The Auswine Forum

All good mate.

Just finishing our last year here.

The response from Europe as far as relocating, job opportunities etc has been 100 times better than AUS in the COVID climate.

I appreciate AUS is a different circumstance to Europe.

Our next adventure will be Europe or South America, but Europe seems more likely.

Either scenario presents some amazing wine opportunities and way better priced and less risk of heat damage than Malaysia!

Hopefully the Roaring Twenties beckon- adventures for all.

Jamie, sadly Hawks-Doggies match in Tassie this year

My nephew and wife went thru quarantine in melbs, said it was fine, but I'm sure it's the luck of the draw.

I'm in the opposite boat to many, I am trying to get back home to China!! Still not allowed back, I haven't seen my wife and child (aged 6) for more than nine months grrrr
The alternative, getting my wife and child here, is just as bad, point-blank refusal by DFAT... despite my child having an Australian passport.

The Chinese consulate in Melbourne had given me a date of 28th March for an entry into the mainland, but they are now cautioning me that date is no longer set in stone

Even when I eventually get home, returning to Australia may not be possible for quite a while, which puts me in a bind as I need to work 40 days a year to keep my medical specialist qualifications.

I did not know that the Australian government is preventing Australian citizens from returning home. I was under the impression that it was local quarantine regulations and the lack of flight connections that was to blame. That was the problem for Canadians stuck abroad during the first lock down around the world. As long as a person could avail themselves of a seat on an incoming flight a Canadian citizen or resident could return. Recently a new rule was introduced, that anyone boarding a flight to Canada must have a negative covid-19 test within 72 hours prior to boarding to be allowed to board.

On the other hand it is Canada that is not coping very well to the pandemic. So maybe DFAT is doing the right thing.

I think it depends. At least from what I've seen from most other countries, the problem is just a capacity/flight issue more than anything else.

Some airlines have started only booking what they can take rather than bumping people off of flights, etc..which was incredibly problematic for people planning to go back to Australia permanently as at that point they've already sold/given away or shipped whatever was left...

It certainly doesn't help when there are changes in the weekly allowable inbound passengers....

felixp21 wrote:Jamie, sadly Hawks-Doggies match in Tassie this year

My nephew and wife went thru quarantine in melbs, said it was fine, but I'm sure it's the luck of the draw.

I'm in the opposite boat to many, I am trying to get back home to China!! Still not allowed back, I haven't seen my wife and child (aged 6) for more than nine months grrrr
The alternative, getting my wife and child here, is just as bad, point-blank refusal by DFAT... despite my child having an Australian passport.

The Chinese consulate in Melbourne had given me a date of 28th March for an entry into the mainland, but they are now cautioning me that date is no longer set in stone

Even when I eventually get home, returning to Australia may not be possible for quite a while, which puts me in a bind as I need to work 40 days a year to keep my medical specialist qualifications.

That's tough Felix. I've many friends in similar positions and it's been a heartbreaking period of time.

HKG has cheap accommodation and mainland access from Shenzen? Could set yourself up here in the world's best wine market? You need residency of course but I thought you here for a period of time?

Polymer wrote:I think it depends. At least from what I've seen from most other countries, the problem is just a capacity/flight issue more than anything else.

Some airlines have started only booking what they can take rather than bumping people off of flights, etc..which was incredibly problematic for people planning to go back to Australia permanently as at that point they've already sold/given away or shipped whatever was left...

It certainly doesn't help when there are changes in the weekly allowable inbound passengers....

The problem is hotel quarantine caps. Most would be repatriated by now if a decisive quarantine process implemented. 300 seat aircraft have 20 or so passengers on board.

Did I read the government halved hotel quarantine caps on Friday? That's something I expect of a totalitarian regime. Deflect the real issues of systemic failure and introduce policy that points blame at repatriating Australians.

Quarantine staff in Sydney hotels are not all wearing masks my wife informs me. This is extraordinary! For starters, hotels are not the best facilities to quarantine as the air conditioning systems are not suitable. Odd, you are made to wear a mask on an aircraft, where the environmental system replaces 90% of cabin air every few minutes, the recirculated remainder goes through HEPA filters; yet no compulsory masks in quarantine hotels. Do cleaners wear hazmat suits?

What I've noted during COVID is a lot of leadership the world over doesn't make sound decisions in a fluid environment. Any policy needs to be creatively stress tested for loopholes. Many of Australia's policies have failed in this manner.

Anyways. Dan Murphy's is doing a roaring trade at the quarantine hotels. There's usually a million Australians abroad and now half are returning which will be a necessary economic boost in my view.

JamieBahrain wrote:Did I read the government halved hotel quarantine caps on Friday? That's something I expect of a totalitarian regime. Deflect the real issues of systemic failure and introduce policy that points blame at repatriating Australians.

Yes, that's correct, and a correct assessment of the situation. I cannot imagine how I would feel if I was stuck overseas with the federal government (and yes quarantine is the constitutional responsibility of the federal government) failing so miserably to get people home and blaming returned travellers, either directly or implicitly, for outbreaks from hotel quarantine. The fact that almost 12 months on we still have a piecemeal approach to international arrivals is shameful.

