The Auswine Forum

28 today Mahmoud, more of the same over the weekend,

Hi Mahmoud
The day time temps are about 28 deg C. The wine is in an industrial sized cold room which is on the ground floor of a 2 story building. The temps may not get that high. I thought about 24 C or so (half way between high and low temps for the day).
Deb, Michael etc,
I went down there tonight at about 6pm. The streets were closed but We were able to wade through the water at knee height and get to the door. Looking in through the window it appears the water came to about 6 feet above the loading dock. If you have your wine in the high, hard to reach lockers then your wine could be dry but most likely just the bottom cases got wet. If you have the lower ones then it all got very wet.
You could see footprints in the 3 inches of mud around the shops etc. However there were none at Kennards, so they have not been there to assess the mess/clean up. However in all fairness I had to walk through the flood waters to get there. I'd say tomorrow they would be able to get there.
So that is where it is at...

Hi all

Hope you fared okay despite having copped a thrashing with the water in your respective cellars.

Daz is right - even if the wine went under, it should be fine. As I outlined in a previous post - I think it was called "Wet Wine" - you just dry them off, and get as much water out from under the cap seals (whether stelvin or cork / diam, doesn't matter) to prevent bacterial and fungal growth, then dry them before storing together in a tight space (where air-flow will be restricted).

If in any doubt, call me and I'll check the bottles myself. I've done wine Quality Assurance since 2003 and never charged a dime for it. And no, it doesn't mean I drink the wine to check it... although... haha!

My contact details are on my website, if needed. See my profile. Best wishes, Dan.

My thoughts and best wishes go out to all of you. I grew up in Oxley in the 1950s and 60s living on Oxley Road just down from the Oxley Hotel. Remember houses being evacuated near Oxley Creek and water piling up in our front yard. Our old house was completely submerged during the 1974 flood but the family had left Queensland by then. I'd imagine it's all repeated itself and I feel for everyone affected.

Cheers, Peter

Ive just drive through Oxley to get a Gerni from my sister. people and traffic everywhere. And the whole place is slick with mud.

On our way to Fig Tree Pocket this afternoon to help another elderly lady from our church with no family.

Sounds ugly Wizz. All the best.

Peter Schlesinger wrote:Sounds ugly Wizz. All the best.

It is not pretty at all. The TV shows it as being pretty bad but being there with the extra dimensions of smell, and peripheral vision just paints a picture of utter devastation.
I've been helping my wife's uncle and grandmother clean out their house at Jindalee. Lucky for them it was only the bottom floor. There is nothing left. Everything had an inch of mud on it and the smell-I will never forget.
Not knowing where his house is or how much of it went under water - I really feel for Michael. The scene at Jindalee was not pretty and I understand Chelmer is apocalyptic.
Today we had about 15 'randoms' just turn up and offer assistance. They were armed with brooms, generators and high pressure hoses. Neighbours, people from the other side of town. Some were like ghosts. Appearing for a few hours and then disappearing only to reappear next door on the end of another hose or broom. People just arrived with food. Pies and Anzac biscuits that were backed that morning by little old ladies to feed the troops. The generosity was unbelievable.
Today made me very proud to be a citizen of Brisbane.

Rens

I remember cleaning out the fruit/vegetable markets in Ipswich after the 74 floods and the smell is one you never forget. I also remember the sense of community and feelings of being one with your neighbours after that flood and in some ways envy you the experience you're having helping your uncle.

Possessions are funny really - easy to get attached to but not really necessary (if you don't believe me, backpack around the world for a year or 2 and then come back to your belongings and see how ambivalent you feel towards them) - although I'm not sure whether I'd still feel this way after having a horde of children and I'm not sure about the feelings of loss after losing something irreplaceable....

I don't think you'll be selling any of wine, but I do think you'll be OK drinking it although you may not know what you're drinking! You'll need to be very careful labelling them as they lose their labels.

Thinking of you and Kellee (and Michael too) and hoping for the best

Cheers

Luke

rens wrote:

Peter Schlesinger wrote:Sounds ugly Wizz. All the best.

