Sin... make that Sunday.....

[rednut]

1997 Maglieri Shark Block Shiraz

Dug this out of the back of my wine fridge. Not even climbing the cork and still full of life and body.
Deep purple clour, clinging to the glass but definately ready to drink. Lovely.

[griff]

The PEnfolds Bin 707;

Rooman and MOnghead, your answers are more articulate than the answer I would have come up with myself!

That is what I was driving at. It will certainly be very long-lived. I had the same feeling about the 1990 Grange when I tasted it at 60 Darling Street at an extraordinary tasting many years ago (probably back in about 1996?).

Incredibly impressive wines, the kind you would dream up in a test-tube, but lacking anything that speaks of the earth it comes from.

The direct contrast at that tasting were the two Lindemans Hunter River burgundies; 1983 and 1987, both drinking absolutely magnificently at that time, smelling of eucalypt and bird poo, absolutely full of character and sense of place.

Five or so years later, I bought the 1987, and it was a shadow of its earlier self.

I have to admit to still being confused here.

Monghead and Rooman are suggesting that you are referring to the wine being still primary with no development i.e. longevity.

You agree with this but then you say "Incredibly impressive wines, the kind you would dream up in a test-tube, but lacking anything that speaks of the earth it comes from."

This last comment strikes me as a comment on regionality or terroir then a comment on longevity.

So are you talking about longevity or terroir here?

cheers

Carl

[cuttlefish]

This weekend we went to a Barossa themed tasting and tasted the following:

Bracket 1

Kaesler Stonehorse 2005
Cork. 15.5% alc. Showed some sulphurous aroma at first, and faint mint. Improved markedly over 30 minutes in the glass. Very fine tannins and fine berry intensity. Some heat. 14/20

Kalleske Pirathon 2005
Cork. 15% alc. Coconutty American oak influence on the nose. Cedar. Mouthcoating flavour. Silky. Long palate. 17/20

Murray Street Greennock Shiraz 2005
Cork. 14%alc. Aromas of soy, cow poo, and overall more savoury than the other wines in this bracket. The palate is nice, but simple. Long and intense. The tannins a little weightier, but kept the flavour going. 16/20

Rockford Basket Pressed Shiraz 2005
Cor. 14.5 alc. Opened slowly to show sweet smoky oak influence. Long beautifully weighted palate. A little spirity, becoming dry. Showing development. 15/20

My overall impression of this and ensuing brackets was how very silky and approachable they were. Barossa is never my first pick out of the cellar, as I assume they'll be too big, but these wines are very approachable right now.

Bracket 2

St Hallet Old Block Shiraz 2004
Cork. 14.5% alc. Savoury and toasty oak on the nose, and a little volatility. A rich, sweet fruit palate, but the alcohol shows here. Has "sizzle". Long palate. 14/20

Torbreck "The Strui" Shiraz 2004
Cork. 14.5% alc. Faint iodine, and burnt coffee aromas, and licorice. Dry palate, with firm tannins. Long and rich, and quite warm. 14/20

Turkey Flat Shiraz 2004
Cork. 15% alc. Very tightly closed wine. Finally showed a little pine/mint. The palate is rich with firm, fine dry tannins. Seemed a little commercial to me. A little ho-hum. 14/20

Rockford Basket Pressed Shiraz 2004
Cork. 14.5% alc. Clean and savoury nose. Needing to open up. Showing oxidisation on the palate. Fine tannins, and a long, fine dry palate. The most developed wine in this bracket, but I'm starting to recognise this could be the house style for Rockford. 13/20

Bracket 3

Charles Melton Shiraz 2002
Cork. 14.5% alc. Fine and deep toasty oak. Lovely tasty rich fruit here. Fine dry tannins. Faintly madeirised. 13/20

Gibson SHiraz 2002
Screwcap. 14.5% alc. Sweeter subtle coconutty oak here. Silky palate at first, but building power. Grainier tannins but they carry the flavour. Faint cooked or riper fruit characters showing here, also. 15/20

Kalleske Laughing Jack Shiraz 2002
Cork. 14.5% alc. Closed nose Smells a little green. Warm and short palate. 12/20

Rockford Basket Pressed Shiraz 2002
Cork. 15% alc. Corked.

