The Auswine Forum

JamieBahrain wrote:Cappellano Pie Rupestris Barolo 2000 & 2009- After a grueling week in urban China, I needed a producer to bring a celebration of humanity into my mid-week drinking. So I pulled the cork on a couple of Cappellanos, an amazing producer I buy annually regardless of vintage debate. 2009 and 2000 which I felt had similarities.

Barolo often delivers a sucker punch; pull the cork and there's explosive aromatics that frustratingly subside as aeration begins it's mysterious play. The initial aromatics were strikingly similar differentiated by a freshness of youth. On return from the initial, amazing kaleidoscope of both, the 2000 shows a light toffee, sour cherry/earth on pungent Serralunga minerality versus a ripe spectrum of complex dried florals, light aniseed/dark cherry and wet earth/cedar notes of the 2009.

In the mouth the 2000 has a powerful throw, with a front palate opulence and smoothed over texture, very long length and still a commanding tannin rise on the finish. The 2009 is incredibly approachable with the vintage delivering high levels of fruit and tannin ripeness - though neither over done. Just delicious Barolo and I can see why it's served by the glass at one of our top restaurants here in HKG.

I'll report further as I alchemize the wines- the 2000 will be left overnight and decanted for many hours tomorrow. The 2009, well I will drink most tonight and leave a glass to see how it fares overnight.

Teobaldo Cappellano never wanted mere mortals to associate points with his wonderful wines so I'll just say China is now a much better place after a few generous glasses.

The morning after drinking half the bottle of 2000 Cappellano, the rest was put in a half decanter and drunk late in the evening. The wine returned to its core with an even layer of dark, somewhat unyielding fruit with just a smattering of spice like complexity; the fruit runs the palate length measuring the powerful mineral infused acidity which draws out forceful persistence.

Could have been left another day or two in the decanter ! Fascinating wines....... I need to increase my Barolo stocks again there is no greater joy for me than opening three bottles on a Sunday night and watching their evolution over a week.

Picked up some reasonably priced Barbaresco at auction last night:
x3 Sottimano Barbaresco Pajore 2012
x3 Sottimano Barbaresco Cotta 2012
x3 Sottimano Barbaresco Pajore 2013

JamieBahrain wrote:That's amazing the Monfortino so approachable from 2008 which is a very classical vintage.

With the expotential rise of Burgundy collectables, Monfortino seems to have doubled in price in 3-5 years. For me, it was a regrettably tentative purchase, foolishly so, when two to two and a half bottles could be had for the price of a Grange or HofG.

The other wine of Francia, though appreciating, may be where the smart money is off to next.

Wow! Cerbaiona that good ! I was offered the wine but thought vintage hype and its since appreciated significantly!

2010 Cerbaiona probably the greatest wine I have tried
on two occasions

2009 Serradenari Langhe Nebbiolo
Touted as the highest vineyards in the region, I was looking forward to the maker belief in the "freshness" of the wine (Vintage not aside - although the altitude should have helped this vintage).
Was disappointing in low the level of funk on the nose, that muted any lively rose/tar aromas. The palate was much the same, lacked vitality. Not bad, but not up to expectations.

Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco Riserva Pora 1978 - Pora keeps good company. I've burnt the calories many times walking up from the Tanaro River and you have Asili, Rabaja and Martinenga in proximity to Pora.

Great cork! Good, I'll send the rest to the cellar in Australia as these wines just keep going and going.

Mesmerizing aromatically. Still bright, smokey dark fruits just touched by some twiggy-autumnal development with lovely mint-bay leaf battling a little rustiness. Rich and full front and mid, complete in fact, rounds off with rusty-earthy tannins with a light menthol sheen.

93pts

Rory wrote:2009 Serradenari Langhe Nebbiolo
Touted as the highest vineyards in the region, I was looking forward to the maker belief in the "freshness" of the wine (Vintage not aside - although the altitude should have helped this vintage).
Was disappointing in low the level of funk on the nose, that muted any lively rose/tar aromas. The palate was much the same, lacked vitality. Not bad, but not up to expectations.

