Pewsey was it the standard or Contours?

Mark

I'll probably give the least popular opinion..

Don't buy to cellar...You'll end up cellaring because your buying will outpace your drinking but I definitely would not be buying in multiples with the intent of cellaring.

If you have unlimited funds and space, sure, it is fun..it would be nice to have your pick of whatever back vintages you want and try them over time...but there is so much wine out there, you'll just not have that opportunity.

There might be a few select things you do want to cellar and that's fine...and yes, you might miss out on a few opportunities..but the actual cost of doing that far outweighs not...Buy back vintages if you must...drink whatever else you've unintentionally cellared...

This means buying 1-2 of things...at most...with maybe a few exceptions...

Always another vintage of the century..always another good producer..another good cuvee....

Polymer wrote:Don't buy to cellar...You'll end up cellaring because your buying will outpace your drinking but I definitely would not be buying in multiples with the intent of cellaring.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. You seem to suggest buying without any strategy or selection and that is counter intuitive. How else can one have a Bordeaux or Barolo to drink at a later date? Buying can range from single bottles of premium wines to multiples of two and three as well as cases, however there should be some rhyme or reason to what one buys to put away.

Mahmoud.

Hi Polymer
A solid point there about factoring in the true cost, and you could add to this that it's a guess where our interests will be in a decade or two.

For me, there is pleasure in the act of cellaring, of investing my time (and money) and to know that it's me that had control of the wine's 'upbringing'. The original aims of cellaring for me were to have a nice selection on hand, to suit mood or food, and to have wines that weren't painfully young. I think that still holds true for me.

Regards
Ian

Ian S wrote:Hi Polymer
A solid point there about factoring in the true cost, and you could add to this that it's a guess where our interests will be in a decade or two.

For me, there is pleasure in the act of cellaring, of investing my time (and money) and to know that it's me that had control of the wine's 'upbringing'. The original aims of cellaring for me were to have a nice selection on hand, to suit mood or food, and to have wines that weren't painfully young. I think that still holds true for me.

Regards
Ian

As the rookie wine collector ... you have summed up my reasons for starting to collect wine.

Research. Try wines. Try a lot of wines. Buy what you like, but not in massive quantities of a single label or type of wine unless you really like them. Try to have a broader cellar (I regret not doing this when first collecting), don't get red-obsessed (whites, fizz and fortifieds are all worthy cellar additions) and buy across price points to deal with all occasions. Put the corkscrew away when you are drunk and conversely be generous and open up "special wines" even when the occasion might not seem that special - the wine might make it so! Above all, have fun and keep drinking and trying stuff out. This is a disease of sorts, and can get a bit over the top if you let it, so keep a bit of balance and perspective. Like another poster said, there will always be another great vintage, another great new wine, another great new variety, another great new producer, etc. etc.

Mahmoud Ali wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. You seem to suggest buying without any strategy or selection and that is counter intuitive. How else can one have a Bordeaux or Barolo to drink at a later date? Buying can range from single bottles of premium wines to multiples of two and three as well as cases, however there should be some rhyme or reason to what one buys to put away.

How can you have one at a later date? You buy it? Plenty of places you can do that..and honestly, Australia has one of the best auction markets out there...but even beyond that, you can source older wine plenty of places...

Sure, cellaring it yourself means you know for sure it has been taken care of but so what? Yes that's nice..but when you actually look at what that cost you, it isn't an insignificant amount..plus you still carry risk...overall probably even more so.

And I didn't say don't cellar anything..but just purposely buy to cellar very little..you'll no doubt cellar some wine just by virtue of buying wines to drink...

We all end up cellaring because we all like the idea of it...I do too..but it probably isn't as great as we would like to believe it to be...

I've written this a couple of times and have taken out a lot of it but basically, I'm bringing up a counter argument to provoke thought....I'm very certain it won't change any minds or convince anyone not to buy to cellar...and obviously if you have the means and space and you want to buy multiple cases of everything you can get your hands on, more power to you, that's a luxury I think everyone would like but don't have.

But you just have to look at the number of people with:
More wine than they can ever drink in their lifetime
Selling their wine because they have too much
Cases of wine they don't want to drink

And also the comments about buying 1-2 or at most 3 vs cases...or getting over FOMO....or the fact that there will always be another vintage of the century around the corner...or a hot new producer..or your palate may change.....All of those comments are essentially saying don't buy a bunch to cellar...or leading to that same conclusion...

Enjoyed this thread immensely, 95% of my purchases are 6 or 12 bottles and yes have long runs of perennial favourites. Could be accused of having a very unbalanced cellar...but that's my problem.

I often have this little game going on in my head after 30+ years of purchasing...am I prepared to concede that I have made many mistakes over the journey, but the answer is always no, convincing myself, that most of it 84-86% is water, I don't have enough bottles that are in the upper stratosphere of heavy 3 and 4 digit price tags...and whats the worst thing that can happen when drinking with friends..."gee Craig that was a shit bottle, or wow, might have to chase some of that down."
Anyways its a hobby ( sometimes obsession), keeps me entertained and off the streets.

Tuxy, buy whatever you like would be my tip.

Cheers
Craig