The Auswine Forum

n4sir wrote:

Sean wrote:Ian, I have no problem with Penfolds offering us a magnum of wine to buy their bins. But did they really have to put a retrograde and unhelpful “Claret” label on it?

Why are you asking me? You really should be directing this question to Sparky or someone who works there via her.

On the slightly related topic of us not being able to use the word "Cornish" for those type of pasties anymore (and wow there is a huge export market threatening the EU - NOT), just where is this stuff going to end? Sometime in the future, are we also going to be banned from using Napoletana, Bolognese, or any word in the European language to do with food and drink?

Cheers,
Ian

Once again, I reckon this comes down to personal opinion. My (probably not so humble) opinion is that Penfolds has as much cultural and historical validity to use the term as the French, up to the point that the laws change. It's not as if the term has been pulled out of a dark marketing crevice just to annoy the French - it references the Penfolds brand history and product evolution. I don't read it as focused on sticking it up the French, but celebrating the rich history of Penfolds - but that's me.

But at least now all the Bordeaux producers will finally be able to label their wines as claret and not have to worry about people confusing it with Australian wines from the 70s

Thommo wrote:But at least now all the Bordeaux producers will finally be able to label there wines as claret and not have to worry about people confusing it with Australian wines from the 70s

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Sean wrote:Ian, sorry. I addressed you because you had quoted me. I saw the story about “Cornish” pasties on the ABC news this morning. I thought you were making a link between that and my comment about the “Claret” label.

It sounds ridiculous or even trivial at first, but I guess when it comes to food or wine in the EU it is big money. So protecting “traditional expressions” not just region names is important to them, because there is a lot of money at stake. Maybe it should be important to us too if we are ever to be taken seriously as a wine producing country with real wine regions, etc.

Sorry about my initial reaction - I quoted your bit because it tied in with the range of things that were banned, and was itself the tip of the iceberg of the things they were trying to ban. I remember James Godfrey mentioned that during the negotiations it was a struggle even to be able to use the word "vintage" - things were literally that difficult, and if you checked out the link to Philip White's blog you would have seen "tawny" is also one of the words we can no longer use.

Sean wrote:I suppose to wear their shoes for a bit, how would you feel about some US wine producer making a rich tasting, sweet oaked, 15% alc red and labelling it a “Barossa” shiraz? And justifying that by saying it is just a wine style, not a region being referred to?

Something like this?:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2010/ ... 98800.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 980336.ece

I think it's perfectly understandable the EU should do everything to protect their brand, but my question is just how far can they go before it gets to the point of being absurd? References to places like Barossa, Champagne, Burgundy, etc I think are pretty clear cut, even if it's just to make sure consumers aren't mislead into associating something with a place they really shouldn't. That said, in this country we have some of the worst examples of it, like Fosters/Treasury trademarking the Kalimna, Rothbury and Seaview appellations and reserving them for wines made from who knows where:

http://drinkster.blogspot.com/2009/06/r ... -more.html

When the arguments drift to what are basically wine styles/appearances & processes I begin to find some reasoning rather murky - "Claret", "Sherry" and "Port" traditionally have strong associations with Bordeaux & Oporto which is in my opnion fair enough, and while I hate us having to give up descriptions like "Fino", "Amontillado", "Oloroso", etc, there's a natural connection with the country of origin's language to provide some justification.

However, when the arguments drift to what I feel are broader terms, like the words "tawny", "vintage" and the names of grape varieties, I can't help wondering just how much of this is genuine protection of the EU's "traditional expressions", and how much is neutering their international competition because of their own insecurities and petty jealousy? That's why the banning of the word "Cornish" in relation to pasties made here to me seems heavy handed to say the least.

So what's the next thing the EU will get around to trying to ban the use of? Can they all of a sudden decide that we can't call our barrels "Hogsheads" & "Barriques" anymore because they figure it will disadvantage what we can say in our wine descriptions/technical data? Will "Bolognese" & "Napoletana" one day have to be replaced with "a sauce of primarily mince & tomato" and "a sauce of tomato, basil and garlic"? Will they ban us from using the names "Brie" and "Camembert" to describe those cheeses made here, to be replaced by a full technical description of every ingredient they're made up of?