It is not pretty at all. The TV shows it as being pretty bad but being there with the extra dimensions of smell, and peripheral vision just paints a picture of utter devastation.
I've been helping my wife's uncle and grandmother clean out their house at Jindalee. Lucky for them it was only the bottom floor. There is nothing left. Everything had an inch of mud on it and the smell-I will never forget.
Not knowing where his house is or how much of it went under water - I really feel for Michael. The scene at Jindalee was not pretty and I understand Chelmer is apocalyptic.
Today we had about 15 'randoms' just turn up and offer assistance. They were armed with brooms, generators and high pressure hoses. Neighbours, people from the other side of town. Some were like ghosts. Appearing for a few hours and then disappearing only to reappear next door on the end of another hose or broom. People just arrived with food. Pies and Anzac biscuits that were backed that morning by little old ladies to feed the troops. The generosity was unbelievable.
Today made me very proud to be a citizen of Brisbane.

That's pretty much what we saw yesterday in Oxley. Carnage is the right word for whats happened. A friends daughter is watching twitter and facebook, and Chelmer comes up as needing more help.

I've had an update from Kennards today. They are in the process of cleaning up and think it will be completed by tomorrow afternoon. When it is clean and safe they will phone owners and book them in to come and collect their wine. Apparently if you turn up outside your time you will not be allowed in (fair enough you do not want everyone there at once). So I figure that from Wednesday morning people will be getting in and taking their wine home. I'll let people know if I hear anymore.
I went there again on Sunday only to be refused entry by the security guard. Now I'm worried about the heat...

Hi Rens,

Did they contact you directly? I've still had no contact from Kennards other than reading their website. And I'm gathering from your post that they are in no condition to continue to house the wine, is that correct?

Those wine lovers, who are storing their wine collection at Kennard’s in Milton, have good reason to find the communication from Managing Director Sam Kennard very inadequate.

In the meantime, Kennard is hammering free general storage for 6 months, but not a word about wine storage.

Has Sam Kennard offered :

*a rough estimate regarding time it will take to get the Milton wine storage operational?
*suggestions regarding alternative wine storage?
*will Kennard stop offering wine storage in Milton?

Just a few questions.

In the meantime, with no cooling provided, your wine is cooking in the Kennards Milton wine storage facility.

As of Monday afternoon there appear to be no real valid reason why customers should not be able to collect their wine now in order to move the collection to alternative 'high and dry' storage facilities elsewhere.

Ironic, is it not, that wine storage in Milton used to be on one of the upper floors, before a bright spark decided that it was better on the ground floor.

PS.
The Kennards are so confused by it all that he cannot even get the day or date right !
From the MD’s e-mail:
>>At this time we believe this team will be completed by the afternoon of Tuesday the 17th of January.<<

Sam, is that Tuesday the 18th January or is it Monday the 17th January?

To this point I have been reasonably happy with Kennards response. They have had regular email updates and I understand that the cleaning will take time. However I think that the amount of time taken has been a little excessive considering there was no one onsite on Sunday morning cleaning when the I could easily access Black Street. There was however a security guard keeping an eye on my wine.
If you're not getting any communications from Kennards I suggest giving them a call and updating your details with them and then you will get all the emails etc. Fingers crossed the temperature in there does not get to high. I also hope I'm one of the first that gets to go in and get my stuff out (but that is just me being selfish) .
Deb I don't think they can continue to store the wine. The water came about 6 feet above the loading dock and the electricity is still off and without knowing where the refrigeration electrics are I'd say they were also water logged. Start emptying out the cupboards at home.

I called Kennards again and this time they realised that they misspelled our email address, so this is why we have not been getting any comms. They seem to think they will have the storage up and running again within a week, sounds doubtful to me.

Rens - >>To this point I have been reasonably happy with Kennards response. They have had regular email updates<<
Rens, just as well you said reasonably! = not 100%

I happen to share the opinion of others, I have spoken with on-site in Milton
Sam Kennard’s three (3) e-mails have been inadequate and leave more questions than answers.