Some random thoughts:

- Height should help, though producers near the Tanaro river seem to talk up the cooling effect from it.
- Serradenari's Barolo is a very 'four-square' style. I like it, but it can be a bit backward and unforthcoming.
- Langhe Nebbiolo / Nebbiolo d'Alba is often the home for young vine / declassified fruit. It depends how much they work to preserve the main wine / Crus, as to how much the base nebbiolo has to take what it's given. Sometimes the offcuts aren't that good.

Not certain this is the right spot, as its potentially commercial, but perhaps?

What can our Barolo Barbaresco and Nebbiolo lovers and experts here tell me about the wines of

Olek Bondonio.

Just be offered parcels of all the new releases, they sound really interesting, so looking for any feedback from you 'experts'.

What can you share with me about these wines?

.

Bloody tops big GT. TOPS. Mine are on the way. Reviews next week

I'd also add that from Roncagliette you have Olek, PdB and Gaja the main landowners. This is where Gaja's Sorì Tildin (made up name) comes from, which is 4-5 times more expensive and less to my tastes.

Olek is a lovely guy who did some winemaking in the Vales and Riverina. His wife is a well known chef whose family owns Castello di Verduno .

His wines need time. The regular Barbaresco does blossom after a few years and Roncagliette is for the long haul. I believe it gets underrated by commentators due too early assessment . But that's because I drink a lot of his wine. Olék is sourcing some more fruit from Starderi but I'm not sure if a new bottling? I'll catch up with him in a few weeks and we usually share a barbera- wine of choice

Roncagliette has Gajas Cost Russi too.

His 2015 Langhe Neb is Starderi, hit by hail, so released as a lower wine.

Gavin Trott wrote:Not certain this is the right spot, as its potentially commercial, but perhaps?

What can our Barolo Barbaresco and Nebbiolo lovers and experts here tell me about the wines of

Olek Bondonio.

Just be offered parcels of all the new releases, they sound really interesting, so looking for any feedback from you 'experts'.

What can you share with me about these wines?

Olek is on top of my "buy" list from Barbaresco. He is a very small producer who happens to own some exceptional vineyards.

I have enjoyed two bottles of the Roncagliette Barbaresco 2011 (pop and pour) and they were a thrilling roller coaster ride of complexity and interest before the tannins really asserted themselves after around 2 1/2 hours.

Would be very excited to see you get his wines in.

winetastic wrote:

Gavin Trott wrote:Not certain this is the right spot, as its potentially commercial, but perhaps?

What can our Barolo Barbaresco and Nebbiolo lovers and experts here tell me about the wines of

Olek Bondonio.

Just be offered parcels of all the new releases, they sound really interesting, so looking for any feedback from you 'experts'.

What can you share with me about these wines?

Olek is on top of my "buy" list from Barbaresco. He is a very small producer who happens to own some exceptional vineyards.

I have enjoyed two bottles of the Roncagliette Barbaresco 2011 (pop and pour) and they were a thrilling roller coaster ride of complexity and interest before the tannins really asserted themselves after around 2 1/2 hours.

Would be very excited to see you get his wines in.

Can get them all (right now) anyone interested, let me know, simply email me etc.

.

There are so many interesting nebbiolo producers from both Barolo and Barbaresco coming into Australia now...hard to stay away from buying 3-6 of everything that comes through!

Germano Ettore Barolo Prapa 1999- I was happy to find a few cases of this wine on offer from a wine storage facility. Before taking the lot I purchased a few bottles to sample and to my distress the cork has heavy stains toward the top. I never understand people who buy premium wine and don't store it properly- but anyways, I've complained to the storage facility saying this clown's wines don't advertise well for their climate controlled facility.

Surprisingly, the wine presents very well. Way better than expected. Barolo is resilient to a baking more than most.

Herbs, dried fruits and a heavy layer of licorice, dark fruit extracts. Freshened by a breeze of faint menthol. Red roses and strawberries emerge on the palate with some sweet fruit development. Good fruit weight. Long, typically Serralunga and with a roar of grippy tannins on the finish that seems to magically retreat back to the mid-palate in persistence.

