The Auswine Forum

I have 9 of the top 10 in my cellar ... cannot stand Chardonnay ... so pretty happy! Guarantees me GREAT drinking for the next decade!!

Diddy wrote:So here's the breakdown of varietals:-

SHIRAZ & SYRAH - 41
CHARDONNAY - 16
PINOT - 12
CABERNET - 8
BLEND - 8
RIESLING - 6
GRENACHE - 4
OTHER - 4
FORTIFIED/DESSERT - 1

Thanks for that summary

I'd thought it remarkable that I could only see one fortified, as surely there are a number which are pretty special?

I've felt for a while that South Australian shiraz is over-hyped by Aussie critics and this list is no different. There is still too great a proportion of SA Shiraz amongst Aussie wines in my cellar (for my preferences), but buying of them has virtually stopped (running at about a bottle a year in the last 5 years) and the ones I bought at least can go a long time in the cellar.

Ian S wrote: I'd thought it remarkable that I could only see one fortified, as surely there are a number which are pretty special?

I've felt for a while that South Australian shiraz is over-hyped by Aussie critics and this list is no different. There is still too great a proportion of SA Shiraz amongst Aussie wines in my cellar (for my preferences), but buying of them has virtually stopped (running at about a bottle a year in the last 5 years) and the ones I bought at least can go a long time in the cellar.

That's really the main problem with the list..

I don't have any issues with any of the wines on the list...I don't think the wines on there are bad..and in fact they're probably all in that upper deck of AU wine in general...but it is the wines that are missing that make you wonder where they're tasting from or what type of experience the critic has.

I suppose if this list is for people that know very little about wine, I guess it is a good place to start...Given that is their target audience, I guess this is, in their mind, a good list. I just think Nick's comments about unique and interesting wine is a bit of a joke...

I wouldn't think people who are novices in wine would be buying/reading James Suckling's web site.
I subscribed for a couple of years for fun, Suckling actually isn't a bad guy, even though he might come across as being far from that , but I eventually gave it away as his writings are total nonsense. Sadly, pretty much all of his cronies writing for the web site pretty much follow suit.
Easy to sort out the sheep from the goats, just go to an edition from 10 years ago, look at some articles and scores, and see how they stack up today... pretty woeful in Suckling et al's case(s).

I didn't say novices...just people that know very little about wine...

Off topic a tad, but I plead more an "addendum", I was very surprised how well rounded and competent Sucklings Top 100 from NZ was. I am usually the first to scoff at such lists especially the ones constructed by overseas magazines or critics

Yes there were a few producers notably missing naturally driven by the fact James would not have tasted as widely as an obsessed local. No Stonyridge, no Puriri Hills, no Elephant Hill for starters, but overall it was a very solid list. I can't fault his top pick of 2015 Trinity Hill Homage. It truly is an absolute star. I think half of Bell Hill's production must be drunk by overseas critics. There can't be much left of the stuff to buy. The chardonnay especially is extremely difficult to purchase in NZ and even on the Mailing List you only get a couple of bottles a year allocated. It is good stuff though and they obviously do a good job getting it in front of the right people. Surprised to see given the run of exceptional vintages no Bordeaux Blends in the Top 10, but such is life.

1 TRINITY HILL SYRAH HAWKES BAY HOMAGE 2015
2 FELTON ROAD PINOT NOIR CENTRAL OTAGO BLOCK 5 2016
3 BELL HILL PINOT NOIR WAIKARI 2014
4 RIPPON PINOT NOIR CENTRAL OTAGO TINKER'S FIELD 2014
5 ATA RANGI PINOT NOIR MARTINBOROUGH 2016
6 FROMM WINERY PINOT NOIR MARLBOROUGH CLAYVIN VINEYARD 2015
7 BILANCIA SYRAH HAWKES BAY LA COLLINA 2015
8 BELL HILL CHARDONNAY CANTERBURY BELL HILL 2014
9 ESCARPMENT PINOT NOIR MARTINBOROUGH TE REHUA 2015
10 PYRAMID VALLEY PINOT NOIR CANTERBURY ANGEL FLOWER 2015