A photo is equal to 1,000 words.

Has Sam Kennard take the opportunity to e-mail photos from the Milton facility ?
No he has not !

Has Sam Kennard offered safe transport of your wine to another wine storage facility in Brisbane or Interstate?
No he has not !

Looking at the facility and the high water mark when visiting Milton, there are no valid reasons for not providing supervised customer access to the wine collections, the pharmaceutical drugs, computer records, antique clocks and the many other items stored inside the wine storages facility. (You may be surprised with the non-wine items stored)

Time is of the essence.
With the current high air temperature in Brisbane, your wine is being cooked while Kennards are denying customer access.

It is plainly unacceptable, inadequate customer care and bad management of a crisis.

A few of us from one of our wine groups on the weekend were talking about this issue, and someone mentioned that during the 1974 floods a lot of wine had to be destroyed because of possible contamination due to the water. I think though they were referring to people in business (restaurant/wine trade) - at the other forum they had a link to this article with the following comments:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-dept ... 5989657618

Dave Vino wrote:Should be still drinkable. They only issue will be the foils may need to be removed on corked bottles so ensure no mould growth can impact on it.

Labels will most likely be ruined.

I saw on the news that some of the hotels have been ordered to destroy their stock due to potential bacterial issues on the bottles/corks.

I get the feeling the major threat will be the heat while the power is still out - I still have vague recollections of some of the topics brought up by Hurricane Katrina (found them):

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4143&p=28710
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4891

Anyway, good luck guys. I've been lucky that the people I know in Brisbane/Gooda have been high and dry though this experience, and hope things turn out okay for everyone else. For those of you with insurance at Kennards, do you know if your collections are covered for flood damage?

Cheers,
Ian

For those of you with insurance at Kennards, do you know if your collections are covered for flood damage?

No, which is the one thing that is making me feel better about not insuring it.

Hi Ian
Of the things not included, item number 12 is flood.
The temperature does worry me but it would be a bit cooler inside with all the insulation of the cellar and the fact it is on the ground floor of the building. Fingers crossed.

Gorm, have you expressed your concerns to Kennards directly? and what was their response?

"Re: NWR: Brisbane Floods
by daz » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:42 pm

Insurance companies are notorious for their avoidance of liability for coverage of flood damage, a well known fact. Hope you and family stay safe over the next few days at least. Another factor to consider is the loss of electricity.......?

daz"

It seems Kennards facility is forever trashed as far as climate-controlled wine storage is concerned. Hope those who have wines there are able to salvage their wines but imagine they'll be on the bench for early drinking as are the dozen or two mostly mid range wines (e.g. Turkey Flat shiraz 2002, Voyager Estate cabernet 2006, Bullers Calliope Shiraz 2004) that are sitting in the Prima 72 bottle wine cooler that died on the weekend. Oh well, I'm sure I'll enjoy them but would have liked more age behind them.

Commiserations

daz

hi guys,

my question is: what are we actually going to have to do with the wine if we want to retain any hope of keeping it for another few years?

i was kinda thinking i would just leave it there till the electricity comes back on but i guess we r going to have to take it all out, replace boxes, relabel bottles that have lost theirs... what other precautions could we take to preserve our precious hoard? i personally am not going to get too worried about the 'health concerns' discussed in the australian article linked above. i'll take my chances!

i really wanna get in there and see what happened

advice would be appreciated.

tim

I'm now getting frustrated. There was no update last night and no phone call advising me of when I can go and get my wine out. On top of that it was 35 C yesterday and today is going to be another hot one. Come on Kennards let me in.

Alas my wine was also at Kennards-it was at the very top of the cellar there-along with my prized vinyl lp's.
Even if the water had got that high, the heat will be doing far more damage now. The wine would have been perfectly drinkable on Monday, but after yesterday's (and todays) heat, we are looking at worthless wine.
I was actually at Kennards two weeks ago-and another guy showed me his cellar-filled with magnums of Krug/Dom Perignon/Pol Winston going back 20 years.
Hope he got it out.
I had twenty cartons, mainly burgundy and bordeaux.
But when you see others who have lost their homes it puts it in perspective.

