The Auswine Forum

Redback wrote:I took the opportunity to open a 2015 BP yesterday over a family BBQ. No notes taken but I thought it atypical example of a Rockford BP. No significant change to previous vintages for my taste. I find that Rockford produces a certain “house”, old school Barossa Shiraz. If you like the style, the TWF scores should not be an issue.

Hi Redback

Do you mean "atypical" or "a typical"?

Gotta love the English language.

Cheers

Hi Stomper,

Yes, there should have been a space in between - a typical. Pretty much met expectations for me. I would buy 2016 BP based on current vintage.

There are many great winemakers in the Barossa (Standish, Eperosa, Sami-Odi, Ruggabellus come to mind) that I enjoy and are deservingly getting the critics attention. It will be interesting to see if younger millennial drinkers will be attracted to this older Barossa style is the future.

Redback wrote: Yes, there should have been a space in between - a typical.

That reminds me of a joke I heard once: An older man and woman in the nursing home became an item and one day he proposed. She said yes, and coming up to the wedding day he asked a sensitive question, "Darling, what is your preference for, ahem, making love, dearest?" To which she replied, "I would like it infrequently".
"Thank you dearest, but just one small question....'infrequently', um, is that one word, or two?"

boom boom.

Always been good stuff when I have drunk it

Craig(NZ) wrote:Always been good stuff when I have drunk it

No one is denying its good, the question is, is the wine over hyped. It has the same cult status in some sectors as Wendouree.

rooman wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Always been good stuff when I have drunk it

No one is denying its good, the question is, is the wine over hyped. It has the same cult status in some sectors as Wendouree.

It's not overhyped in New Zealand that's for sure. Would more be considered a 'classic" rather than a "cult" over here

I don't buy it any more.... plenty of other (arguably) more interesting wines out there....

This is possibly a Pandora's Box but can you suggest some? I'm also a big fan of their Rifle Range so any idea on a similar cab sauv?

Lincoln wrote:I don't buy it any more.... plenty of other (arguably) more interesting wines out there....

I agree
I am Stonewaller with a key ring to boot
I haven’t purchased them in years
so many options currently

Yes, I have loved the wine for many years, and the romance of it.
Just about finished my stash of 2004s, which is a fantastic wine, 05 was good, 06 I didnt like much, 07 was a good representation of the year, 08 is just hitting its straps and I really like, 09 is good but a bit variable, 10 is brilliant, 11 is good on day 2, 12 needs time, and younger vintages I have not rated.

Craig(NZ) wrote:

rooman wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Always been good stuff when I have drunk it

No one is denying its good, the question is, is the wine over hyped. It has the same cult status in some sectors as Wendouree.

It's not overhyped in New Zealand that's for sure. Would more be considered a 'classic" rather than a "cult" over here

No I wasn't thinking it was overhyped in NZ, the question is: is it overhyped in Aus. Among the general public I would say yes. That is not to say it is not a good shiraz but there are clearly much better shiraz made in Aus which fly below the general radar. As a result they are off marked up far less than the hyped wines. For me a classic example is the Giaconda Warner shiraz, along with Castagna Gensis made nearby, is a more interesting wine. I would use the word "complex" but I am not going down that rabbit hole again. And yet in restaurants I see it marked up for far less than the Basket Press. A year or so back I had dinner at the Fat Duck pop up at the Crown. On the night the Giaconda was by far and a way the best value as the market up was less than 1x retail. By way of comparison the Basket Press was more expensive and yet cheaper at wholesale.

I don't know where they sourced their wines for the pop up..but it doesn't surprise me when they use BPs market value as the baseline for their markup...plus the fact that it is a recognizable name/label....I've seen a few places mark up against normal retail but the wine probably goes relatively quick as that puts it just above market value.

Does this mean the wine is overhyped? I don't know...it commands a higher market value for a reason...so retail store will sell it for more than CD...and restaurants will follow based on that...seems relatively normal...