Imagine if we had a mass scale and non-porous quarantine system? Apart from bringing people home, how many backpackers/travellers would be willing to give up two weeks for a 12-month or two-year working/holiday visa in a relatively COVID-free enironment? How many international students would do a two-week isolation to be able to study in a relatively COVID-free enironment for 2, 3, 4 years?

It's a lazy and shocking failure (and a missed opportunity).

Cheers

Michael

PS Yes, I have a personal interest in getting international students back at Australian universities.

Yes but it’s ok to let in 2000 odd persons for the Aus Open Tennis..... mmm

wiggum wrote:Yes but it’s ok to let in 2000 odd persons for the Aus Open Tennis..... mmm

Bout to be cancelled
Cheers Craig

JamieBahrain wrote:

Polymer wrote:I think it depends. At least from what I've seen from most other countries, the problem is just a capacity/flight issue more than anything else.

Some airlines have started only booking what they can take rather than bumping people off of flights, etc..which was incredibly problematic for people planning to go back to Australia permanently as at that point they've already sold/given away or shipped whatever was left...

It certainly doesn't help when there are changes in the weekly allowable inbound passengers....

The problem is hotel quarantine caps. Most would be repatriated by now if a decisive quarantine process implemented. 300 seat aircraft have 20 or so passengers on board.

Did I read the government halved hotel quarantine caps on Friday? That's something I expect of a totalitarian regime. Deflect the real issues of systemic failure and introduce policy that points blame at repatriating Australians.

It isn't so much the hotel caps as much as it is just the weekly cap of incoming passengers which then translates into a specific number on each flight.
If they've booked 40 but now the flight can take 30, 10 people are bumped. Surely I didn't mean the plane physically couldn't take more people.....and yes, they just halved it the other day which is going to be incredibly problematic for people already planning to go as they'll get bumped now. I don't know if I'd say totalitarian but it is incredibly problematic..

I don't think there is anything wrong w/ the masks thing...There doesn't seem to be any evidence of spreading via air conditioning and masks aren't going to stop airborne viruses anyways..they're mainly going to protect from droplets...more so outbound than inbound.

For sure they should be figuring out how to repatriate AU citizens that are trying to come back with the intention of coming back permanently. Stranding your citizens and creating an unusual financial burden for them seems wrong. Flights are still expensive, and for awhile were even more so...plus quarantine and that seems like a crazy burden for citizens.

Polymer wrote:
It isn't so much the hotel caps as much as it is just the weekly cap of incoming passengers which then translates into a specific number on each flight.
If they've booked 40 but now the flight can take 30, 10 people are bumped. Surely I didn't mean the plane physically couldn't take more people.....and yes, they just halved it the other day which is going to be incredibly problematic for people already planning to go as they'll get bumped now. I don't know if I'd say totalitarian but it is incredibly problematic..

I don't think there is anything wrong w/ the masks thing...There doesn't seem to be any evidence of spreading via air conditioning and masks aren't going to stop airborne viruses anyways..they're mainly going to protect from droplets...more so outbound than inbound.

For sure they should be figuring out how to repatriate AU citizens that are trying to come back with the intention of coming back permanently. Stranding your citizens and creating an unusual financial burden for them seems wrong. Flights are still expensive, and for awhile were even more so...plus quarantine and that seems like a crazy burden for citizens.

Hotel caps and quarantine caps would go hand in hand so I'm not sure of a need to break the two down separately? More than one state goverment stating hotels their limitation on quarantine numbers. And you mentioned "capacity/flights" which is as clear as mud in an aviation context, as my airline had reduced capacity between 80-100% on Australian destinations. But you mean't something else- ok.

My quip on a totalitarian reaction by the Aussie government was based on my experience this past 12 months with a totalitarian government. Shallow COVID quarantine policy that was doomed to fail was corrected and blame shifted.

You don't think there's anything wrong with the mask scenario and nor does the NSW government. In my view, it's a quarantine hotel, and if the guard out front of the room isn't wearing a mask I have to wonder what precautions ( or lack of ) the cleaners have? Without debating the level of protection a mask may provide, to me, a quarantine hotel should be seen as safety-sensitive and it is a strange mindset that would probably lead to other lapses. Air conditioning studies may not be conclusive though enough of them are asking serious questions as to the suitability of hotels with some A/C systems as quarantine facilities. Even today, I think I read correctly albeit briefly, the Brisbane cluster involved folks catching COVID on the same floor as the infected person- close contact in the lobby or air conditioning. Very hard to find out what protective equipment cleaners using.

I agree on your last paragraph. I've seen folks use up all their savings trying to get home. So instead of arriving with some cash to set up with they've nothing- that cash was better off in our economy. Your requirement they come back permanently won't be the case for everyone. Though I'm sure a populist view of many. Some will bring money home, set up and the new post-COVID Australia may not provide opportunity. Off abroad again they may go-as is their right.