Bracket 4

Saltram No.1 Shiraz 1998
Cork.14.5% alc. Lanolin/leather aromas at first, but blueberry appearing after a time. The palate fine and powerful. A little warm, but fine lasting tannins. Showing development. 15/20

Peter Lehmann Eight Songs Shiraz 1998
Cork. 14% alc. Aromas of soy and chinese spice. Beautifully weighted and balanced palate. Fine, dry lasting tannins. 15/20

The Willows Shiraz 1998
Cork. 14.5 alc. Again showing soy, and a light toasty oak influence, but overall not really opening up. Rich, fine dry, and warm palate. Opening up... 14/20

Rockford Basket Pressed Shiraz 1998
Cork. 14.5% alc. Savoury and rustic nose showing developed characters. Toast and poo, and faint sweet fruit, but overall a savoury wine. Silky entry, and a long a very well balanced palate. Fine lasting tannins. An ethereal wine, loaded with x-factor. 18/20

A couple of extras at the end of the tasting:

Elderton Command Shiraz 2002
Screwcap. 14.5% alc. Faint charry oak and coconut, and a suggestion of soy. A rich front palate, but finely balanced, and textured and very long overall. It's a little warm, and there's still some greenness to the tannins. Very smart wine with a good future, no doubt. 18/20

Rockford Basket Pressed Shiraz 1999
Cork. 14.5% alc. Faintly soapy aroma, at first, and no initial oak aromas. Showing a little madeirisation, which falls in line with what appears to be the house style. A mouthfilling medium weight palate, beautifully balanced with fine dry tannins and good length. 14/20. Would score higher if it'd open up a little.

[bacchaebabe]

Penfolds Bin 707 1996.

Rich in colour. Caramel, vanilla on the nose.

Palate; still tight, closed, very muscular, tannic backbone, hint of mint, liquorice, great length, excellent grip, the tannins corporeal and grainy, very full and substantial mouthfeel.

All about the grape and not about the earth.

I am intrigued by your last comment. Could you elaborate please?

I haven't had this wine for a while but it wowed me a few years ago and I can only imagine that it has improved.

cheers

Carl

Me too.

Roger

Could orpheus mean that the 707 was still very primary, fruit driven, without the secondary earthy (mushroom, truffle, leather, compost, cigar smoke) characteristics that are seen in older wines?

On that note, why is it that some wines develop that aged character within 7-12 years, whilst others still seem extremely primary at 13-15 years?

Is it all about storage conditions?

Monghead.

Carl,

we had this at the offline in Glebe some time ago. I brought two bottles. At the time is was VERY closed. In fact the offline might have been in 06 as I think it was around 10 years of age at the time and I was quite interested to see how it was going. Next look for me will be 2016 I think.

Monghead, in this case, I don't think it has much to do with storage conditions. This is one big wine that needs a lot of time from an exceptional vintage. I personally think the 96 707s will be one hell of a wine when it finally comes of age and it may be very human like in that way. Could be a good 21st wine but might be a better one at 30 even. I bought a dozen of these at release and am pretty happy with that decision. Could be one of the best 707s ever.

[bacchaebabe]

And as for the weekend's wines:
A couple of 98 Hardy's Tintara Cellars Shiraz as tasted during the week. Pretty consistent with my last notes. Lovely savoury style pushing all the right buttons. 93 Went fabulously with a washed rine cheese and some farmhouse pate from the Redfern Farmers Markets at the Carriageworks.

Also an 04 Saltram Mamre Brook Cabernet Not a totally dissimliar flavour profile from the previous wine. A little more blackcurrant but nice savoury pepper finish with great body and balance. Always a good drink 92

[Partagas]

This weekend we went to a Barossa themed tasting and tasted the following:


Rockford Basket Pressed Shiraz 1998
Cork. 14.5% alc. Savoury and rustic nose showing developed characters. Toast and poo, and faint sweet fruit, but overall a savoury wine. Silky entry, and a long a very well balanced palate. Fine lasting tannins. An ethereal wine, loaded with x-factor. 18/20

mmmm toast and poo . Sounds like the regular default breakfast smell (_hit on toast ).

[griff]

Penfolds Bin 707 1996.

Rich in colour. Caramel, vanilla on the nose.

Palate; still tight, closed, very muscular, tannic backbone, hint of mint, liquorice, great length, excellent grip, the tannins corporeal and grainy, very full and substantial mouthfeel.

All about the grape and not about the earth.

I am intrigued by your last comment. Could you elaborate please?

I haven't had this wine for a while but it wowed me a few years ago and I can only imagine that it has improved.

cheers

Carl

Me too.

Roger

Could orpheus mean that the 707 was still very primary, fruit driven, without the secondary earthy (mushroom, truffle, leather, compost, cigar smoke) characteristics that are seen in older wines?

On that note, why is it that some wines develop that aged character within 7-12 years, whilst others still seem extremely primary at 13-15 years?