Shhhh. Can't wait to try the next one I make take them if another good showing !

93pts

JamieBahrain wrote:Germano Ettore Barolo Prapa 1999- I never understand people who buy premium wine and don't store it properly- but anyways, I've complained to the storage facility saying this clown's wines don't advertise well for their climate controlled facility.

I wonder more about the wine's transportation and/or retail storage conditions, as opposed to the vendor and/or storage facility. Most people I know who buy more "esoteric" stuff like Barolo are extremely finicky about storage conditions.

Not sure how things are in HK, however in Australia most retailers don't bother with temperature controls (ie. very few wines would be kept at 14-16 degrees) and have wines stored at ambient temperature (can imagine them sweltering during 20-25 degree hot summer nights in store)...and who knows how transportation was done in Italy, shipping, and then within HK...and during what weather?

Out of interest (and obviously it's complicated and varies by producer and vintage), but broadly speaking what kind of age range is your sweet spot for opening good to higher end Barolo? 10 years, 20 years, 40 years ?

I'm not Jamie, but I'll put some thoughts in.

Barolo can be quite approachable on release, such that it can be interesting (and not unpleasant) to taste a younger version of a fully mature wine, especially where the producer hasn't changed their style much over that period. Marcarini springs to mind as the sort of producer where such a comparison might be interesting.

Often, especially in normal/vin de garde vintages, the wines can shut down very hard as the initial fruit eases back, revealing the core of tannins and acid. A good decant can help coax more out of it, but it's not guaranteed to turn it into a pleasurable wine. How long for? It varies (doesn't it always!). Some warm vintages such as 2000 have a high proportion of wines that never really shut down. They may last, but many get drunk because they could be drunk with pleasure whilst waiting for the 1996s etc. Those that shut down seem to do so 1-4 years after release, but I don't want to imply there is any precision to this.

When do they come out of their shell? Well some don't, so be warned. The ones that emerge healthy and well though are the ones that hook many of us into the nebbiolo habit. The tannins eventually drop away or at least recede sufficiently, what emerges from behind the tannins is often light delicate, ethereal and remarkably often quite unique. Sometimes a little primary fruit remains, but the sweetness seems more high toned / aromatic and indeed sniffing an old nebbiolo can be as enjoyable as tasting it. How long does it take? Depending on producer I would have said 25-40 years being a sweet spot for that delicate re-awakening, but again don't take that as precision. There are some stunning 1950s wines and some dead 1990s wines. Cellartracker can be useful for seeing recent tasting notes on not just that vintage but adjacent ones, giving you a rough feel for it. Bottle variation will probabaly give a number of disappointments, but there can be some very pleasant surprises as well.

Finally the times (or at least the wines) are a changing, and have been for a couple of decades. The modernist movement came in to make the wines more appealing / approachable and barring some disastrous experimentation, I'll concede they are often more approachable (not for people sensitive to French oak though). Longevity? I believe that was part of the compromise but we'll see, with many still going well after 2 decades. Indeed Modernist vs Traditional was only black and white for a handful of producers at the extremes, and these days the lines are really blurred. With respect to TiggerK's question, I believe this is an almost across the board note of caution about longevity of wines produced currently and over the last decade or two.

Wine Berserkers had a wonderful thread set up and updated by Pat Burton, a kind of Wiki page for who sits where on the spectrum. It isn't (and never was intended) as a quality indicator, juts a style indicator. There are good and less good producers all the way across the spectrum. Some producers themselves have changed - Fontanafredda have been pretty average for decades (but at least they appear to be trying now) but go back to the 1950s and 1960s and they had a very strong negociant / grape buyer position and a 1956 or 1958 can be stunning. Marchesi di Barolo have followed a similar path, though sad to say, I see the trend continuing towards fat, dumb and happy mediocrity, milking the growing number of tourists that are making it to Barolo village. I do hope they turn things around, as it was one of their Barolo wines that ignited the brains of the operation's interest in Nebbiolo (and wine other than Shiraz / Chardonnay) so they still hold a good memory. Vallana are in some ways similar, but more remarkable, for these were cheap wines on release, yet matured into some genuinely great wines. It's commonly believed that the greatness involved some skillful blending in of wines from elsewhere (Aglianico / Taurasi the prime suspect) and that their quality dropped off when the legislation tightened up to prevent the practice. They aren't cheap now, but if you see a 1950s or 1960s Vallana cheaper that AUD 150 then snap it up and then apologise to the seller. There are also some producers who are no longer producing wine, but whose wines have lasted. I'm not good on these, but a punt can be productive.

