July Sydney Offline - Rockford vs. Wendouree vs. Mt Ed

[redwhiteandrose]

Here's a silly suggestion. Given the hype (on CT as well as from the critics) maybe you could throw in St Henri 2010 as a ringer to see how it stands up to its peers. Benchmark Penfold's best effort in the sub-$100 SA shiraz bracket.

I'll get my coat.........

[deejay81]

Do we need/want a Champagne to start the night?
I'm only asking because of my lack of bottles of these wines.
I can bring a Mount Ed 1992 and if you guys want a Champagne, Lauren can bring an '04 Bolly LGA?
If not we'll go Auction hunting.

[maybs]

Do we need/want a Champagne to start the night?
I'm only asking because of my lack of bottles of these wines.
I can bring a Mount Ed 1992 and if you guys want a Champagne, Lauren can bring an '04 Bolly LGA?
If not we'll go Auction hunting.

We don't need champagne to start an offline...said no one ever! I for one think it's a good idea, especially with a red dominated tasting.

[Hacker]

Do we need/want a Champagne to start the night?
I'm only asking because of my lack of bottles of these wines.
I can bring a Mount Ed 1992 and if you guys want a Champagne, Lauren can bring an '04 Bolly LGA?
If not we'll go Auction hunting.

We don't need champagne to start an offline...said no one ever! I for one think it's a good idea, especially with a red dominated tasting.

Me too! Thanks guys

First post being updated with wine offerings.

[Krusty]

Had a hunt through the cellar yesterday, I will bring a 2003 BP.

[Hacker]

http://www.rocketrestaurant.com.au/
So far:
Hacker 1994 Wendouree shiraz
Krusty 2003 Rockford BP
Vinh Nguyen 09,10 or 12 Mt Ed
Tiggerk Wendouree
burges 2010 Rockford BP
Polymer Wendouree
dave vino 1996 Mt Ed
maybs 2006 Mt Ed or 2004 Rockford BP
deejay81. 1992 Mt Ed
Lauren. 2004 Bollinger Champagne
ufo Wendouree
pc79 2005 Rockford BP

Reserves:
Mrs pc79
Michael R
Red Smurf

Just updating the wines.

[JamieBahrain]

Based on experience unfortunately.

Granted not vast experience, but years ago I chased all the top older vintages at auction..90, 91, 96 Mount eds in particular and all were average or faulty.
Even the Cyril's were all shot or drinkable but nothing special. Only had a few Wendouree from auction but most were faulty too.
Funnily enough (or not for me) I've been down to Henschke and bought direct a few times and still ended up with corked wines...a museum release of 92 Mount Ed springs to mind a few years ago.
Not bashing the winery by any means, and plenty of drinkers here have collected and stored safely over the years and enjoyed the wines.
I did open an 02 HoG at Christmas which thanks be to baby Jesus was in perfect nick and showed well.


One theory I have is a lot of these might wines get given as presents... a few friends of mine have Rockford/Henschke bottles on racks in their kitchen or under the stairs.
If you see a Rousseau at auction, it's likely the seller has stored it safely...but a Mount Ed....maybe not.

Also, I mentioned older vintages specifically in my earlier post.
However I also think how robust the grape is has not much impact if a bottle is poorly stored or cork is faulty.

Not sure if I've answered your question, but basically my experience of buying 'older' Mount Eds at auction has been beyond poor.

Hi Michael

The Museum Release should have been replaced at cellar door or at least met Henschke's standard policy of refunding a tainted wine with a current release.

As a collector of Henschke wines I concur that secondary market purchases present risks. The wines are up there with the greatest shiraz wines indisputably but this is so reliant on proper cellaring. My recent Hill of Grace dinner was spectacular for that very reason. The majority of bottles perfectly cellared since release.The delicate complexities are what elevated the wines- comments from experts at the dinner included a Burgundian magic on some mature vintages.

Now, where does it go wrong? Wow, on the foreign boards it looks like some pretty poorly transported wines end up abroad and it would be criminal if logistics were not world class now.

