Baby Penfold's

[newworld]

Great posts! It's good to be back on topic!

Penfolds Koonunga Hill "76" Shiraz Cabernet is a good call, although not easy to find. The standard Koonunga Hill should be this good.

In the UK Bin 28 is only $20 (I managed to get a case half price - GBP6.67 (A$10) a bottle - can you believe it?), yet most other Aussie wines are more expensive over there than they are here. I really think Penfold's is taking the ****.

"Baby 28 - Teusner Riebke, Mike Press, Jacon's Creek Reserve, Thorn-Clarke Shotfire, D'Arenberg Footbolt (If found at a discounted price) "

On special these are about $15 each - some can be had below $10. Why are Penfold double this price or more?

[rens]

Why are Penfold double this price or more?

Eight little letters:
PENFOLDS

[newworld]

Right. Hence we shouldn't waste our money on their wine. Hence we need alternatives. Hence this thread

[Ddavew]

Baby 389 - Yalumba FDR1A Cabernet Shiraz
Baby 407 - Tulloch cellar door cab sav.
Baby 138 - Turkey Flat GSM
Baby 128 - Seppelt chalambar shiraz
Baby 28 - Gramp's Shiraz

This is out of what i've had from the past, Penfolds wine are good, but they are not the only one.

[newworld]

Thanks Ddavew!

I've got a 2004 chalamba (it needs 10 years, right?) and I think I've tried the Gramp's (and maybe not liked it.) The others are new to me.

The Turkey Flat sounds great - consistantly awarded 94 points by Halliday (Penfold's Bin territory)

Don't live near Tulloch Estate and don't like buying a case without trying, but it sounds good!

Yalumba seem to be a big threat to the 389 with great cab shirazes at all price points. I've got the Scibbler cellared away, but haven't tried Fine Dry Red 1A. Halliday seems to rate them equally, yet the Scribbler is a bit cheaper.

Great work!

[Ddavew]

No worries newworld, i'm still sort of new to the "wine world".

I've got 04 to 09 chalambar shiraz still under my basement, some people prefer to have the 04 now and some prefer to cellar for another 3-5 years.

Gramp's shiraz aren't bad, but there are people thinks that it is lack of length on finish, give it a few more years to judge again, always gives the wine another chance for its potentials.

I always prefer turkey flat shiraz over anything else in this winery, but the GSM has its own reputation.(not a GSM person myself).

Tulloch is one of the famous/long history winery in hunter, but their flagship wine are always not for tasting, but it is still worth to try, i think the big chain wine stores has a tulloch cab sav. that you could get ,i have the 08 cab sav. and it is a great everyday drinking wine and for medium term cellar.

I haven't tried/cellar alot of yalumba wines, but i have tried a few different vintages of FDR1A from dinner and parties, again, these wines needs age(just like penfolds!!)

I try to buy more than 2 bottles of each wine so i can try them in the next few years, 1 bottle just doesn't cut it!(for me). Not to be rude here, i have nothing against any of the wine writers/tasting note reviews,but sometimes i found those ratings cant be taken into serious considerations when you are deciding to purchase wines, specially the ones from the store itself.

[newworld]

Fantastic stuff, Dave. There's so much I agree with there.

The good thing about being a newbie is that you can say whatever you want and not need to worry about your reputation (because you don't have one )

Funnily enough, I'm not a big fan of GSM (so far, anyway), but I rather enjoyed the current Bin 138!

But not the price, though

The only one I've fancied that ticked all the boxes (price, critical acclaim, etc) is 2010 Red Knot GSM but I can can't find that vintage.

[Ddavew]

I don't mind people judging what i thought because there is much difference even with the same wine but i do enjoy reading what others thoughts are.

If you enjoy GSM you should get down to those big chain stores and start getting different ones and try it out. the 09 penfolds GSM was mentioned as a "better vintage" out of the range,not too sure about the new release.i have yet to try any well aged GSM yet.

[Polymer]

Fantastic stuff, Dave. There's so much I agree with there.

The good thing about being a newbie is that you can say whatever you want and not need to worry about your reputation (because you don't have one )

Funnily enough, I'm not a big fan of GSM (so far, anyway), but I rather enjoyed the current Bin 138!

But not the price, though

The only one I've fancied that ticked all the boxes (price, critical acclaim, etc) is 2010 Red Knot GSM but I can can't find that vintage.

If you like big wines, you'll probably like GSMs or Grenache Blends...There are some that are blending Touriga Nacional or other things in with Grenache and Shiraz....This is also one of those blends you'll see done w/o oak quite often...

It was mentioned earlier in the thread but the John Duval Plexus is quite good...I think you can get it for 30+ but it is a LOT better than the 138. Some others you might want to try:
Two Hands Brave Faces
Torbreck The Steading - This and the Plexus are probably two of the better GSM blends..
Torbreck Cuvee Juveniles (Not oaked)
St. Hallet GST
Schild Estate GMS (not oaked). Pretty cheap, not too bad...Popular with non wine geeks..my wife likes this a lot..

[newworld]

Thanks Polymer.

I think I'll have become an alchoholic before I've even sampled half the recommendations I've had on here....

[Polymer]

One thing you can do is try to attend local wine tastings...All of the big regions have these road shows that go to most of the major cities...For the cost of a bottle of wine you can get in and try a ton of different things...ends up being a LOT cheaper than trying to source it and drink a bottle yourself.