I reckon that bets could be nicely hedged at such an event, but sensible use of flights. Much as I hate the approach (I get confused, even stressed ) having multiple glasses on the table allows the wines to develop in the glass. Some do blossom and others fade, but beyond 3 glasses in front of me and I can feel a bit overwhelmed. I'd certainly receommend a place that will do you a really easy-paced meal, the sort that might start at 12 and finish at 4. I don't think Nebbiolo is a wine that suits cursory appreciation.

Finally, another controversial subject. Decanting / aeration. Many in the US favour a long decant - maybe half a day, to coax the wines out. The champions of this approach argue that nebbiolo is really very robust to air, despite it's delicacy. Indeed it has to be quite durable considering some of the 'cellaring' conditions in Italy. I'm not entirely convinced but have seen some evidence to support this... but also older wines that have faded fast after opening.

If you do go ahead with this, may be cork gods be with you, and you get a really good success rate. If you do it will be a very memorable event.

regards
Ian

I'm conscious that I don't always post TNs, but this one was a pleasing wine. €18,30 from a Torinese wine shop at the start of this year. Sella have remained well-regarded throughout the decades and their current wines are a little more expensive that this was.

1983 Tenute Sella Bramaterra - Italy, Piedmont, Northern Piedmont, Bramaterra (08/10/2016)
Cork a little spongey with a small amount of mould on top, but came out nice and whole using a butler's thief.

Wonderful aromas emerged out of the bottle and in the glass it's got that wonderful sweet/savoury balance with cherry, orange & raspberry backed by leather, a little smoke and also violet coming through as well.

Light bodied on the palate (consistent with the regional norm) and initially more savoury than sweet, but the latter emerges on a complex and quite long finish. Acidity fresh but not overbearing and there is some light tannic grip in the background.

A really nice showcase of what the region can produce.

2011 will improve but it lacks the haunting perfumes of GC
2005 is delicate florals perfumes an outstanding GC

imagehost

Tarija

Yep I understand your points fully with a little inside info' on poor Italian logistics . My point being HKGs number one storage facility brokers its clients wines on a bit of a "good storage" premiss.

Whist on storage, a recent related rant from Gallloni on poor storage in Italy :

Despite a rich historical legacy that can’t be denied, the reality is that, for all of its virtues, Chianti Classico lags global peers in several key areas. Too many cellars still rely on passive temperature control, if the word ‘control’ can even be used. Let me be clear: given today’s climatic conditions the modern winemaking and aging cellar MUST – let me repeat MUST – be temperature and humidity controlled. There are a few passive cellars that can handle the rigors of today’s climate, but they are the exception and they certainly cannot be said to be optimal.

The understanding of the importance of temperature control in both professional tasting settings and restaurants is totally lacking. The number of wineries this year where I was served wines in hot rooms with no air conditioning in the middle of the summer is more than I care to remember. So, after going through everything it takes to make great wine – investing in vineyards, planting vines and actually making the wines, a cycle that takes years, if not decades – producers all too often show their wines in the worst of settings. Why? The reasons are many, and include high energy costs and more relaxed attitude towards life in general that, at its worst, is expressed as apathy.

It is not uncommon to go to a restaurant and be served a bottle of San Pellegrino ice cold and a fine red wine at broiling room temperature on the hottest day of the summer. If you think I am exaggerating, well, sadly, I am not. I have stopped ordering anything more than basic Chianti Classicos, as all too often ordering a good bottle is essentially the same as throwing good money down the drain. Italians have long had a cultural aversion to air conditioning. That old-fashioned attitude, which is totally outdated today, also spills over into wine storage in restaurants.