Is it all about storage conditions?

Monghead.

Carl,

we had this at the offline in Glebe some time ago. I brought two bottles. At the time is was VERY closed. In fact the offline might have been in 06 as I think it was around 10 years of age at the time and I was quite interested to see how it was going. Next look for me will be 2016 I think.

Monghead, in this case, I don't think it has much to do with storage conditions. This is one big wine that needs a lot of time from an exceptional vintage. I personally think the 96 707s will be one hell of a wine when it finally comes of age and it may be very human like in that way. Could be a good 21st wine but might be a better one at 30 even. I bought a dozen of these at release and am pretty happy with that decision. Could be one of the best 707s ever.

HI Kris,

Yeah I agree it wasn't showing everything but it was still awesome-o. Was up there as one of my WOTN (in fact I think it was a group favourite) and there was stiff competition that night

So I agree with longevity, but I am still not sure that is what orpheus is driving at. I think he is talking more about not being able to pick terroir or region. For that matter I can see what he is saying there as well.

cheers

Carl

[orpheus]

OK.

I think that it is closed.

I also think that it lacks a sense of place, of the ground out of which it comes.

I think that there was a suggestion in the attempts to help me out (if I can put it that way) that the incredibly closed and monumental nature of the wine might be masking characteristics that we would normally associate with "terroir".

Hence, I could accept that as part of the explanation.

I think it would be unprofitable for me to offer any further clarification!

Penfolds Bin 707 1996.

Rich in colour. Caramel, vanilla on the nose.

Palate; still tight, closed, very muscular, tannic backbone, hint of mint, liquorice, great length, excellent grip, the tannins corporeal and grainy, very full and substantial mouthfeel.

All about the grape and not about the earth.

I am intrigued by your last comment. Could you elaborate please?

I haven't had this wine for a while but it wowed me a few years ago and I can only imagine that it has improved.

cheers

Carl

Me too.

Roger

Could orpheus mean that the 707 was still very primary, fruit driven, without the secondary earthy (mushroom, truffle, leather, compost, cigar smoke) characteristics that are seen in older wines?

On that note, why is it that some wines develop that aged character within 7-12 years, whilst others still seem extremely primary at 13-15 years?

Is it all about storage conditions?

Monghead.

Carl,

we had this at the offline in Glebe some time ago. I brought two bottles. At the time is was VERY closed. In fact the offline might have been in 06 as I think it was around 10 years of age at the time and I was quite interested to see how it was going. Next look for me will be 2016 I think.

Monghead, in this case, I don't think it has much to do with storage conditions. This is one big wine that needs a lot of time from an exceptional vintage. I personally think the 96 707s will be one hell of a wine when it finally comes of age and it may be very human like in that way. Could be a good 21st wine but might be a better one at 30 even. I bought a dozen of these at release and am pretty happy with that decision. Could be one of the best 707s ever.

HI Kris,

Yeah I agree it wasn't showing everything but it was still awesome-o. Was up there as one of my WOTN (in fact I think it was a group favourite) and there was stiff competition that night

So I agree with longevity, but I am still not sure that is what orpheus is driving at. I think he is talking more about not being able to pick terroir or region. For that matter I can see what he is saying there as well.

cheers

Carl

[orpheus]

1997 Maglieri Shark Block Shiraz

Dug this out of the back of my wine fridge. Not even climbing the cork and still full of life and body.
Deep purple clour, clinging to the glass but definately ready to drink. Lovely.

I last had a bottle of this about 5 years ago. It was an absolute beauty, fantastic wine.

Not surprised to hear that it is still going strong.

[Davo]

Bick wrote

A few impressions using a patented emoticon rating scale:

Rockburn Central Otago Chardonnay 07 -

Villa Maria Ihamatao Single Vineyard Verdelho 08 -
Villa Maria Clifford Bay Reserve Sauvignon Blanc 08 -
Villa Maria Taylor's Pass Single Vineyard Sauvignon Blanc 08 -
Villa Maria Ihamatao Single Vineyard Gewurtztraminer 08 -
Villa Maria Cellar Selection Pinot Noir 07 -
Villa Maria Seddon Single Vineyard Pinot Noir 07 -
Villa Maria Cellar Selection Syrah 07 -
Villa Maria Cellar Selection Syrah/Viognier 06 -

Overall the wines I tasted at villa were pretty good. The Seddon pinot is a super wine imo, its just a bit pricy ($58 ). The Clifford Bay sauv bl. is clearly a decent drink, with lots of character, its just not character that's to my taste (too vegetal and herbaceous). The verdelho is worth a try.
_________________

Love it, the new emoticon scoring system!