Tannin. The Kennards twitter page said the water went into the top storage units by 6 cm.

Damn-just enough to wreck the vinyl!
majority of wine would have been untouched though.

I've just placed a call to the Insurance people to find out if not letting me in to get my stuff and the wine cooking is covered. I await their return phone call.

EDIT:
Just spoke to Ben who confirmed that flood is not covered. We knew that. He has to check with someone else (probably a claims person) to see if cooking is covered. He will get back to me. Hopefully by tomorrow.

Here is the latest:
'As you are aware of the current flooding that took place at our Milton Wine Cellars. We are currently going through a process of slowly letting our customers into salvage and clean up their wines. Our priority is peoples safety and saving wine. Because of this we will be calling through groups of 10 people at a time. We will call you when we are ready for you to visit Milton.
On the day we have people to assist you in your clean up and also have clean boxes and a clean up station. Please wear old clothes and shoes that have good grip and are enclosed as the floors are extremely slippery.'

If people get in before me could they post what the temperature is like and their impressions. I bet a few people will be very interested.

Yep, I have 60 cases in there as well and am losing faith daily.

The water went 5cm into the top storage units so everything in the bottom two units will be affected. Plus of course they are all cooking. I think if we had got them out on Monday they would have been okay as the research I have been doing tends to point to the 24/25 degree mark as to when the chemical reactions start to become problematic.

I have no idea what is taking so long to clean and the information has coming out has been inadequate. I went to site on Monday and the girl there told me they would have to move us out as the facility was buckling. Now it seems they are going to try to continue so I wonder if what they are doing really is returning the site to a visual state that will stop everyone from leaving.

Insurance doens't cover flooding but this is starting to smell more like a legal situation if anything as far as recourse is concerned.

Trouble is there is no real way of knowing if the screw capped wine is ruined without drinking it and it is the good stuff that needs the cellaring time that costs the most that you really want to know is okay. So 6 years and $30k down the drain? or drunk in a hurry!

miltonsufferer wrote: I think if we had got them out on Monday they would have been okay as the research I have been doing tends to point to the 24/25 degree mark as to when the chemical reactions start to become problematic.

Yes I was thinking this on my way home today. They should have let us in on Monday... Hell I was there on Sunday at about 8am with new cardboard ready to get in and move it to better storage facilities. Only the security guard there stopped me from going in.

miltonsufferer wrote:I have no idea what is taking so long to clean and the information has coming out has been inadequate.

I'm getting to that point now too

miltonsufferer wrote: I wonder if what they are doing really is returning the site to a visual state that will stop everyone from leaving.

That had crossed my mind. I'm still taking my stuff else where. National storage wants my business and I'm going to give it to them.

miltonsufferer wrote:Insurance doens't cover flooding but this is starting to smell more like a legal situation if anything as far as recourse is concerned.

I don't think the flood is the issue. It is the heat.

I would think there would be more than one lawyer with wine there!

A couple of issues come to mind:

Did they warn us the place was flood prone prior to taking our business?
Why did they move the cellar to the ground floor?
Why do they not have generators in Brisbane - if your business runs on the premise that you are providing wine storage at 14% would you not have a contingency plan that involved local generators?
You can't hide behind offering insurance as a panacea to all possible eventualities.
Why don't they seem to understand their own business (ie the importance of temperature - not one of the communications has addressed this)
There may be more to consider but these are some thoughts going around my head as I try to work out what to do with 750 bottles of potentially cooked wine...

miltonsufferer wrote:Why don't they seem to understand their own business (ie the importance of temperature - not one of the communications has addressed this)

Their website trumpets the fact temperature is important in storing wine. They use it as the cornerstone of their marketing. Obviously the marketing guru who wrote it knows shame kennards management don't.
I'm becoming more and more upset by the whole thing.