The Auswine Forum

A silver medal probably meant something back in those days !

Fantastic Andrew, agree with the VFM proposition here, recently picked up 3 and 6 of a number of 90s vintages of all 3 Lindies Trio for bargain prices. Will be on the look out for a few more. The 94/96/97s have been fantastic, particularly the Pyrus.
Interesting Ah So, I only have the two prong number. Is the corkscrew added afterwards, or goes in at the same time. Might have to invest in one.
Cheers Craig

Yes definitely worth it on these kind of wines as long as the prices are reasonable. The corkscrew is a Durand. Corkscrew goes in first then the ah so around it, then you spin/slide them both out together. Certainly a rip-off in price but cant argue that its the best solution for old corks.

https://www.macphees.com.au/wine-accessories-durand-vintage-wine-opener/

Sheesh, $189. Clever how the cork screw slips over the prongs though.
Think I will stick with the Ah So and the parachute cloth, filters down to a few microns

Cheers Craig

I’ve got two of those Durands. One for Hong Kong and one for Australia. Very happy with them. Especially for Aussie corks from 80’s and 90’s. They are often so crumbly despite perfect cellaring. Old World stuff less so. Unless secondary market purchase and bad cellaring.

1990 Yalumba The Reserve…. In a really good spot. Muted nose at first, which took a couple of hours to wake up. If tasted blind, I would have said this was a straight Cabernet. Lots of tobacco notes, with a bit of smoke and Ribena. Decent length. A good effort for a first release.

I think it was the 93 Yalumba Signature I pored bottle after bottle down the sink due taint. Shied away until re-introduced via 90’s Octavious. Stayed away again though so often I read of good classical offerings. Bad corks! What worse publicity?

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:22 pm I’ve got two of those Durands. One for Hong Kong and one for Australia. Very happy with them. Especially for Aussie corks from 80’s and 90’s. They are often so crumbly despite perfect cellaring. Old World stuff less so. Unless secondary market purchase and bad cellaring.

I have a Durand as well, almost de rigeur for Oz reds older than mid 90’s

May have to invest...but $190 is putting me off.
Perhaps I can finally use the fancy corkscrew Rockford sent me
Or go the Greg Norman RM Williams Boot method
Cheers Craig

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:58 am May have to invest...but $190 is putting me off.
Perhaps I can finally use the fancy corkscrew Rockford sent me
Or go the Greg Norman RM Williams Boot method
Cheers Craig

I've heard of DIY solutions combining an ah-so / butler's thief pronged cork remover, with a spare spiral from another corkscrew. The spiral inserted to 'hold' the cork in place, so that when the prongs are used, they don't simply push the cork into the bottle.

I've never tried that myself, accepting the risk of a cork having to be pushed into the bottle and having to decant (which I might want to do anyway).

I've also baulked at spending that much on corkscrew... it's almost the price of a bottle of Bin28

Ian S wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:55 pm

phillisc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:58 am May have to invest...but $190 is putting me off.
Perhaps I can finally use the fancy corkscrew Rockford sent me
Or go the Greg Norman RM Williams Boot method
Cheers Craig

I've heard of DIY solutions combining an ah-so / butler's thief pronged cork remover, with a spare spiral from another corkscrew. The spiral inserted to 'hold' the cork in place, so that when the prongs are used, they don't simply push the cork into the bottle.

I've never tried that myself, accepting the risk of a cork having to be pushed into the bottle and having to decant (which I might want to do anyway).

I've also baulked at spending that much on corkscrew... it's almost the price of a bottle of Bin28

Ha ha ha ha ha Ian...more gold, suspect that some wine lists have Bin 28 close to $190 .
Yes if the cork breaks...tough. Filter and decant should sort out any mess
Cheers Craig

Some beautiful Aussies under cork. Rockford Sparkling Shiraz 2009 disgorgement which is rich and round, in its long drinking window for mine. Which is the 10 + year mark invariably.

Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz 2002 was voluptuous and giving. Typical high-end Southern Vales, then adding shades of red fruits, menthol and classy French Oak giving it good complexity in its style. It well eclipsed a D’Arenberg Dead Arm Shiraz 2002, which oddly, could do with more time or aeration to draw out a bit more development. Loaded with berries and variations of spice and volatile lift. Acidity is long and spiky~a 20 year old wine that is in good structural shape and the rest of the case can be played with food or aeration to deliver sounder results.

A pleasant old St Ignatious Indigo Semillon 2007 at FermentAsian yesterday. Great nose and colour, lacked palate intensity with watery edges- agreeable with good food. Should have brought an Old Mosel.

Had friends around so thought I’d work through Kay’s- 2001 Block 6, 2005 Block 6, 2005 Hillside and 2005 Cuthbert.