Back on topic, I certainly wish I had the money to throw at trying the 2010 Henschke Hill of Grace! It's been seven years now since I last drank my last remaining bottle of HOG and considering you can buy a six pack of Homage for the same price, I doubt I ever will again unless in a tasting! Oh for the days it was $150

I used to purchase my allocation from Bell Hill of one or two each of the three wines
I don’t enjoy them
The Chardonnay is disturbingly tropical & the pinots lack pinosity for me
I think rarity makes them desirable

1 TRINITY HILL SYRAH HAWKES BAY HOMAGE 2015

"Quite possibly the greatest expression of Syrah that New Zealand has produced to date." James Suckling on the 2015 Homage


Speak of the devil. Offers coming in by email. $100 AUD a bottle in HKG. Seems pricy for a Kiwi?

JamieBahrain wrote:

1 TRINITY HILL SYRAH HAWKES BAY HOMAGE 2015

"Quite possibly the greatest expression of Syrah that New Zealand has produced to date." James Suckling on the 2015 Homage


Speak of the devil. Offers coming in by email. $100 AUD a bottle in HKG. Seems pricy for a Kiwi?

As a non shiraz drinker
I have one on the tasting bench for this week....

Diddy wrote:So here's the breakdown of varietals:-

SHIRAZ & SYRAH - 41
CHARDONNAY - 16
PINOT - 12
CABERNET - 8
BLEND - 8
RIESLING - 6
GRENACHE - 4
OTHER - 4
FORTIFIED/DESSERT - 1

Just as a reference point, I grabbed all 96 point or greater Australian wines according to TWF (2012 onwards) and the spread of varietals is as follows:-

SHIRAZ & SYRAH 26.0%
CHARDONNAY 22.3%
PINOT 19.0%
CABERNET 9.9%
BLEND 9.5%
RIESLING 5.9%
GRENACHE 4.0%
SEMILLON 2.6%
SAUVIGNON BLANC 0.4%
MERLOT 0.4%

Interestingly the spread of varietals are fairly similar save for TWF having slightly more Chardonnay/Pinot instead of Shiraz.

Diddy wrote:Just as a reference point, I grabbed all 96 point or greater Australian wines according to TWF (2012 onwards) and the spread of varietals is as follows:-

SHIRAZ & SYRAH 26.0%
CHARDONNAY 22.3%
PINOT 19.0%
CABERNET 9.9%
BLEND 9.5%
RIESLING 5.9%
GRENACHE 4.0%
SEMILLON 2.6%
SAUVIGNON BLANC 0.4%
MERLOT 0.4%

Interestingly the spread of varietals are fairly similar save for TWF having slightly more Chardonnay/Pinot instead of Shiraz.

How did you extract that information from TWF?

mjs wrote:

phillisc wrote:Without giving BL a whack...no love for Coonawarra period??!!
Cheers
Craig

To paraphrase Craig, how many shiraz labels can you fit into 100? Seriously, a very one-dimensional listing. Lots of shiraz, some token pinot and cabernet, maybe a grenache or two, a smattering of whites .... and not much else. Don't think that it accurately reflects the Australian wine industry. I love Fraser McKinley and what he's doing at Sami Odi, but Dallwitz at #2? Very esoteric!

I am looking at lots of NZ wine atm in many wine shops
What are the smashing right bank Cabernet styles to try?
TIA

Ozzie W wrote:

Diddy wrote:Just as a reference point, I grabbed all 96 point or greater Australian wines according to TWF (2012 onwards) and the spread of varietals is as follows:-

SHIRAZ & SYRAH 26.0%
CHARDONNAY 22.3%
PINOT 19.0%
CABERNET 9.9%
BLEND 9.5%
RIESLING 5.9%
GRENACHE 4.0%
SEMILLON 2.6%
SAUVIGNON BLANC 0.4%
MERLOT 0.4%

Interestingly the spread of varietals are fairly similar save for TWF having slightly more Chardonnay/Pinot instead of Shiraz.

How did you extract that information from TWF?

A bit of gold old fashioned copy/paste and a word scraping tool I built for work.

odyssey wrote:I noticed the same as Dave Vino. No NSW, not even Graveyard or Tyrrels Vats or Lovedale. Or Murrumbateman (eg. Collector?).