Back home, geez, I had a liquor license and recall picking up Henschke wines ( and Bannockburn,Moss Wood ) from Tailor Seabrook in Brunswick. Summer and a the warehouse was open with palates stored to the roof. As a fastidious and careful collector I was shocked. Even Hensche Cellar Door was pretty iffy. Yeah sure, felt cool coming from outside during summer but it wasn't the ideal temperature. Thy now have a new area that staff suggested was cooler. Anyways, go figure, but charging $700 a bottle lapses such as the rumors of the 98 Mt Ed storage are inexcusable.

Retailors can be mugs and fraudsters too. I recall driving to the Barossa and Mt Ed 1992 being stored on a rack in a drive through in the Elizabeth area. What fool would have bought these? Did they get shipped to auction on the east coast where their price realization higher? The retail scene in the early 90's in Adelaide was like a country town full of bargains. I'd spend overnight stays with Ansett searching for bargains but the storage was so appalling I never bought much.

[phillisc]

Now where does it go wrong??

Jamie, here might be a few pointers for starters IMHO

1. Small family winery on the cusp (in very late 80s and very early 90s)...then right on top of the wave!
2. Main competition at the time awarded international wine of the year for 1990 vintage, at the time of release 5+ times more expensive than HoG
3. Wheels start turning...might be time to make some serious money and compete.

As an aside,
1990 HoG paid $25 pb for a dozen...sold 10 bottles at $400 each at an Adelaide auction house (weren't very many players in the Adelaide scene in the early-mid 1990s) only a handful of years later...better than CBA shares and tax free, now where have those days gone?
Those who got given them as gifts because they were considered iconic ( and no argument they are) were soon caught in the spiral...too good to drink...but should I sell, but that would be bad, its a gift...but should I have the trophy bottle in the bottom draw of the fridge instead of on top of it?
Now ulaged, perhaps oxisided, try and sell...none wants it...but will hang onto it for an occasion...what's the fuss...gee tastes like vinegar.

4. 1994 vintage...hideously expensive ( thought about buying some for a kid's birth year but baulked)
5. Fast forward a decade or so, now in line with the main competition, outrageously over priced and 'desperate' to topple any other Barossa totem that may be ahead of it.
6. Joined the restaurant ranks, not sure how the complete set is faring in those conditions.
7. Flavour of the month, darling of the wine scene, I will leave others to judge.

I purchased 3 2012 Mount Edelstone's to drink with my lads in 20 years or so. We might share one together and they can have the others.
There will not be any similar purchase of 2012 HoG.

Have no idea where it will all end up, but it will be an interesting story to follow, I can not think of any other wine that has increased 28 times in 20 vintages...good on them, but I am just a spectator.

Cheers
Craig.

[TiggerK]

MIne is a Wendouree Shiraz Malbec 1991....

[Hacker]

http://www.rocketrestaurant.com.au/
So far:
Hacker 1994 Wendouree shiraz
Krusty 2003 Rockford BP
Vinh Nguyen 09,10 or 12 Mt Ed
Tiggerk Wendouree Shiraz Malbec 1991
burges 2010 Rockford BP
Polymer Wendouree
dave vino 1996 Mt Ed
maybs 2006 Mt Ed
deejay81. 1992 Mt Ed
Lauren. 2004 Bollinger Champagne
ufo 2003 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro
pc79 2005 Rockford BP

Reserves:
Mrs pc79
Michael R
Red Smurf

Just updating the wines.

[Hacker]

MIne is a Wendouree Shiraz Malbec 1991....

That should be nice! Lita Brady said 1991 was the best year in her memory!

[deejay81]

Funnily enough (or not for me) I've been down to Henschke and bought direct a few times and still ended up with corked wines...a museum release of 92 Mount Ed springs to mind a few years ago.

The '92 Mt Ed I plan on bringing is also a museum release from the winery, I hope we have better luck with that one

[maybs]

The way it's looking it looks like a fine split of whether I should bring the '06 Mt Ed or the '04 BP.

The '04 BPBP would make a mini vertical but I am open minded. Anyone got a view/preference?

[Hacker]

The way it's looking it looks like a fine split of whether I should bring the '06 Mt Ed or the '04 BP.

The '04 BPBP would make a mini vertical but I am open minded. Anyone got a view/preference?

Would probably prefer the Mt Ed, as there are already four Rockfords. But really your choice.