Hey Michael

The 05 CF OK? I was going to buy a case but read mixed reports. I like 05 Barolo for all its awkwardness.

JamieBahrain wrote:Hey Michael

The 05 CF OK? I was going to buy a case but read mixed reports. I like 05 Barolo for all its awkwardness.

I loved it
I am not enamoured with 05s in general but this built perfume and mid palate feel without getting BIG
I rate it way above the 2011

Ian S wrote:

Out of interest (and obviously it's complicated and varies by producer and vintage), but broadly speaking what kind of age range is your sweet spot for opening good to higher end Barolo? 10 years, 20 years, 40 years ?

I'm not Jamie, but I'll put some thoughts in.

Barolo can be quite approachable on release, such that it can be interesting (and not unpleasant) to taste a younger version of a fully mature wine, especially where the producer hasn't changed their style much over that period. Marcarini springs to mind as the sort of producer where such a comparison might be interesting.

Often, especially in normal/vin de garde vintages, the wines can shut down very hard as the initial fruit eases back, revealing the core of tannins and acid. A good decant can help coax more out of it, but it's not guaranteed to turn it into a pleasurable wine. How long for? It varies (doesn't it always!). Some warm vintages such as 2000 have a high proportion of wines that never really shut down. They may last, but many get drunk because they could be drunk with pleasure whilst waiting for the 1996s etc. Those that shut down seem to do so 1-4 years after release, but I don't want to imply there is any precision to this.

When do they come out of their shell? Well some don't, so be warned. The ones that emerge healthy and well though are the ones that hook many of us into the nebbiolo habit. The tannins eventually drop away or at least recede sufficiently, what emerges from behind the tannins is often light delicate, ethereal and remarkably often quite unique. Sometimes a little primary fruit remains, but the sweetness seems more high toned / aromatic and indeed sniffing an old nebbiolo can be as enjoyable as tasting it. How long does it take? Depending on producer I would have said 25-40 years being a sweet spot for that delicate re-awakening, but again don't take that as precision. There are some stunning 1950s wines and some dead 1990s wines. Cellartracker can be useful for seeing recent tasting notes on not just that vintage but adjacent ones, giving you a rough feel for it. Bottle variation will probabaly give a number of disappointments, but there can be some very pleasant surprises as well.

Finally the times (or at least the wines) are a changing, and have been for a couple of decades. The modernist movement came in to make the wines more appealing / approachable and barring some disastrous experimentation, I'll concede they are often more approachable (not for people sensitive to French oak though). Longevity? I believe that was part of the compromise but we'll see, with many still going well after 2 decades. Indeed Modernist vs Traditional was only black and white for a handful of producers at the extremes, and these days the lines are really blurred. With respect to TiggerK's question, I believe this is an almost across the board note of caution about longevity of wines produced currently and over the last decade or two.

Wine Berserkers had a wonderful thread set up and updated by Pat Burton, a kind of Wiki page for who sits where on the spectrum. It isn't (and never was intended) as a quality indicator, juts a style indicator. There are good and less good producers all the way across the spectrum. Some producers themselves have changed - Fontanafredda have been pretty average for decades (but at least they appear to be trying now) but go back to the 1950s and 1960s and they had a very strong negociant / grape buyer position and a 1956 or 1958 can be stunning. Marchesi di Barolo have followed a similar path, though sad to say, I see the trend continuing towards fat, dumb and happy mediocrity, milking the growing number of tourists that are making it to Barolo village. I do hope they turn things around, as it was one of their Barolo wines that ignited the brains of the operation's interest in Nebbiolo (and wine other than Shiraz / Chardonnay) so they still hold a good memory. Vallana are in some ways similar, but more remarkable, for these were cheap wines on release, yet matured into some genuinely great wines. It's commonly believed that the greatness involved some skillful blending in of wines from elsewhere (Aglianico / Taurasi the prime suspect) and that their quality dropped off when the legislation tightened up to prevent the practice. They aren't cheap now, but if you see a 1950s or 1960s Vallana cheaper that AUD 150 then snap it up and then apologise to the seller. There are also some producers who are no longer producing wine, but whose wines have lasted. I'm not good on these, but a punt can be productive.