Nor Tasmania - surely one of Arras, Domaine A, Dalrymple or etc would rate a mention.

Unless the best wineries from both states suffered shocker years for all current releases.

Hold your horses! There's two. Both from the same winery and from the same grape... but there's two.

19 CHATTO PINOT NOIR TASMANIA HUON VALLEY ISLE 2016

47 CHATTO PINOT NOIR TASMANIA HUON VALLEY 2016

Craig(NZ) wrote:Back on topic, I certainly wish I had the money to throw at trying the 2010 Henschke Hill of Grace! It's been seven years now since I last drank my last remaining bottle of HOG and considering you can buy a six pack of Homage for the same price, I doubt I ever will again unless in a tasting! Oh for the days it was $150

What about the days in the early-mid 90's when it was $25!!

mjs wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Back on topic, I certainly wish I had the money to throw at trying the 2010 Henschke Hill of Grace! It's been seven years now since I last drank my last remaining bottle of HOG and considering you can buy a six pack of Homage for the same price, I doubt I ever will again unless in a tasting! Oh for the days it was $150

What about the days in the early-mid 90's when it was $25!!

Indeed 2 dozen bottles of the 1990 purchased for $600...whats that now, 4 glasses!!??

Cheers
Craig

I assume it's a list based on US availability. Nothing much else explains its rather skewed nature.
Which is fine.
I gave up on 'top-x' lists years ago.
Graeme

Nope..that's not it...because some of those wines aren't available in the US...

Whereas you can find some Hunter Shiraz and Semillon...Vat 9, Vat 1, etc.

michel wrote:
I am looking at lots of NZ wine atm in many wine shops
What are the smashing right bank Cabernet styles to try?
TIA

Michel, Craig NZ is better person to answer this.

Two of the top Right bank Merlot dominant wines in NZ are Craggy Range Sophia and Puriri Hills Pope. Judith at Puriri Hills loves Pomerol and all her wines are made in an elegant but powerful bdx right bank style. There are others but I am not familiar with them so cannot comment.

Brodie

brodie wrote:

michel wrote:
I am looking at lots of NZ wine atm in many wine shops
What are the smashing right bank Cabernet styles to try?
TIA

Michel, Craig NZ is better person to answer this.

Two of the top Right bank Merlot dominant wines in NZ are Craggy Range Sophia and Puriri Hills Pope. Judith at Puriri Hills loves Pomerol and all her wines are made in an elegant but powerful bdx right bank style. There are others but I am not familiar with them so cannot comment.

Brodie

Cheerre mate
I love Judith and PH
I am looking for other right bank style wines to try
I think Craggy have dropped the new oak levels back so may have to retry

michel wrote:

brodie wrote:

michel wrote:
I am looking at lots of NZ wine atm in many wine shops
What are the smashing right bank Cabernet styles to try?
TIA

Michel, Craig NZ is better person to answer this.

Two of the top Right bank Merlot dominant wines in NZ are Craggy Range Sophia and Puriri Hills Pope. Judith at Puriri Hills loves Pomerol and all her wines are made in an elegant but powerful bdx right bank style. There are others but I am not familiar with them so cannot comment.

Brodie

Cheerre mate
I love Judith and PH
I am looking for other right bank style wines to try
I think Craggy have dropped the new oak levels back so may have to retry

Hmmm Merlot dominant wines worth trying. As noted Puriri Hills definitely (Pope, Reserve and Estate), Craggy Range Sophia has improved but isn't quite as profound as the PH. There is also Providence from Matakana, and St Nesbit from South Auckland

phillisc wrote:

mjs wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Back on topic, I certainly wish I had the money to throw at trying the 2010 Henschke Hill of Grace! It's been seven years now since I last drank my last remaining bottle of HOG and considering you can buy a six pack of Homage for the same price, I doubt I ever will again unless in a tasting! Oh for the days it was $150

What about the days in the early-mid 90's when it was $25!!

Indeed 2 dozen bottles of the 1990 purchased for $600...whats that now, 4 glasses!!??

