The Auswine Forum

Remember, this a mass produced wine so screwcap aside there could be differences between bottles.

I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

griff wrote:For me the 2006 was a very good Black label (with 2004 and then 2005 behind in that order) and look forward to the 2008. The 2008 Shiraz is back in business (best since 1998 for mine) and I hope the 2008 Cabernet is at a similar level.

Agreed, the 2008 Shiraz is an unbelievably good value wine at the discounted prices around lately. Picked up a six pack as the next few weeks quaffer. It is a definite winner.

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

Hmmm, agree with some of this mate, but I must admit, I vehemently disagree with the last point. Yes, I mainly buy wine from the "good" vintages, more specifically, the wines I like on a tasting or a single bottle buy and try, I will seek out in greater quantities to cellar. However, to buy and cellar a wine that is shite to your tastes, and to cellar it in quantity just because you support "vintage variation" is truly absurd. Either you're so loaded it doesn't matter, or well, there's no cure for the alternative...

Probably less than 2c, but hey...

Monghead.

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

Could you PM me your credit card details so I can participate in your philosophy?

cheers

Carl

I'm not convinced that highly acclaimed vintages are the only ones to buy. For example, I remember GW, Halliday, some on the fora lauding Turkey Flat Cabernet Sauvignon 2002. Never tried that vintage but did pick up a few bottles of the 2003 at a fairly good price and have thoroughly enjoyed two of those. The last is being left for few more years or as long as I can resist temptation. Halliday gave the 02 (95pts) a two years longer drinking window (2017) he rated the 03 96pts with the comment "exceptional vintage for Barossa Cabernet" but was concerned about the cork seal.

Two points:

1. Reliance on general vintage reputation is folly even for particular regions, let alone particular varieties

2. The potential for a wine to age over the long term is not the sole determinant of its quality.

I drank shitloads of the BL 01 and 03 because I enjoyed drinking it when I did.

Go figure.

daz

daz wrote:I drank shitloads of the BL 01 and 03 because I enjoyed drinking it when I did.

Go figure.

daz

Nothing to figure at all; great philosophy on wine Daz!

Cheers

Michael

Daz, if you are saying that vintage reports are of less benefit than other people's tasting notes on a particular wine then I would agree. Of course the best of all is tasting the wine yourself. Multiple times on multiple occasions

cheers

Carl

[quote="griff"]Daz, if you are saying that vintage reports are of less benefit than other people's tasting notes on a particular wine then I would agree. Of course the best of all is tasting the wine yourself. Multiple times on multiple occasions

cheers

Carl[/quote]

Exactly what I'm doing with the ring.bolt cab 07 right now Carl, very good wine at an agreeable price. I can't help but wonder whether the supermarket chains would drop the price by $0.05 each time they were approached with a cheaper price from the other Bouncing between them 20 times a day for a further $1 off the already discounted price would result in 10 dozen of a wine that would, regardless of how much it's enjoyed, become as toxic as fruit bat kack

The r.b 07 doesn't have the oomph of the TF 03 but, the price differential?

Cheers

daz

daz wrote: For example, I remember GW, Halliday, some on the fora lauding Turkey Flat Cabernet Sauvignon 2002. Never tried that vintage but did pick up a few bottles of the 2003 at a fairly goo..

Not me. Not had 02 Turkey Flat Cab (or Shiraz for that matter).
GW

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

And I thought I was all over the shop I'll make sure you can buy some of my 2012 Chapel Hill Chambourcin from Brisbane. It should fit your "equal opportunity" appreciation of wine philosophy perfectly.

Oh, would you like to see expensive flagship wines made every vintage, regardless of notions of quality? No doubt you'd buy them too.

[quote="Gary W"][quote="daz"] For example, I remember GW, Halliday, some on the fora lauding Turkey Flat Cabernet Sauvignon 2002. Never tried that vintage but did pick up a few bottles of the 2003 at a fairly goo..[/quote]

Not me. Not had 02 Turkey Flat Cab (or Shiraz for that matter).
GW[/quote]

Apologies Gary. I do remember it being lauded just after it was released, thought you were a proponent of it. WRONG!

Cheers

daz

Thought I should try this as I am the ultimate authority on all wine matters (for myself).

