The Auswine Forum

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:45 am**

now, those of you that are like me and NOT chemists, will not know that 50% of people cannot detect pyrazine taint, which is the reason these two Burgundy vintages are so controversial.
I am in the 50% that can unfortunately detect pyridine taint, and in my particular case, I am greatly sensitive to it.
So for me, 04 and 11 Burgundy, including Fourrier in both vintages, are basically undrinkable.
If you are in the lucky 50%, you might think the wines are great. However, usually pyrrazine-affected wines do not exhibit great longevity (Fourrier wines cannot live long anyway, as we know, because of the co2 v so2 hum-drum.). Ergo, if you like those vintages, drink up, the 04's in particular won't last more than another five years.
So there is not really any subjectivity here, tasters will either find the wines green or not!!!!

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:13 am**

winetastic wrote:
Mike Hawkins wrote:2005 Dom Perignon - first time with this Champagne - a wine I expected to whinge about..... First whiff and taste elicited a 'wow'... The pinot is really noticeable in this blend (60/40 as distinct from the usual 50/50) - so noticeable I would have thought it was nearly 80% of the blend. Really open, hedonistic and approachable for a young DP. There is less than 20% of usual DP production in this vintage given the conditions back in 2005. The 2006 (another ripe-ish vintage) will be out in Feb/March next year.

.... After the 2nd glass my reaction was 'trophy wife wine'... it might put a smile on your face for 10 years but thereafter you'll wish you'd gone for something more cerebral. An interesting, but not a great, DP.

Thanks for this note.

I am a bit of a Champagne novice, however I found the 2004 Dom completely changed my mind about what Champagne can be. Have you had the 2004 and if so, how would you compare it with 2005? Just attempting to place my own limited experiences on a bit of a spectrum...

I've probably had the 04 at least 15 times. While there has been some bottle variation, it is your typical DP.. its a 50/50 blend to start with and has the trademark creaminess and nuttiness. Additionally, it is still well short of its drinking window for my tastes. I had the 05 alongside the 04 and had they been blind, i could never have guessed the former was DP. The pinot was so overwhelming and came across as ultra ripe. It is most definitely not a typical DP. Might be best to wait until the 06 comes out in March... Or buy more 04 while it is still available.

Posted: **Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:06 am**

Like the '04, but I've never had the '05.

Not a fan of the '03, though. What was the blend, Mike? Another pinot-dominant one or was it just the warm year?

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:51 pm**

2010 Eldridge Estate Chardonnay.
Complex and textural, looking very good. Even looked good after 24 hours in fridge. Good palate length with moderate acid.

2013 Hoddles Creek Syberia Chardonnay.
Wow. Coiled tight, yet layers of complexity and a loooong finish. Put it down and forget about it for 10 years.

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:21 pm**

Rory wrote:2013 Hoddles Creek Syberia Chardonnay.
Wow. Coiled tight, yet layers of complexity and a loooong finish. Put it down and forget about it for 10 years.

Rory, what's the story (no pun intended) with this Syberia label? It's new to me.

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:26 pm**

2013 Hughes BÃƒÂ©guet Trousseau 'So True'
Very small producer so numbers are miniscule (less than 1000 bottles). Very light in colour, a blend of Trousseau and Ploussard. Light and floral nose, with red fruits, rose petal, cherry, some stalkiness providing complexity, lots of acid. The tannin profile is more towards the back palate providing a nice bit of grip. Seems to open up more with a bit of air and become richer and fuller and more structured. Having it with some Panko chicken fillet strips and Frites (which sounds better than chips ;-)

and some Peri-naise.

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:27 pm**

Mixed bag over the last few days with lots of guests and a barbeque with friends. Thursday night had a sublime 2004 Turkey Flat Barossa Shiraz. In a great place. Chocolate, plum, terrific tannin and great depth and length. Friday had a very good 2010 Graillot No. 2 Heathcote Syrah. Real interest with some twiggy green notes (in a positive way). Good length but a little disjointed in the finish. Couldn't put my finger on what I didn't like, but there you go. Also opened a 2011 Tyrell's Brokenback Shiraz. Very medium-bodied, but plenty of interest. Last night opened a 2008 Katnook Estate Cabernet Sauvignon. Major disappointment. No character. No power. So opened a 2002 Deutschke St Jakobi Barossa Shiraz. Better, but no where near the quality of the TF.