Cheers
Craig

Showing your age

michel wrote:I used to purchase my allocation from Bell Hill of one or two each of the three wines
I don’t enjoy them
The Chardonnay is disturbingly tropical & the pinots lack pinosity for me
I think rarity makes them desirable

I've tried Bell Hill only a few times, every time up against other star wines and it has performed well.

The 2006 Pinot I had a couple of years back for a dinner we put on for my wife 40th, demolished all comers. It was amazing and upstaged Dom, Grange and the like. It seems to age well and improve

The chardonnay I have only tried once and i held its own among other NZ heavyweight chardonnay at a blind tasting we did. Funny though it was one of the two chardonnays I didn't pick blind. I confused it with Sacred Hill Riflemans so maybe your comment suggesting it is further along the ripeness spectrum than you would imagine has merit. I did think it would be more minerally.

michel wrote:

JamieBahrain wrote:

1 TRINITY HILL SYRAH HAWKES BAY HOMAGE 2015

"Quite possibly the greatest expression of Syrah that New Zealand has produced to date." James Suckling on the 2015 Homage


Speak of the devil. Offers coming in by email. $100 AUD a bottle in HKG. Seems pricy for a Kiwi?

As a non shiraz drinker
I have one on the tasting bench for this week....

Interested to see what you think. I loved it, exciting wine

Very interested here too.... can't help but feel it might still be a bit oak heavy for my tastes, I'm becoming very obvious-oak-averse and while I try to be patriotic, oak isn't something NZ has handled well over the past 20 years IMHO. Yet by all accounts the times they are a changing which is an exciting prospect for NZ wine.

TiggerK wrote:Very interested here too.... can't help but feel it might still be a bit oak heavy for my tastes, I'm becoming very obvious-oak-averse and while I try to be patriotic, oak isn't something NZ has handled well over the past 20 years IMHO. Yet by all accounts the times they are a changing which is an exciting prospect for NZ wine.

http://www.geoffkellywinereviews.co.nz/inde ... icleID=217

Looking at a bottle of Esk Valley Terraces 100% new oak
Compare the tasting notes and comments of the top two wines
For example


; Tanzer, 96: intensely perfumed (NZ winemakers please note, how do you smell floral components if the wine is over-oaked, vanillin alone is not enough)



La Chapelle 20% new oak
At some stage balance has to realised.......

Craig(NZ) wrote:

phillisc wrote:

mjs wrote: What about the days in the early-mid 90's when it was $25!!

Indeed 2 dozen bottles of the 1990 purchased for $600...whats that now, 4 glasses!!??

Cheers
Craig

Showing your age

And my good fellow Craig...loving it .
Some benefits of getting a little older despite going blind, getting cranky and shattered teeth

Cheers Craig

Craig(NZ) wrote:

phillisc wrote:

mjs wrote: What about the days in the early-mid 90's when it was $25!!

Indeed 2 dozen bottles of the 1990 purchased for $600...whats that now, 4 glasses!!??

Cheers
Craig

Showing your age

Don't get me started on '71 Grange then ....

Polymer wrote:I didn't say novices...just people that know very little about wine...

See this is what I love about you Kev
I would have thought that is one and the same
But at our next meet you will describe all those extreme differences

michel wrote:

TiggerK wrote:Very interested here too.... can't help but feel it might still be a bit oak heavy for my tastes, I'm becoming very obvious-oak-averse and while I try to be patriotic, oak isn't something NZ has handled well over the past 20 years IMHO. Yet by all accounts the times they are a changing which is an exciting prospect for NZ wine.

http://www.geoffkellywinereviews.co.nz/inde ... icleID=217

Looking at a bottle of Esk Valley Terraces 100% new oak
Compare the tasting notes and comments of the top two wines
For example


; Tanzer, 96: intensely perfumed (NZ winemakers please note, how do you smell floral components if the wine is over-oaked, vanillin alone is not enough)



La Chapelle 20% new oak
At some stage balance has to realised.......

I never thought I would see the day that over-oaking was a topic on an auswine thread lol

My opinion on Terraces is that after losing its way 2000-2009, the 2013-2015 are back on form and are brilliant wines. They have some real structure and depth and have performed very well in the last two blind tastings I have attended with them in the mix