[Krusty]

The way it's looking it looks like a fine split of whether I should bring the '06 Mt Ed or the '04 BP.

The '04 BPBP would make a mini vertical but I am open minded. Anyone got a view/preference?

Would probably prefer the Mt Ed, as there are already four Rockfords. But really your choice.

Is there Dave?

My read is of 12 attendees we have

1 LGA
4 Wendouree
3 Rockford
3 Mt Ed
Equals 11 attendess

Scott is the 12th and can bring a BP or a Mt Ed.

So the question is do we want 4 BP's and 3 Mt Eds or 4 Mt Eds and 3 BP's.

Not a bad problem to have ! My vote for what it is worth is 4 Mt Ed's ( which in effect is a pretty long winded way of agreeing with you, but my not so inner pedant needed to make a point )

[JamieBahrain]

FWIW the 1996 Mt Ed is in cracking form. Have had 6 in the last few months ( one a few nights ago ). Beautiful though a mini-me the the HofG of the same year.

[Hacker]

Krusty. So I can't read or add up. But I beat yo at golf the other day. So get over it.

[maybs]

Krusty. So I can't read or add up. But I beat yo at golf the other day. So get over it.

haha

Yeah that is why I asked, even split of BP and Mt Ed.

I will bring the Mt Ed if I can find it in the cellar. 95% sure I know where it is.

[JamieBahrain]

Now where does it go wrong??

Jamie, here might be a few pointers for starters IMHO

1. Small family winery on the cusp (in very late 80s and very early 90s)...then right on top of the wave!
2. Main competition at the time awarded international wine of the year for 1990 vintage, at the time of release 5+ times more expensive than HoG
3. Wheels start turning...might be time to make some serious money and compete.

As an aside,
1990 HoG paid $25 pb for a dozen...sold 10 bottles at $400 each at an Adelaide auction house (weren't very many players in the Adelaide scene in the early-mid 1990s) only a handful of years later...better than CBA shares and tax free, now where have those days gone?
Those who got given them as gifts because they were considered iconic ( and no argument they are) were soon caught in the spiral...too good to drink...but should I sell, but that would be bad, its a gift...but should I have the trophy bottle in the bottom draw of the fridge instead of on top of it?
Now ulaged, perhaps oxisided, try and sell...none wants it...but will hang onto it for an occasion...what's the fuss...gee tastes like vinegar.

4. 1994 vintage...hideously expensive ( thought about buying some for a kid's birth year but baulked)
5. Fast forward a decade or so, now in line with the main competition, outrageously over priced and 'desperate' to topple any other Barossa totem that may be ahead of it.
6. Joined the restaurant ranks, not sure how the complete set is faring in those conditions.
7. Flavour of the month, darling of the wine scene, I will leave others to judge.

I purchased 3 2012 Mount Edelstone's to drink with my lads in 20 years or so. We might share one together and they can have the others.
There will not be any similar purchase of 2012 HoG.

Have no idea where it will all end up, but it will be an interesting story to follow, I can not think of any other wine that has increased 28 times in 20 vintages...good on them, but I am just a spectator.

Cheers
Craig.

Craig you have to let it go mate. Hill of Grace is a First Growth in price and quality. I share your frustration but being realistic, Henschke has never sold their wines short.


Great strategy re - Mt Ed. Frankly, it is underpriced.

[phillisc]

Cheers Jamie,

I have let it go...but not convinced that the mums and dads wine buyers in Australia are ready for a first growth.
Exponential wine increases have to stop somewhere don't they...or am I just dreaming/naive whatever??

Interestingly I had two emails today..one for Henschke and one for Pennies...where 2010s marques of each are almost line ball in price.

Yes the bottle of Mt Ed that I will give each of the lads will be stored at 14C and under stelvin, so should go the distance.

I wonder If I do have to have another moment of absolute madness and maybe buy three more...oh wait I will...2012 Wynns John Riddoch...praying that the floor (not the bullshit RRP) price will be less than Mt Ed.

I am sorry that it seems we are destined never to meet (both having Adelaide connections) at an offline.
I have an very early start Saturday to head to nirvana...aka Coonawarra.
You would certainly bring something that I have probably never heard of, but sure it would be a top drop.