The 2001 B6 in cork and in form. A bold, dry red with beautiful perfumes and heavily extracted on the palate, driving gratifying but simple pleasure. The 2005 B6 was boring under screw cap. Drank like a $20 red. Left it overnight and woompa. As you’d expect from B6. The day before it was double-decanted an hour. I’m questioning not only screw cap development in high quality red wine but also how do you prepare them? This experience was Barolo-like. Hard work!

andrewpc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:03 pm A great old bottle opened on Saturday night. I sourced a number of these earlier in the year when I turned 40. Their cellaring provenance was highly questionable but they were cheap, so I took the risk. This was the third and last and was really fantastic. Not surprisingly the fruit had faded but it wasn't all dry leather. The wine had nice structure, a real earthiness, some good acid and great tertiary notes. Bricking, but still a great purple colour. It was very enjoyable with a rib-eye cooked over an open fire.


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I am using the manual system to say: "Like".

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:24 am It well eclipsed a D’Arenberg Dead Arm Shiraz 2002, which oddly, could do with more time or aeration to draw out a bit more development. Loaded with berries and variations of spice and volatile lift. Acidity is long and spiky~a 20 year old wine that is in good structural shape and the rest of the case can be played with food or aeration to deliver sounder results.

I tend to find, for whatever its worth, quite spiky acidity to almost all the d'Arenberg Red Wines I have tried. Heavily added acid, I think????

Not the hugest sample size, I'm sure there are many many here with more experience than me with d'Arenberg???

What say you?

Gavin, I have a bunch in the cellar from the 90s, and with that sort of age I can't say I've found the acidity prominent or disjointed, as one might expect. Likewise with a 2001 Dead Arm I enjoyed recently. However a recent 2018 or so Old Vine/Footbolt sampled had acidity that rendered it almost undrinkable - even over several nights. Likewise a small sample size but is has put me off a label I used to enjoy, with even the low tier wines enjoyable after 15+ years in the cellar.

Gavin Trott wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:12 pm

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:24 am It well eclipsed a D’Arenberg Dead Arm Shiraz 2002, which oddly, could do with more time or aeration to draw out a bit more development. Loaded with berries and variations of spice and volatile lift. Acidity is long and spiky~a 20 year old wine that is in good structural shape and the rest of the case can be played with food or aeration to deliver sounder results.

I tend to find, for whatever its worth, quite spiky acidity to almost all the d'Arenberg Red Wines I have tried. Heavily added acid, I think????

Not the hugest sample size, I'm sure there are many many here with more experience than me with d'Arenberg???

What say you?

Totally agree. I think the Acid is out of balance, im my view. I was involved in a tasting recently with the Dead Arm, all were noticeably acidic. The general comments were the nature of their ferments, are generally on the hotter side and uncontrolled. I don't rate them.

I don’t rate them either Matt

Matt@5453 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:00 pm

Gavin Trott wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:12 pm

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:24 am It well eclipsed a D’Arenberg Dead Arm Shiraz 2002, which oddly, could do with more time or aeration to draw out a bit more development. Loaded with berries and variations of spice and volatile lift. Acidity is long and spiky~a 20 year old wine that is in good structural shape and the rest of the case can be played with food or aeration to deliver sounder results.

I tend to find, for whatever its worth, quite spiky acidity to almost all the d'Arenberg Red Wines I have tried. Heavily added acid, I think????

Not the hugest sample size, I'm sure there are many many here with more experience than me with d'Arenberg???

What say you?

Totally agree. I think the Acid is out of balance, im my view. I was involved in a tasting recently with the Dead Arm, all were noticeably acidic. The general comments were the nature of their ferments, are generally on the hotter side and uncontrolled. I don't rate them.

Interesting topic. Have noticed this feature on a number of reds from high volume wineries. Firstly, is the '02 Dead Arm under cork or sealed under screwcap? I've found screw cap exacerbates acid imbalance in red wines over time. Some photos show screw cap, some show cork - 20 years ago, probably still cork. Secondly, the best time to acid adjust is at the crusher; next best is during a cold soak pre-ferment but you need to rummage well. Either way you're enhancing colour and flavour by having a more favourable pH during ferment.
Sometimes major acid adjustment happens at the end of ferment ( not good because malo bacteria don't like a sudden pH change!), sometimes before going into barrel (if barrel aged ) and the worst time is prior to bottling! In the last three instances, the acid never really integrates properly and will still jar in later years. (Hot ferments in this day and age usually mean a concertina-ed vintage and they're rushing ferments.)
And, years ago, ( in big wine companies ) there was the practice of acid adjusting to a pH of 3.5 I think it was, no matter how much tartaric acid was heaved in! Fortunately with better site selection, better canopies etc., these somewhat barbaric practices are now but a fading memory.

I’m drinking so many old Aussies it’s difficult to keep up. I sense an urgency with many as they need to be drunk -even provenance history from cellar door to professional storage.

A beautiful 2002 Craiglee Shiraz last night. Svelte, red berries spice and whisps of black pepper. Always a redoubtable producer!