But is it accurate to 2 decimal faces .

[monghead]

OK I think bottom line is not to open the '96 Bin 707 for another 5-10 years heh?.....

Monghead.

[JJap]

Pewsey Vale Riesling '04 - 1st of 6 I brought on release and am very glad to have 5 more. Starting to show some secondary characteristics with more depth and complexity but no kero.

Hoddles Creek Pinot '07 - Opened up with a great nose but as it sat in the glass a little acid started to poke out on the back palate. The second night this had come right out to the point where I couldn't finish the bottle. I am a big fan of this label and get a 6 pack of the pinot and chardy each year so this was a little alarming. Hope its just bottle variation.

Mountadam Chardonnay '02 - Opened to appease the good lady who picked the acid in the Hoddles straight away. Excellent aged Eden Valley chardy, drinking superbly right now.

[RedVelvet]

1998 Pommery Vintage Champagne Lovely yellow in colour with vibrant fine bead, lovely citrus and bread type characters on the palate showing some bottle developement this was drinking very nicely indeed.

1990 Howard Park Cabernets Corked

2006 Charles Melton Voices of Angels Shiraz Starting to settle down in the bottle, tight and still very very young, lovely black berry and mulberry fruit, smokey bacon with a good dollop of mocha/coffee oak, quite elegant and should make for very fine drinking in about 10 years time. Very happy to have more of these in the cellar.

[Bick]

But is it accurate to 2 decimal faces .

Not sure about 2 decimal places, but as accurate as many. I may have to refine the system over time. As it stands it probably works as follows:

means fantastic wine, with such character it made me chuckle
means excellent wine
means good wine
means a distinctly average wine with nothing much to smile about
means a poor wine
means I dont know what to make of it, maybe its me
means its faulty and had to go down the sink (or be used in cooking)
means its ordinary or worse but I should have known better, what was I thinking buying it anyway
means a cool wine, where the quality or otherwise is overshadowed by the occasion, the label or my state of drunkeness
means I have no real memory of the wine, and generally applies to the second bottle consumed

[dazza1968]

But is it accurate to 2 decimal faces .

Not sure about 2 decimal places, but as accurate as many. I may have to refine the system over time. As it stands it probably works as follows:

means fantastic wine, with such character it made me chuckle
means excellent wine
means good wine
means a distinctly average wine with nothing much to smile about
means a poor wine
means I dont know what to make of it, maybe its me
means its faulty and had to go down the sink (or be used in cooking)
means its ordinary or worse but I should have known better, what was I thinking buying it anyway
means a cool wine, where the quality or otherwise is overshadowed by the occasion, the label or my state of drunkeness
means I have no real memory of the wine, and generally applies to the second bottle consumed

Very good Mike now what does Mr Green mean ..........

Regards Dazza

[Bick]

Very good Mike now what does Mr Green mean ..........

Regards Dazza

Mr Green means "I got it way cheaper than any of you lot, in a never to be repeated, mispricing deal at the supermarket"

[jeremy]

Bick wrote

Bick wrote:
Davo wrote:
But is it accurate to 2 decimal faces .


Not sure about 2 decimal places, but as accurate as many. I may have to refine the system over time. As it stands it probably works as follows:

means fantastic wine, with such character it made me chuckle
means excellent wine
means good wine
means a distinctly average wine with nothing much to smile about
means a poor wine
means I dont know what to make of it, maybe its me
means its faulty and had to go down the sink (or be used in cooking)
means its ordinary or worse but I should have known better, what was I thinking buying it anyway
means a cool wine, where the quality or otherwise is overshadowed by the occasion, the label or my state of drunkeness
means I have no real memory of the wine, and generally applies to the second bottle consumed

This should be the new standard of show scoring, nothing else comes close!!! Wine shows would have meaning again...

[Partagas]

For us descriptive literary slackers, this is the best . It was there in front of us all this time…….

[rednut]

1997 Maglieri Shark Block Shiraz

Dug this out of the back of my wine fridge. Not even climbing the cork and still full of life and body.
Deep purple clour, clinging to the glass but definately ready to drink. Lovely.

I last had a bottle of this about 5 years ago. It was an absolute beauty, fantastic wine.

Not surprised to hear that it is still going strong.

''

Good to hear. Wish I had a few more but oh well.

[Roscoe]

Penfolds Bin 407 1999
Ready. Good without being very exciting or memorable.
Pialligo Estate Riesling 2006
Quite developed. Good. Drink now, will fall apart soon.