2007 Wynns Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon. 14%. SC. $19.99.
After 30 mins in the decanter.
Good colour - touch of brighter red at the edge. Reticent nose of blackcurrant - not a lot of "green" here, but not a lot of nose full stop. Enjoyable medium-bodied palate of blackberry and cassis. Again no green streak (which I expect from some younger cabernets). Good balance and support from some lively acid and firm tannin. Very Good, but I have a concern about the shy nose.

24 hours later (and be warned, in a much more lyrical mood )
This wine is totally transformed. The nose still underplays the palate. Strong, full-bodied, driven by fruit and tannin in unison. Long and strong this wine is a credit to its pedigree. While not a legend, this wine a hero will be!

So, after checking the lot number was the same - L9160, I placed a $120 bet today that in 8-10 years time this will be a Very, Very Good, if not Excellent, wine. Only time will tell.

Cheers

Michael

That sounds exactly like the one I tasted. Either that or we are more physiologically similar to each other than to Attila and Griff.
GW

Hmmm, gonna have to try this one again. Will go get a bottle soon.

Monghead.

Dear me, I just re-read this thread and saw that I wrote the 2007 Wynns Black label was "not good not bad". Well that could be misconstrued. I'll wipe the egg off my face & state that it is certainly a good wine, but that what I meant to say is that it didn't rock my world (or should that be my boat? ) and that I shan't be cellaring it. Anyway, I know someone who is cellaring it so I will no doubt get the opportunity to wipe the egg off my face again in about 10 years...

Today's Good Living section of the Sydney Morning Herald:

Huan Hook rates this (2007 Wynn's Black Label Cab Sauv) quite highly.

"A hardy perennial in top form: Wynns cabernet deserves to be in everyone's cellar. Rich, ripe cassis nose, a hint of black olive, oak superbly harmonised: no sign of green or overripe fruit. Medium-full bodied with depth and density. The essence of cabernet. It has a big future. Now to 25 years. 95/100"

i suppose different strokes for different folks.

No. It can't be that. These people are professional tasters and they don't miss 'green', or rarely. And they don't go 95 points without some consideration and conviction. Either there is huge bottle variation or......
GW

Bought a second bottle to try. Exactly like the first. Very good wine. 92 or 93 pointy sort of wine. Not green.
GW

Gary might be right...assuming it's not a shocker as indicated by me but it is NOT a 95 points wine either as indicated by Huon.
In my view there is no way that his assessment is correct (is he becoming soft as Halliday?) and my score of 88 points is probably too low but that makes Gary's midway judgement perfect.
Lot's of different opinions on this black label for sure.

jeremy wrote:Dear me, I just re-read this thread and saw that I wrote the 2007 Wynns Black label was "not good not bad". Well that could be misconstrued. I'll wipe the egg off my face & state that it is certainly a good wine, but that what I meant to say is that it didn't rock my world (or should that be my boat? ) and that I shan't be cellaring it. Anyway, I know someone who is cellaring it so I will no doubt get the opportunity to wipe the egg off my face again in about 10 years...

Good to see you are self-correcting so that I don't have to rock your boat .

What it definitely should not be is "float your world".

Could be "didn't rock my cot".

orpheus wrote:

jeremy wrote:Dear me, I just re-read this thread and saw that I wrote the 2007 Wynns Black label was "not good not bad". Well that could be misconstrued. I'll wipe the egg off my face & state that it is certainly a good wine, but that what I meant to say is that it didn't rock my world (or should that be my boat? ) and that I shan't be cellaring it. Anyway, I know someone who is cellaring it so I will no doubt get the opportunity to wipe the egg off my face again in about 10 years...

Good to see you are self-correcting so that I don't have to rock your boat .

What it definitely should not be is "float your world".

Could be "didn't rock my cot".

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

I'm with you amigo!

Vintage variation is inevitable and one of the beautiful things about wine. These other philistines who have poked fun are ignoring the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage. A wine from a "lesser" year may not last as long, may not have as much fruit or whatever, but it can still be a great wine in its own right. Following the wines of my favourite producers through the vintages is a rewarding journey.

Maximus wrote:

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

I'm with you amigo!

Vintage variation is inevitable and one of the beautiful things about wine. These other philistines who have poked fun are ignoring the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage. A wine from a "lesser" year may not last as long, may not have as much fruit or whatever, but it can still be a great wine in its own right. Following the wines of my favourite producers through the vintages is a rewarding journey.