Note to self - avoid disappointment by opening the best bottle of wine last! Or manage your expectations after a good wine. :roll:

Cheers

Michael

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:02 pm**

dave vino wrote:and some Peri-naise.

]

Gold

After a weekend of being sick, cracked open a 2006 Best's Bin 0 tonight. Still vibrant and fresh. Good cool climate Shiraz. Felt it was maybe just a bit too sweet but might settle down and mellow with a bit more time.

Posted: **Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:04 pm**

2007 Chateau Grillet
Pretty typical of this iconic estate, pretty herbal and honeyed notes, subtle but goes well with mild dishes (in this case and entree of steamed fish). Price has sky-rocketed since the new owner took over, a good wine but not worth the $120+ asking price. God knows what this might cost in Australia!!
Drink: pretty soon. 91pts

2005 Dugat-Py Pommard La Levriere
Holy smokes, this is a big wine!!! Sort of the Greenock Creek of Pinot Noir!!! Dark fruit, still plenty of steely tannins, maybe even some plum and anise. This is more akin to a barrel sample, not a 10 year old wine. Gosh, many 05 Burgs are HUGE. Not really my style, although it is clearly designed to drink another decade from now. I suspect it will sort itself out in 10 years and develop into a great wine, but for now, leave alone.
Drink: 2025+, 92++ pts

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:47 am**

swirler wrote:Like the '04, but I've never had the '05.

Not a fan of the '03, though. What was the blend, Mike? Another pinot-dominant one or was it just the warm year?

I'm not overly enamoured with the 2003. IIRC, the blend was pinot dominant that year as well.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:12 pm**

felixp wrote:very wide-spread cocccinella taint in both the 2004 and 2011 vintages.... i.e. Pyrazine taint

I haven't heard people finding them in a lot of 2011s..although some people have found some...while others have strongly disagreed but who detected in droves in 2004...

I've also not seen people NOT pick up the greenies in a majority of 2004s...This was actually the first 2004 I've seen some people get it and some people not...it was green..just not as green as other 2004s...

Which leads me to believe this is a case of different sensitivities to it (which is what everything I've read suggests) and not a 50% cannot detect which is something that I've never seen and still can't find anything to back that claim up...

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:46 pm**

well, go talk to any ENT surgeon, they will explain it to you :wink:

as for scribes, plenty have mentioned the individual variance in sensitivity to green. Equally, a number have discussed the 50/50 phenomenon. I remember reading an article by Bill Nanson (my favourite Burgundy critic) last year who said exactly as much when discussing the problem re 2004 and 2011 (yep, both affected, if you talk to the tasters and locals and not the vignerons hehe). So go check the Burgundy report if you want to read more about it.
I like Bill Nanson because he is pretty un-biased in his reviews. Unfortunately, this cannot be said for the vast majority of Burgundy critics, in particular one well-known British and another American critic.
I have been absolutely amazed once when drinking a bottle of 1996 cabernet sauvignon from Delatite (Devil's River IIRC) where I found it totally undrinkable, whereas three of the other tasters could not detect any fault whatsoever!!!! Many such examples, but that one really stuck out for me.
BTW, there is a difference between "green" taint and "green" flavour (often seen in some Bordeaux with the use of Cabernet Franc). I am totally averse to green taint, but love wines like Pichon Lalande which typically has a green/herbal element.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:53 pm**

in either case, I would think the best thing for any wine lover to do is to actually taste the wines of these vintages before you buy. Whether some-one thinks the wine is tainted or not is not really that relevant to the person who is going to buy, cellar and drink the stuff!!! Some vintages I just buy, others I am very wary of due to vintage conditions.... in these cases I always am prepared to try before i buy, even if the cost is higher. (unfortunately for me, I didn't listen to myself and have several cases of 2011 Burgundy I will never drink)
For my palate, and of course it is only me, 2004 and 2011 Burgundy are almost exactly the same vintages.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:56 pm**

oh, and last thing..... a mate (ENT) once told me that people who have a high sensitivity to green taint often do not like the taste and smell of marzipan. Go figure.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:04 pm**

Well, given the empirical evidence at hand, where many of the same people have detected it in some wines but not others that some have detected it, I think that would suggest sensitivity rather than a yes/no situation (such as carbon tasting or coriander).