Cheers
Craig

PS. there is no doubting your position on second hand HoGs...the 94s at the time were exxy but look really cheap now...just like the case of 82 JR I have ( $11pb on release)...
but I see many 94s and 97s HoGs ( the other lads year) south of $400 and 97s even cheaper...is it worth a punt?

[Michael R]

Thanks Jamie

Yes, caveat emptor at auction. I accept it readily. I should have returned the 92 Mount Ed o the winery though, but was too lazy.
Just having a whinge the the rate of faulty Henschke wine I've had, I think I'm jinxed!
Great winery though, loved each visit.
Actually had a very young and enjoyable 12 Euphonium last night, nice wine.

Apologies Hacker et al for thread drift .

[maybs]

Just thought I would bump this as it is on the end of next week

Timely reminder I MUST dig around this weekend for that 2006 Mt Ed.

[ufo]

My Wendouree is 2003 Sh/Mt.

[TiggerK]

Not sure what order you have in mind Hacker, but for the record here we have the lineup as far as I can gather from this thread.

2004 Bollinger Champagne (lauren)

1994 Wendouree Shiraz (Hacker)
1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec (TiggerK)
2003 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro (ufo)
???? Wendouree ?? (Polymer)

Mt Edelstone 1992 (deejay81)
Mt Edelstone 1996 (dave vino)
Mt Edelstone 2006 (maybs)

Basket Press 2003 (krusty)
Basket Press 2005 (pc79)
Basket Press 2010 (burges)


Cheers
Tim

[pc79]

Still all good for this (Mrs is still keen too - waiting in the wings)
Armed with 2005 Rockford BP

Then 09 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro
and/or 2011 Basket Press

[Hacker]

Not sure what order you have in mind Hacker, but for the record here we have the lineup as far as I can gather from this thread.

2004 Bollinger Champagne (lauren)

1994 Wendouree Shiraz (Hacker)
1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec (TiggerK)
2003 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro (ufo)
???? Wendouree ?? (Polymer)

Mt Edelstone 1992 (deejay81)
Mt Edelstone 1996 (dave vino)
Mt Edelstone 2006 (maybs)

Basket Press 2003 (krusty)
Basket Press 2005 (pc79)
Basket Press 2010 (burges)


Cheers
Tim

Happy to take thoughts on this as we have two Barossa's and one Clare. So doe we pit BP vs. Ed or Clare vs. Barossa? I'm open minded on this, just excited we have some lovely wines to share!

We could match age, like 1991 Wendouree vs. 1992 Ed, and 1994 Wendouree vs. 1996 Ed and 2003 BP vs. 2003 Wendouree?? But open to other ideas

[pc79]

Oldest to youngest?

[ufo]

Not sure what order you have in mind Hacker, but for the record here we have the lineup as far as I can gather from this thread.

2004 Bollinger Champagne (lauren)

1994 Wendouree Shiraz (Hacker)
1991 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec (TiggerK)
2003 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro (ufo)
???? Wendouree ?? (Polymer)

Mt Edelstone 1992 (deejay81)
Mt Edelstone 1996 (dave vino)
Mt Edelstone 2006 (maybs)

Basket Press 2003 (krusty)
Basket Press 2005 (pc79)
Basket Press 2010 (burges)


Cheers
Tim

Happy to take thoughts on this as we have two Barossa's and one Clare. So doe we pit BP vs. Ed or Clare vs. Barossa? I'm open minded on this, just excited we have some lovely wines to share!

We could match age, like 1991 Wendouree vs. 1992 Ed, and 1994 Wendouree vs. 1996 Ed and 2003 BP vs. 2003 Wendouree?? But open to other ideas

Yeah, I like this too, see how they show/compare against each other

[Polymer]

A couple of things...Vinh is coming too I think with a Mt Edelstone...

But as far as the order...A bit torn on a head to head just because of the contrasting styles.....but whatever everyone else wants I'm sure it'll be fine...

[ufo]

A couple of things...Vinh is coming too I think with a Mt Edelstone...

But as far as the order...A bit torn on a head to head just because of the contrasting styles.....but whatever everyone else wants I'm sure it'll be fine...

I'm not too fussed either. Whichever the way is fine with me.