Philistines?! It's just not that simple. Your language and ideas are as big a joke as your avatar.

And back on topic.

Bought a bottle to try last night. Somewhat limpid colour. Nice, perfumed nose similar to last time but I still get leafiness and stalk green notes. The palate has a lot more chocolate than last time but still quite disjointed with acid poking out. Nice cedary oak. Went much better with food. Tasted less green and even less lean than last time and so I should rate upwards. A good wine but not my style. I still prefer the last three vintages and hopefully the 2008. Batch L9161 for the trainspotters.

Glad I tried a full bottle (well half a bottle with the other half tonight). Opened up better than the last two times but still not a further buy.

cheers

Carl

jeremy wrote:

Maximus wrote:

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

I'm with you amigo!

Vintage variation is inevitable and one of the beautiful things about wine. These other philistines who have poked fun are ignoring the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage. A wine from a "lesser" year may not last as long, may not have as much fruit or whatever, but it can still be a great wine in its own right. Following the wines of my favourite producers through the vintages is a rewarding journey.

Philistines?! It's just not that simple. Your language and ideas are as big a joke as your avatar.

I don't find these idea's a joke

DaveB wrote:
I don't find these idea's a joke

No. Nor do I. I'm a bit of a light and shade man myself, so long as it's not toooo shady
GW

Maximus wrote:

uncorked wrote:I've got a good idea - why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year -That way the poor consumers will never have to "suffer" wine that is different or reflects the season.

It's very easy to criticise winemakers but hey, remember that they are the ones taking the risks each and every year (along with the grape growers!) Wine begins it's life in the vineyards, which are at the mercy of the gods..

If you have a problem with vintage variation and only buy wine from the "good" vintages, you're missing the point and perhaps you should stick to something safer like beer or Coke (not sugar free -live on the limit!).

Cheers!

I'm with you amigo!

Vintage variation is inevitable and one of the beautiful things about wine. These other philistines who have poked fun are ignoring the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage. A wine from a "lesser" year may not last as long, may not have as much fruit or whatever, but it can still be a great wine in its own right. Following the wines of my favourite producers through the vintages is a rewarding journey.

Ok, in brief...

- enjoying vintage variation does not mean that one must slavishly sink poorer qulity bottles that are a result of vintage variation.

- calling people who choose to buy wine from better vintages "philistines" who should stick to drinking coke IS a joke.

- yes, a wine from a poor vintage can still be a great wine in it's own right. In fact in stands out BECAUSE of the poorer quality of other wines IN THAT VINTAGE. Uncorked and Maximus have muddled their arguments here.

- It's well and good to follow a wine though vintages for the purposes of a vertical. I like to do it myself. It doesn't mean I have to enjoy every wine in the vertical though. It is a conceptual excercise as much as one that is about enjoyment.

- "It's easy to criticise winemakers"... No it's not. I don't like doing it. I prefer to critique wine. It's not pesonal. Bringing wine makers into the equation makes it personal. You've shot yourself in the foot again.

- As for ignoring "the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage", that is the proper realm to discuss vintage as it intersects with style. Bissel's style did not suit the 2007 vintage, though it has worked a treat in the past.

- "why don't they make wine in one big factory to an homogonised recipie that doesn't dare change from year to year"- well one could argue that those who were less than successful in Coonawarra did just that.

FIN

jeremy wrote:- As for ignoring "the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage", that is the proper realm to discuss vintage as it intersects with style. Bissel's style did not suit the 2007 vintage, though it has worked a treat in the past.

Well in 2007 Bissel's style for his Cabernet resulted in -
Mattinson Big Red Wine Book - 95 pt
Halliday - 95 pts
Oliver -95 pts
Stelzer-Eye - 94 pts.

So I'd argue that some people think it worked all right..
GW

Gary W wrote:

jeremy wrote:- As for ignoring "the fact that a great winemaker (and/or grapegrower, as the case may be) will still make great wine despite the vintage", that is the proper realm to discuss vintage as it intersects with style. Bissel's style did not suit the 2007 vintage, though it has worked a treat in the past.

Well in 2007 Bissel's style for his Cabernet resulted in -
Mattinson Big Red Wine Book - 95 pt
Halliday - 95 pts
Oliver -95 pts
Stelzer-Eye - 94 pts.

So I'd argue that some people think it worked all right..
GW

Fair enough too As always, it's is just my opinion.