They pyrazines are also different...

2-methoxy-3-isopropyl-pyrazine is ladybug taint.
2-methoxy-3-isobutyl-pyrazine is like bellpepper/capsicum...I'm sure there are probably others.

Not sure where your ENT buddy got his information...but I've not heard it suggested as you've said and I can't find anything to back that claim either...it doesn't seem to be supported by anyone else's experience because if that were true, it should be that people that can't detect ladybug taint, shouldn't be able to detect it ever right?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:03 pm**

I see your point, but I think it is more a case of 50% can't detect it, and the 50% that can detect it have varying degrees of sensitivity. So not really empirical as in "yes or no" but more yes, to a varying degree, or no.
Yea, there are different pyrazines, but as far as I have read, they all cause the same problem.
As I said before, read The Burgundy Report for more info on this. Sorry, I can't remember what particular journal it was in, but if you click "search" you should be able to find it.... is a very technical discussion, so I reckon you will understand it better than me!!!!

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:41 pm**

I left my quaffer empties -

Briefly, amazing GV from Austria, Macan is a joint venture between Mouton and Vega and the Rioja could be a dry red from well, anywhere but Rioja. Braida's aged Barbera continues to impress ( Bigotta 2001 ), Neudorf is very good but not excellent.

Posted: **Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:07 pm**

2010 Cavallotto Barbera D'Alba Vigna Cuculo DOC
Inky black almost impenetrable colour, which creates legs on the glass when swirled. Plums, spices and black liquorice, really rich on the palate, powerful fruit tainted by a bit of heat. Lots of structure which IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll monitor over the evening. Finishes quite grippy with fine tannins with the heat poking its head up again at the back of the palate. Has a great length. Lots of rich fruitcake and Cherry Brandy on the palate make it a great match for heavier meat dishes. Puts me in the mind of a Barossan Shiraz.

Lovely drink. (you can blame Jamie and Mark AS for my Italian Crush)

From Bibendums site

Ã¢â‚¬Å“Cavallotto's Vigna Cuculo is big league Barbera and comes from a parcel of 50+-year-old vines within the western side of Bricco Boschis. This parcel is named after the Cuckoo bird (we're not sure why and neither is Alfio Cavallotto). The unique stature of this wine can, again, be attributed to the mature vines, low yields and powerful terroir of the Bricco Boschis. These elements, along with the western aspect and the preponderance of limestone in the soil here, serve to temper the Barbera's natural acidity. The aging of the wine, too, is distinctive, with the fermenting must spending 15 days on skins, a long time for Barbera, bringing structure and length. The wine is aged for 24 months in the same, aged Slovenian botti as the Nebbiolo wines, so it has none of the toasty new oak that blights many a Barbera. The nose is rich in vibrant, deep-set aromas of dried cherry, blueberry with hints of more earthy, spice and potters-clay complexity. It's suave and finely sculpted in the mouth, with more dark fruits, liquorice and bay leaf flavours as well as bittersweet Chinotto-like freshness on the finish. Loads of fleshy texture again as well as good grip. In sum, this is not your garden variety Barbera; it will improve in the bottle for another five years and could be enjoyed for three times as long.

Posted: **Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:33 pm**

spot the guy who has been working from home this week...

2012 Bernard Baudry Le Clos Guillot Chinon
Bright purple, with blackberry, raspberry, cedar and white peppers and a bit of whole bunch, vegetal characteristic. Lots of sappy/sour fruit and acid on the palate, I keep coming back to "crunchy", it screams for food. Some earthy elements become more pronounced as it warms in the glass. Seems a bit unbalanced at the moment with the acid wiping out any vestiges of length, tannins are there at the sides of the mouth but are overwhelmed at the moment.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:09 am**

Last night.
2012 Tuesner Reibke Shiraz
Poured an hour prior to drinking.
Floral fragrance. Medium to full bodied. Dark blackberry fruit with some savoury notes. Fine tannins. Decent length.
Great value for money in my opinion.
Is this type of quaffer Shiraz likely to get better over time? Or is it a drink now type thing?