I reckon that bets could be nicely hedged at such an event, but sensible use of flights. Much as I hate the approach (I get confused, even stressed ) having multiple glasses on the table allows the wines to develop in the glass. Some do blossom and others fade, but beyond 3 glasses in front of me and I can feel a bit overwhelmed. I'd certainly receommend a place that will do you a really easy-paced meal, the sort that might start at 12 and finish at 4. I don't think Nebbiolo is a wine that suits cursory appreciation.

Finally, another controversial subject. Decanting / aeration. Many in the US favour a long decant - maybe half a day, to coax the wines out. The champions of this approach argue that nebbiolo is really very robust to air, despite it's delicacy. Indeed it has to be quite durable considering some of the 'cellaring' conditions in Italy. I'm not entirely convinced but have seen some evidence to support this... but also older wines that have faded fast after opening.

If you do go ahead with this, may be cork gods be with you, and you get a really good success rate. If you do it will be a very memorable event.

regards
Ian

I could read your musings on Nebbiolo all day, especially agree with this point: "I don't think Nebbiolo is a wine that suits cursory appreciation".

Picked up some reasonably priced Barolo/Nebbiolo at auction:

x5 Alessandro e Gian Natale Fantino Barolo Bussia Cascina Dardi 2006
x2 Reverdito Michele Barolo Riserva Riva Rocca 2010 (never heard of this producer, taking a punt since they were classified as traditional in the wine berserkers thread and its 2010...)
x1 Bruno Rocca Langhe Nebbiolo 2013

And now a bunch of Olek's wines as well:
x9 Olek Bondonio Langhe Nebbiolo 2015
x3 Olek Bondonio Barbaresco Straderi 2013
x3 Olek Bondonio Barbaresco Roncagliette 2013

winetastic wrote:And now a bunch of Olek's wines as well:
x9 Olek Bondonio Langhe Nebbiolo 2015
x3 Olek Bondonio Barbaresco Straderi 2013
x3 Olek Bondonio Barbaresco Roncagliette 2013

So that's where they all went..

Running this tasting in November (paid event, other retailer, won't say as Gavin is a retailer) but a very good picture of how good 2012 can be. Muzza (winetastic) is in, so he will no doubt post his thoughts!
WIll shuffle brackets so Ravera is in with Ravera and Brunate in bracket 2.

Bracket Producer Vintage
1 Massolino Barolo 2012
1 Paolo Scavino 2012
1 Trediberri Barolo 2012

Bracket
2 Cascina della Rose Barbaresco 2012
2 Vietti Castiglione Falletto 2012
2 Elvio Cogno Ravera 2012

Bracket
3 Giovanni Rosso ‘La Serra’ 2012
3 G.D Vajra Ravera 2012
3 Marcarini ‘Brunate’ 2012

Bracket Great Vintages of the 21st Century
4 Aldo Conterno ‘Romirasco’ 2006
4 Massolino Barolo Vigna Rionda Riserva X Anni 2004
4 Gaja ‘Costa Russi’ 2001

Interested on the views on the 2012's. They could be more approachable than the last flight .

Really looking forward to it GW.

I'll try to remember to bring a notebook and scrawl some musings.

winetastic wrote:I could read your musings on Nebbiolo all day.

You are too kind, I believe that should read:

winetastic wrote:Geez, this guy can waffle on for hours!

I've only been drinking it for about 15 years, and I do like and drink plenty of other wines (Nebbiolo is currently running at 25% of my cellar, but necessarily this represents a lot of immature wines buried for later). There are plenty of others that have immersed themselves more thoroughly than me in Barolo and Barbaresco.

It is really exciting to see the enthusiasm on these pages for Nebbiolo - and a wider interest in Italian wines. Good to see wines I know, but also interesting to see wines I've never tried or even heard of.

regards
Ian