Some lovely old Mt Edelstones earning Zalto Butgundy glasses with their maturation refinement. A 96, still heavenly herbs and spice in a classic Edelstone frame. A 92 holding, it’s decay and skeletal oak nuance of considerable drinking interest. A 97, once clear wine do the vintage for me, now showing veteran delicacy and drink up! A 94 Cyril too; needed lamb to draw out fruit from a long run of acidly and resolved tannin.

15 to 20 year Aussie Rieslings. in screw-cap, fill the drinks fridge and deliver consistently good B grade performances with ease.

There were many more. A magnum of 96 Rockford Home Block tonight should be interesting.

2002 Craiglee, last vintage I purchased, before interest rates/school fees on modest incomes bit hard. Thanks for the note, 4 in the cellar I think.
I have just ordered 2018s
Cheers Craig

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:46 am
Some lovely old Mt Edelstones earning Zalto Butgundy glasses with their maturation refinement.

That is a wine I do wish I could have bought in the 90s... examples from that period have always been amazing when I have been lucky enough to see them. But I can't manage the pricing today, especially if you can buy from the whole world.

Yes makes me weep 1990 Mount Edelstone $13

Cheers Craig

Still got unopened boxes of 90’s Mt Edelstone. Think I’ll leave to posterity. No use auctioning then off they don’t get the price they deserve ( perfect cellaring )

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:11 pm Still got unopened boxes of 90’s Mt Edelstone. Think I’ll leave to posterity. No use auctioning then off they don’t get the price they deserve ( perfect cellaring )

Why not sell at Wickman’s, he will place a note on the auction lot that the wine has been professionally cellared since release if you have evidence of this.

Few issues at play here
90 Mt Ed comes off such a low base $13.
Current vintage is 20 times that so damage is done in terms of exacting top returns, despite attractiveness of a sealed box and good provenance. Almost without exception 2nd hand Henschke is cheaper than current vintage.
I'd find some nice company, good cuts and start opening a few. Or wait 8 years and flog them off for a 40th birthday.
Cheers Craig

tarija wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:32 pm

JamieAdelaide wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:11 pm Still got unopened boxes of 90’s Mt Edelstone. Think I’ll leave to posterity. No use auctioning then off they don’t get the price they deserve ( perfect cellaring )

Why not sell at Wickman’s, he will place a note on the auction lot that the wine has been professionally cellared since release if you have evidence of this.

I’ll keep them. Share a heap.I still think properly cellared wine goes a bit too cheap to make it worth the other of selling.

Many of my cases of wine are unopened from late 80’s & 90’s. Like time capsules. Find winery notes and receipts and even in the case of Wendouree, the wrong wine!

andrewpc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:03 pm A great old bottle opened on Saturday night. I sourced a number of these earlier in the year when I turned 40. Their cellaring provenance was highly questionable but they were cheap, so I took the risk. This was the third and last and was really fantastic. Not surprisingly the fruit had faded but it wasn't all dry leather. The wine had nice structure, a real earthiness, some good acid and great tertiary notes. Bricking, but still a great purple colour. It was very enjoyable with a rib-eye cooked over an open fire.


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Thanks for the bump on this post, missed it first time around so I had a look.

This sounds right up my alley, love those tertiary characters you get in old wine.

This reminds me about a year and a half ago I opened a 1980 and it was a polarising wine. It had a mean green steak through it, green bell peppers with some fruit in the background. Half loved it and half thought it was too green but everyone kept going back to it. By the end of the night there was nearly a couple of glasses left in the decanter, put my glass and decanter standing up in my bag and left. I’m on the corner waiting for my wife to pick me up and it’s a bit earlier than we planned. Then I pull out my glass and the decanter with the wine, pour myself a glass put my headphones in. Now I’m standing on the corner of the Vic market waiting for my wife with a glass of 1980 St Georges Cabernet any Status Quo playing. Didn’t mind waiting at all.

I still have an 80, 85 and 91.

Cheers Con.

All you needed Con was one of those cracking bratwurst rolls from the Vic Market, but guess they weren't open at midnight

Had an 80 St George about 20 years ago, I am fast coming to the opinion that Lindies have been the Coonawarra bridesmaid for a few decades now...not any more.
Recent releases have been excellent and 90s vintages that I have picked up on the 2nd hand market equally good.
Cheers Craig

Couple of magnificent Jasper Hill Georgia’s Paddock. The 1998, a behemoth in youth and adolescence, still shows muscle and power at peak drinking. Nose was wild and funky, palate a delight, intense and complex. A 2000 was quite amazing. Complete, well balanced. Aromatically it was perfect. With freshness of fruit, and a medley of aged shiraz notes-porcini like.

I’d suggest the 98 a better wine in youth versus maturity ( just ) however the 2000 has reached the world class echelons of fine wine at 22 years from vintage. Sublime! Improving beyond the expectations of release.