For those people that aren't that interested in BP, it looks like it is overhyped...but people are drinking and enjoying the wine at those prices so it must be ok...I'd contrast this to wine that is often bought for hype but not actually consumed.

For the general public I wouldn't say that BP is overhyped..people really do enjoy the wine and it is a very good wine. I agree with you that it isn't as interesting as many other wines but for the generic public, that's not what they're looking for. BP for me fits in a very unusual spot..where objectively, I think the wine is very good and well made, but it is just completely uninteresting....

As I’ve said many times in other posts, I firmly believe BP needs 20 years to shine. ( It is simple when young).

At that age it absolutely smashes the ‘more interesting wines’ listed earlier. Now I understand some people don’t want to cellar wines for that long, but for me, there’s nothing liked an aged and complex BP. The 90and 91 are the two best Aussie wines I’ve had this year (and the list includes many heralded vintages of Grange and HoG)

Mike,

I've not had a 90/91 BP and the 20 year old ones I've tried have been good but I don't know if they were significantly better than younger ones...It isn't they are simple wines..they're just not very interesting wines...I have a hard time really understanding how that's possible as the wine is very well made and tastes perfectly fine...Nice fruit, good structure...everything in place.

But I find that if I had to describe the style...I find myself having a hard time doing it...other than: it is good at everything and great at nothing.

Mike Hawkins wrote:As I’ve said many times in other posts, I firmly believe BP needs 20 years to shine. ( It is simple when young).

At that age it absolutely smashes the ‘more interesting wines’ listed earlier. Now I understand some people don’t want to cellar wines for that long, but for me, there’s nothing liked an aged and complex BP. The 90and 91 are the two best Aussie wines I’ve had this year (and the list includes many heralded vintages of Grange and HoG)

+1 Mike, have about 6 bottles each of these two vintages, levels still base of neck, the last 91 two years ago at lunch at Fino was beautiful...just happened to be the birth year of the waitress...so she had a glass too.
Cheers
craig

Mike Hawkins wrote:As I’ve said many times in other posts, I firmly believe BP needs 20 years to shine. ( It is simple when young).

At that age it absolutely smashes the ‘more interesting wines’ listed earlier. Now I understand some people don’t want to cellar wines for that long, but for me, there’s nothing liked an aged and complex BP. The 90and 91 are the two best Aussie wines I’ve had this year (and the list includes many heralded vintages of Grange and HoG)

Mate, I am sitting on my only BP, being the 2004, for another 6 years based solely on your advice. Lawdy help you if the butterfly doesn't emerge in 2024

Wine is such a subjective thing. What floats someone's boat, causes frowns for others. My most disappointing bottle this year (in the context of expectations) was a Clonakilla SV. So disappointing that I think there is no way I would fork out my hard earned for the stuff ever again. I am sure however that there are a bunch of forumites who are big fans and buy and drink it religiously. Conversely my best wine experience for the year (so far) was - aptly for this thread - a 94 BP. It might have been the occasion, the company, the ... well anything, but it was gorgeous. Just keep drinking for yourself I say and don't get too fussed about needing to tell people that the wine they like wasn't to your taste. Tell them what you did enjoy and leave it at that.

-- George Krashos

George Krashos wrote:Wine is such a subjective thing. Just keep drinking for yourself I say and don't get too fussed about needing to tell people that the wine they like wasn't to your taste. Tell them what you did enjoy and leave it at that.

-- George Krashos

Quote of the DECADE on this forum.

I don't think any of the comments are meant to tell someone who liked a wine they shouldn't..or to tell someone that didn't like the wine that they should...

It is to provide data points, opinions and to prompt a discussion. Otherwise why bother having or being on a forum.

What the advice should be is you should be confident enough in your own opinion about a wine to not be threatened by the opinion of someone else about that wine.

Other people's opinion about a wine might lead you to try a wine (or not try)...but no one else's opinion should tell you whether you like a wine or how good of a wine you feel it is.

rooman wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As I’ve said many times in other posts, I firmly believe BP needs 20 years to shine. ( It is simple when young).