You certainly shouldn't expect creative thinking from an Australian government. Everything is seen through the prism of local politics, and playing to (and stoking) fears. The more redneck the state the more certain it is. And the rules! The sacrosanct state borders! Hilarious that Victoria's new 'traffic-light' system colours the whole of NSW orange (permit needed) - including the LGA of Eden Monaro, but the ACT is green. Eden Monaro lies between the ACT and the Vic border. How many cases have there been in Eden Monaro? None, of course - same as ACT. But, it's NSW mate! Honestly, it would make an intelligent person weep.

JamieBahrain wrote: You don't think there's anything wrong with the mask scenario and nor does the NSW government. In my view, it's a quarantine hotel, and if the guard out front of the room isn't wearing a mask I have to wonder what precautions ( or lack of ) the cleaners have? Without debating the level of protection a mask may provide, to me, a quarantine hotel should be seen as safety-sensitive and it is a strange mindset that would probably lead to other lapses. Air conditioning studies may not be conclusive though enough of them are asking serious questions as to the suitability of hotels with some A/C systems as quarantine facilities. Even today, I think I read correctly albeit briefly, the Brisbane cluster involved folks catching COVID on the same floor as the infected person- close contact in the lobby or air conditioning. Very hard to find out what protective equipment cleaners using.

Maybe but given the lack of evidence and relatively few issues, you don't tackle the remaining 5-10% of unproven possibilities as that would be exponentially more expensive to try to implement.

Australia has the issue fairly well under control...it isn't perfect but it isn't going to be and doesn't need to be. BTW, I'm not saying they shouldn't wear masks...If I were working at a quarantine hotel, even though the masks only offer minimal protection inbound, I'd still be wearing one. I think that is the smart thing to do.

In saying that, I'm excluding the whole getting citizens into the country thing..which I consider to be a total screwup.

JamieBahrain wrote: I agree on your last paragraph. I've seen folks use up all their savings trying to get home. So instead of arriving with some cash to set up with they've nothing- that cash was better off in our economy. Your requirement they come back permanently won't be the case for everyone. Though I'm sure a populist view of many. Some will bring money home, set up and the new post-COVID Australia may not provide opportunity. Off abroad again they may go-as is their right.

Well what I mean by coming back permanently...is I consider that the main issue as that is stranding Aussies abroad... Of course the lack of being able to see family if you're living overseas, etc is an issue but just a lesser one (IMO). My wife's biggest fear is that if something were to happen to family in AU, we'd have no way to get back in a reasonable amount of time.

I don't blame Australia's heavy handedness.....It is just what the government thinks is best and while quite painful for some, it has allowed most businesses to stay open and for the most part, life moving on as normal. On the flipside, you can basically come into the US without any tests, any quarantine, etc, that is definitely not the way to go either.

felixp21 wrote:Jamie, sadly Hawks-Doggies match in Tassie this year

My nephew and wife went thru quarantine in melbs, said it was fine, but I'm sure it's the luck of the draw.

I'm in the opposite boat to many, I am trying to get back home to China!! Still not allowed back, I haven't seen my wife and child (aged 6) for more than nine months grrrr
The alternative, getting my wife and child here, is just as bad, point-blank refusal by DFAT... despite my child having an Australian passport.

The Chinese consulate in Melbourne had given me a date of 28th March for an entry into the mainland, but they are now cautioning me that date is no longer set in stone

Even when I eventually get home, returning to Australia may not be possible for quite a while, which puts me in a bind as I need to work 40 days a year to keep my medical specialist qualifications.

This is terrible to hear felix. Very tough going for you.

I hope you get back home to your family soon mate.

In our local press here in Hong Kong, there are reports of wine formerly destined for the mainland, ending up in Hong Kong after CNY. Hong Kong is a terrific market for Aussie wine although prices aren't always as good as they should be considering zero duty and relatively easy logistics. $20 Aussie a bottle for Elderton Estate shiraz is an improvement and yesterday I bought Japer Hill Georgia's 2017 at $65 ( not bad should be better ).

I wonder if a lot of the wine destined for China, ends up In HKG and then finds its way into China anyways? Felix has presented the argument that borders have tightened though my friends in the business still suggesting a lot makes it north.

Polymer wrote:I don't blame Australia's heavy handedness.....It is just what the government thinks is best and while quite painful for some, it has allowed most businesses to stay open and for the most part, life moving on as normal. On the flipside, you can basically come into the US without any tests, any quarantine, etc, that is definitely not the way to go either.

I missed this Polymer. You seemed to have clarified your position rather nonchalantly from someone whose motoring along pretty much as normal?

The US was never on my flip-side. However, Australia's response was and many of the critical quarantine mistakes were unprofessional and lacked a simple stress test of fluid decision making. Gloom comes in threes. We've had natural disasters with the fires and a not so lethal pandemic. Our security situation is deteriorating and I don't feel Australian leadership nor the public are prepared for the decades ahead.