Not too much in the way of international stuff in Australia (although there have been a few) but as far as trying Domestic Australian wine there are a good number...

A few shops have regular tastings, some charge..some don't...

[newworld]

Thanks Polymer. I well into the shop tastings. There was a good tasting at St Kilda beach a week ago.

I'm looking forward to the Coonawarra event this year. I'm a big fan of Coonawarra cabernet (who isn't?)

I'm not really that ready for overseas wine. Australian wine seems much better qpr, at least here in Australia.

Finally, a bombshell. Penfold's wines are not overpriced. The secondary market shows that they have been selling their wine too cheaply in the past and are just catching up with the market.

Did I just say that?

[Polymer]

Australian wine actually does not have great QPR overall globally (IMO). It isn't because of the wine, but right now the high AUD makes it very difficult......But when you compare it to a lot of international stuff in Australia it does.. I think the only international stuff I've seen be reasonable is Italian...and maybe some Beaujolais (sometimes) and a few smaller NZ producers....Most of it is just ridiculously high and it isn't because of WET....

Not sure if you're being sarcastic about the Penfolds...but if you check out the prices at Langtons, what the market says and what Penfolds says are pretty far apart...To be fair, most wines go for quite a bit less at auction and Penfolds actually does relatively ok if you consider street vs. actual secondary market prices. RRP...not so much....As in, Penfolds might go for, on auction, 20-30% less than street whereas some wines might go for 50-75% less than street (especially the lesser known ones). There are some that go for more than RRP but to put it all in perspective, they do hold their value relative to lesser known wines...

But taking a few samples..:

389 2008: 38
389 2007: 42
389 2006: 52
389 1998: 74
28 2008: 22
28 2007: 20
28 2006: 21
128 2008: 22
128 2007: 21
128 2006: 22
138 2008: 27
138 2007: 20
138 2006: 22
407 2007: 29
407 2006: 34
407 2005: 41
407 2004: 39

It shows what Penfolds thinks (RRP wise) is really far off from what the secondary market thinks. And what it goes for street (after heavy discounts) is still higher than what the secondary market sells for but not too too far off..
Definitely there is a market for aged Penfolds bin stuff...It keeps its value fairly well in the secondary market...but you're not really making anything on it..

However, this is rather contrary to overseas where you can buy aged Penfolds stuff...cheap. No one really cares and there is no demand for it...

[newworld]

Good work, sir!

I hadn't exactly done my homework before saying this, so I appreciate the info. Even though my argument doesn't quite hold up, I think you've proved that it almost does. And relative to other wines, it keeps it's value better. So, you could make the case for Penfold's increasing their price more until their wines lose as much money as other brands when sold on the secondary market

As far as the AUD goes, yes it's extremely high, but as you said, these wines are still not that cheap. I sampled a Rioja last week that was being sold for $200 (discounted around 15% in the first week.) I found the same wine on sale in the US and UK for AUD30-50. How stupid do they think we are? And no wonder the winemaker came over to spruke his products. He must have been rubbing his hands together with glee at the thought of selling his wine for vastly inflated prices, especially when the home market must be so weak. I settled on this instead: Marques de Riscal 'Proximo' Rioja viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12489

[Polymer]

Yeah..the prices are ridiculous..the high AUD just makes Australian wine not great QPR relative to others..the high prices in Australia are just the retailers ripping people a new one...The thing is, Aussies are so used to the prices being higher that they don't think anything of it. What is really bad is you can buy some wine overseas and come back and sell it at Auction and make a significant amount of money...Nothing massive but an easy 75-100/bottle.

As far as your argument....I'm not quite sure I'd go that far . haha

[newworld]

Hey you can buy Penfold's Grange for GBP220 (AUD330) and sell it here for $600 (?)

Import 3 yourself and you've made almost a grand!

Is that difference just due to taxes?

[Mark Carrington]

Hey you can buy Penfold's Grange for GBP220 (AUD330) and sell it here for $600 (?)

Import 3 yourself and you've made almost a grand!

Is that difference just due to taxes?

< smug alert on> A quick check located several less than £200. <off>.
Even at that price, there's far better value to be had. As a sweeping generalisation on my part, Penfolds pricing policy has been a exercise in cynicism for many years. St Henri still provides good VFM & occasionally a supermarket releases a a parcel of Bin xx at bargain basement prices.

[andrewS4]

Just thought, 'elegant' may also mean 'subtle' in which case... ain't for me

An old TAFE lecturer once told me if you saw the word "elegant" on the label it meant the wine had no stucture and was probably lacking in character.

[Wizz]

Just thought, 'elegant' may also mean 'subtle' in which case... ain't for me

An old TAFE lecturer once told me if you saw the word "elegant" on the label it meant the wine had no stucture and was probably lacking in character.

As subjective as wine is in all its guises - that's just plain incorrect. I hope this TAFE lecturer wasnt saying any of those things in any sort of official capacity.

[Mahmoud Ali]

An old TAFE lecturer once told me if you saw the word "elegant" on the label it meant the wine had no stucture and was probably lacking in character.

What a load of rubbish.

Mahmoud

[Polymer]

Well, to be fair, he is only saying if they say elegant ON THE LABEL.

At the same time..that line of thinking is where Australians went from the if BIG is good, BIGGER is better and HUGE IS BEST and completely lost the plot.