At that age it absolutely smashes the ‘more interesting wines’ listed earlier. Now I understand some people don’t want to cellar wines for that long, but for me, there’s nothing liked an aged and complex BP. The 90and 91 are the two best Aussie wines I’ve had this year (and the list includes many heralded vintages of Grange and HoG)

Mate, I am sitting on my only BP, being the 2004, for another 6 years based solely on your advice. Lawdy help you if the butterfly doesn't emerge in 2024

If you don’t like them then, I’ll buy them at release price!!

Polymer wrote:Mike,

I've not had a 90/91 BP and the 20 year old ones I've tried have been good but I don't know if they were significantly better than younger ones...It isn't they are simple wines..they're just not very interesting wines...I have a hard time really understanding how that's possible as the wine is very well made and tastes perfectly fine...Nice fruit, good structure...everything in place.

But I find that if I had to describe the style...I find myself having a hard time doing it...other than: it is good at everything and great at nothing.

I actually think many of them are simple/one dimensional in their youth and that’s why I no longer drink them young....

Mike Hawkins wrote:

Polymer wrote:Mike,

I've not had a 90/91 BP and the 20 year old ones I've tried have been good but I don't know if they were significantly better than younger ones...It isn't they are simple wines..they're just not very interesting wines...I have a hard time really understanding how that's possible as the wine is very well made and tastes perfectly fine...Nice fruit, good structure...everything in place.

But I find that if I had to describe the style...I find myself having a hard time doing it...other than: it is good at everything and great at nothing.

I actually think many of them are simple/one dimensional in their youth and that’s why I no longer drink them young....

Mike,

Could be...I'm definitely open to giving them a chance with more age...

It probably falls into the same bucket as Grosset PH and Wendouree....as in for me I have not yet found a Grosset PH that was really amazing although I'm sure at some point it'll happen...and for other people Wendouree just never hits the spot..

Been having a bit of a think about this thread and this wine...and seriously is any wine worth the fuss...or fussing over??
There are drivers for all of us, but any wine could be viewed by anyone as not worth the fuss.

If I look at the enjoyment I get from a few wineries from Coonawarra, there are punters here who strongly suggest many not worth the fuss...too expensive, too much vintage variation, too much oak, too much green, too much acid and so on, but guess I buy them because I enjoy them.
Time to knock this thread on the head.

Cheers Craig

Mike Hawkins wrote:

rooman wrote:

Mike Hawkins wrote:As I’ve said many times in other posts, I firmly believe BP needs 20 years to shine. ( It is simple when young).

At that age it absolutely smashes the ‘more interesting wines’ listed earlier. Now I understand some people don’t want to cellar wines for that long, but for me, there’s nothing liked an aged and complex BP. The 90and 91 are the two best Aussie wines I’ve had this year (and the list includes many heralded vintages of Grange and HoG)

Mate, I am sitting on my only BP, being the 2004, for another 6 years based solely on your advice. Lawdy help you if the butterfly doesn't emerge in 2024

If you don’t like them then, I’ll buy them at release price!!

I purchased them on the secondary auction market at $200 per bottle. Would be happy to swap for some decent vintage champagne if that helps.

phillisc wrote:Been having a bit of a think about this thread and this wine...and seriously is any wine worth the fuss...or fussing over??
There are drivers for all of us, but any wine could be viewed by anyone as not worth the fuss.

If I look at the enjoyment I get from a few wineries from Coonawarra, there are punters here who strongly suggest many not worth the fuss...too expensive, too much vintage variation, too much oak, too much green, too much acid and so on, but guess I buy them because I enjoy them.
Time to knock this thread on the head.

Cheers Craig

If the forum ever gets to the point where we can't be critical about wines or have a viewpoint from multiple sides about a particular wine, then it should just die.

What you and a couple of others have suggested is completely against what a forum is about...Obviously there needs to be some rules and moderation in the discussion and fair enough if it is getting out of hand...but we all know a lot less about wine than we think and having a one sided discussion isn't a good way to learn anything...