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:40 am**

2000 Mt Pleasant Maurice O'Shea Shiraz

After a pretty crappy week at work decided to open something nice last night. Only had half an hour in the decanter. Opened with a slightly potty nose which settled down half an hour later so probably needed more air time. Then moved to a slightly sweet barnyard nose. Lots of secondary flavours thought still pretty good dry red fruit. Softened but still plentiful tannin. A little old leather and funk hidden in the mid palate. Good length. I quite enjoyed it.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:59 pm**

Tragic events, a toast and thoughts to those affected - LibertÃƒÂ©, ÃƒÂ©galitÃƒÂ©, fraternitÃƒÂ©

2012 FrÃƒÂ©dÃƒÂ©ric Lambert Les Gryphees

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:41 pm**

maybs wrote:2000 Mt Pleasant Maurice O'Shea Shiraz

After a pretty crappy week at work decided to open something nice last night. Only had half an hour in the decanter. Opened with a slightly potty nose which settled down half an hour later so probably needed more air time. Then moved to a slightly sweet barnyard nose. Lots of secondary flavours thought still pretty good dry red fruit. Softened but still plentiful tannin. A little old leather and funk hidden in the mid palate. Good length. I quite enjoyed it.

I have these at home so I'm glad to read your notes. A couple of weeks ago I opened a couple of the 2000 Rosehill. One was corked, and the second bottle was great drinking. Still plenty of life left. Last 2000 Maurice O'Shea I opened must have been about 6 years ago and it was a big brute of a wine then, so I've stayed away from them. What a bargain they were from a certain Bondi retailer at circa $35 a bottle.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:02 pm**

Yeah it was pretty good ages medium weight Hunter Shiraz gotta few more, won't rush to open the next unless I can't resist some deliciousness

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:49 pm**

felixp wrote:2011 Fourrier Gevrey Chambertin 1er Cru "Cherbaudes"
This is so green, I suspect it was made by martians. Gosh, I dislike the 2011 vintage in Burgundy. However, it should be noted that I am extremely sensitive to "green" in wines. Others might tolerate this much better than I. NR.

Had a 2011 Jean Noel Gagnard 1er Cru Clos De la Maltroye last night, and agree. Green notes. Not sure where this will go.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:51 pm**

2014 Home Hill Pinot Noir deep dark purple colour crystalline , elegant nose of blackberry and dark cherries. On the palate this wine is very refined, it does not have the alcohol heat of some vintages and has nicely judged acids. Drinking very nicely now and expected to improve. Persistent length

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:38 pm**

1992 Yalumba The Signature Cab/Shiraz
Great colour with little to no bricking, just a slight browning at the edges alluding to its age. Blackcurrant, chocolate, and a touch of fortified characteristics, very rich, dark fruits. Good structure still, will do another 5 years no worries. The cabernet dominates on the palate with the shiraz providing an elegance to the nose. The oak is integrating nicely now after 23 years, must have been a monster when young. This is why we age wine, fantastic drinking.

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:14 pm**

Had a 2008 Miro Vineyard Syrah with lunch today. It's a really nice light-bodied drink. From Waiheke Island in NZ. I have never had a wine from there before. Very nice, indeed.

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:47 pm**

maybs wrote:2000 Mt Pleasant Maurice O'Shea Shiraz

After a pretty crappy week at work decided to open something nice last night. Only had half an hour in the decanter. Opened with a slightly potty nose which settled down half an hour later so probably needed more air time. Then moved to a slightly sweet barnyard nose. Lots of secondary flavours thought still pretty good dry red fruit. Softened but still plentiful tannin. A little old leather and funk hidden in the mid palate. Good length. I quite enjoyed it.

I have had a few out of the cellar in recent years. In recent times the wine has undergone the whole butterfly chrysalis thing. I personally found the first few thin and weedy but now realise it was in some form of hole because the last couple have put on weight through the middle and the fruit has taken on that Hunter Valley sweaty saddle and forest floor flavour spectrum.

Mark

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:20 am**

1982 Chateau l'Evangile
drunk this after getting home from Dongguan, sitting back, and putting on my own little Facebook tribute. Sad weekend.
the wine was as expected..... all class, sophisitcation and breeding. A great wine from a great country.
Paris, je pleure avec toi.

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