As far as Penfolds using "Claret" for this promotional magnum, to be honest I don't really have a problem with it. I can see where it can either be viewed as a clever marketing exercise (the issue you mentioned about small retailer's pricing versus the big grocers is nothing new, it's been the case for a number of years now and they've been complaining about it - if anything this exclusive offer gives them a chance to get some sales from people chasing the magnums and deciding it's worth the extra) or a romantic tribute to the old bottles while there's still time to use the word. Personally though, I rather like the idea that it's a final "screw you" directed at the Europeans after the hell they've given us in those negotiations, even if it's not the case.

Cheers,
Ian

Hell Sean,

If we all agreed with each other all the time we'd die of boredom. I don't even agree with myself most of the time!

They are very logical valid points you make and make absolutely no difference to me because my response to the label is on an emotional level layered with my relationship to the brand and the people. On one hand I appreciate the murky greyness of label integrity and asset protection. On the other, every time I look at the label it reminds me of that perfect half pint 1903 Auldana Claret at the Brisbane clinic that was such a thing of beauty I teared up just looking at it. See what I mean about not even agreeing with myself?

However, as you rightly mentioned a few posts back, the Claret should not detract from the Bins themselves. I'm with Terence on the Bin 138 and 407 being the picks of this year although I can't possibly agree with him about not getting excited Tasting note

By the way, if you ever ring in with a stuffed bottle and don't ask to speak to me personally I'll be mortally offended.

Remind me again... We're talking about a bottle of wine? Let's not sweat the small stuff eh?

I personally rather like the look and approach behind this bottle, marketing gimmick or no. I won't bother chasing it but looks like a fun bottle to have and most importantly, drink.

the promotion ended on 1 May 2011. Have seen it listed for sale at some bottle shops in SYdney CBD.

the Red Bottle has it for sale at 300 dollars! greedy!

the other shop at Clarence st asks for 120 dollars.

Gelen wrote:the promotion ended on 1 May 2011. Have seen it listed for sale at some bottle shops in SYdney CBD.

the Red Bottle has it for sale at 300 dollars! greedy!

the other shop at Clarence st asks for 120 dollars.

So, if it is available for $100, it may seem reasonable value?

reschsmooth wrote:

Gelen wrote:the promotion ended on 1 May 2011. Have seen it listed for sale at some bottle shops in SYdney CBD.

the Red Bottle has it for sale at 300 dollars! greedy!

the other shop at Clarence st asks for 120 dollars.

So, if it is available for $100, it may seem reasonable value?

The first ones I have seen at auction go under the hammer at Langtons next week - expected bid range $95-120.

I guess we're going to find out what they're really worth soon enough.

Cheers,
Ian

n4sir wrote:

reschsmooth wrote:

Gelen wrote:the promotion ended on 1 May 2011. Have seen it listed for sale at some bottle shops in SYdney CBD.

the Red Bottle has it for sale at 300 dollars! greedy!

the other shop at Clarence st asks for 120 dollars.

So, if it is available for $100, it may seem reasonable value?

The first ones I have seen at auction go under the hammer at Langtons next week - expected bid range $95-120.

I guess we're going to find out what they're really worth soon enough.

Final bids were $131 & $126 (for one listed with minor capsule damage) - add on the 15% commission & someone's forked out over $150.

Cheers,
Ian

A month or so back I noticed the Coonawarra Claret magnums for sale in the duty free shop in Brisbane Airport for the princely sum of $479!

Has anyone seen them commercially released elsewhere?

Thommo wrote:A month or so back I noticed the Coonawarra Claret magnums for sale in the duty free shop in Brisbane Airport for the princely sum of $479!

Has anyone seen them commercially released elsewhere?

I think the person who conjured up that price tag must be delusional or have no idea.

cuttlefish wrote:

Thommo wrote:A month or so back I noticed the Coonawarra Claret magnums for sale in the duty free shop in Brisbane Airport for the princely sum of $479!

Has anyone seen them commercially released elsewhere?

I think the person who conjured up that price tag must be delusional or have no idea.

He probably lives in an ivory tower, or a castle, as "He must be dreaming......................"

Penfolds list the wine on their website now, with a note that it is only available at travel retail stores

I would guess that a retailer like First Duty-Free sets their prices based largely on the wholesale rather than by opportunistic gouging, and that the retail price they offer it for is something they have worked out already with Penfolds. Which all makes me wonder what Penfolds' wholesale price for the wine is.

Penfolds price gouging, again? Surely not.

Mark Carrington wrote:Penfolds price gouging, again? Surely not.

Care factor? Only if you're silly enough to pay for the dubious qpr....