Polymer wrote:

phillisc wrote:Been having a bit of a think about this thread and this wine...and seriously is any wine worth the fuss...or fussing over??
There are drivers for all of us, but any wine could be viewed by anyone as not worth the fuss.

If I look at the enjoyment I get from a few wineries from Coonawarra, there are punters here who strongly suggest many not worth the fuss...too expensive, too much vintage variation, too much oak, too much green, too much acid and so on, but guess I buy them because I enjoy them.
Time to knock this thread on the head.

Cheers Craig

If the forum ever gets to the point where we can't be critical about wines or have a viewpoint from multiple sides about a particular wine, then it should just die.

What you and a couple of others have suggested is completely against what a forum is about...Obviously there needs to be some rules and moderation in the discussion and fair enough if it is getting out of hand...but we all know a lot less about wine than we think and having a one sided discussion isn't a good way to learn anything...

Gee whiz, what an informed and educated response, got out of bed on the wrong side this morning did we

Who are the couple of others, and I know what the forum is about, I been here for 8 years with 1700 posts! Never suggested that one can't be critical, and my discussions aren't generally one sided, but a thread at nearly 5 pages on one wine...might be time to have a debate on something else
Yes BP is worth the fuss, but really so what.

What is the next wine will that will be fussed over...Run Rig, Mt Edelstone??

Don't take yourself too seriously, I certainly don't
Cheers Craig

What is wrong with a 5 page thread? I don't understand what you're advocating here...
What difference does it mean which wine is fussed over? What is wrong w/ the discussion? 5 pages means at least some people were interested in talking about it...

It certainly beats 5 pages of why X wine is now a too expensive and and how it was bought for a lot less 10 years ago...

You keep it going then. 5 pages on any wine is certainly enough for me. I'm not advocating anything, BP is great, we all know that.
Hell even Jamie and I in our Henschke spats can't sustain a thread for that long

As for price, I am sure you have though that a decade ago you should have got more of a particular wine, or that it was better VFM....or perhaps price is never on your radar.

There are some wines that are too expensive, for me anyway. Perhaps alright for those with really deep pockets, pay whatever you like, feel good about it. Might even be cheaper 10 years on, who knows??

Anyway nuff said.
Cheers craig

Some odd responses here and perhaps that's what the Wine Front guys alluding to about the cult of Rockford. I'm dealing with my South Australian wife at the moment, in a tantrum because I've not bought the annual Sparkling Black buy as I'm worried about brett in tasting notes and need to try before I buy. First time for Rockfords - I'm an inaugural Stonewaller long time member and though not South Australian, have Rockford dear to my heart and have spread the love over the years.

I agree with Polymer.

Other considerations are what may be happening at Rockford is no different to similar elsewhere in the world. Bruno Giacosa for instance. Started with a great winemaker who helped build a region, his success a catalyst for a number of bumps in succession planning, including, and how relevant is this point to Rockford, the loss of great vineyard sites as families explore their own labels or vineyards sold. It's identical to Rockford in so many ways and an intriguing discussion. Where's Helbig, where's Flaxman etc same as Santo Stefano & San Cristoforo.

What is the next wine will that will be fussed over...Run Rig, Mt Edelstone??

Hahahahha you're jesting with us Phil? Your obsession with Henschke could run into the longest thread on auswine. And I tell you what, what if the current BP has been called out as Jeremy Oliver did the 98 Mt Ed?

This is a fantastic thread and I've learnt a lot. Especially Mike's convictions which have me holding earlier stock for the long term now- especially magnums.

Is BP worth the fuss?
Not so far for me, but i don't have the experience with the wine at 20+ years, an important caveat.
Interestingly, the only BP that has stood out was a 98 drunk maybe 5 years ago.

Is Rockford worth the fuss?
Most def. Absolutely love the place, its more than the wine sold. Only list i've intentionally stayed on. I even include a few BPs every year as its generally a decent wine and i can enjoy it regardless of any fuss (plus it makes great gifts )