Hunter Valley Semillon + Age = Awesome-o

[Jay60A]

Having one of those palate discovery periods. In the last few months Mt Pleasant Elizabeth 2005 and an own-brand McWilliams HV semillion (2006) have both hit UK supermarkets. . I have tried HV Semillon before ... including VAT 1 ... always too young I now know, so quality, but tough going.

With age what can I say - WOW. A few years bottle age and this is p*ssing over all but the very best Aussie Rieslings - and here I'm talking Grossets, Seppelt Drumborg, Crawford River, I know my Aussie rizzers. The amount of flavour and breadth packed into a feather-weight 10% HV Semillon beggars belief, the intensity, acid line, and we're talking a 6-7 pound wine with 5 years bottle age .

I'm left in no doubt the best HV semillon can be world class at it's peak. A lot of VAT 1 and similar may start to enter my cellar ... I have been enjoying the new cool climate Chardies recently but this is in another league. Hopefully it stays unfashionable but I think it's on the up.

Any suggestions to benchmark HV - VAT 1 (nat.), McWilliams, Tyrells, Meeara Park Hellhole ...?

Maybe HV is like Burgundy ... you need to be 40 to get it?

[phillisc]

Jay, could not agree more.
when I am not drinking riesling, semillon is the other white ( i only ever buy these 2 varieties)
Found some 06 Mt Pleasant here for $11....fantastic.

Cheers Craig.

[cuttlefish]

Maybe add Peter Lehmann "Margaret" Semillon to that list you have...

I totally get what you're saying though. Good Hunter semillon is just so satisfying. Beautiful delicacy across the palate.

Around these parts (Sydney) there's still a little of the 1998 Vat 1 floating around, and that is hard to go past. It's only just hitting it's drinking window, I think, and if well cellared, probably another 10 years to go, maybe more.

Rothbury Estate have a reservish one called "Gerry Sissingh Selection" which I think is very good.
Draytons "Suzanne"
Tyrrells Belford and Stevens both good
De Bortoli "Murphy's Vineyard"
The McGuigan Bin 9000 is typically hard to beat QPR

Outside of Hunter, but still in NSW, have a look at Coolangatta Estate (South Coast), and Chalkers Crossing (Hilltops/Tumbarumba)

[Sean]

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[Polymer]

Almost all of Tyrrell's semillon will be great.
VAT 1
Stevens
Johnno
HVD
Belford

Aged VAT 1 is FANTASTIC. It also takes a LONG time to age.

Meerea Park Alexander Munro and Terracotta Semillon are great. They also only release it after it has 5 years of age.
Thomas Braemore
Lovedale
Pokolbin Estate

There are some other great semillons..most of them age nicely in 5 years or so....The ones that go 10+ are really fantastic and I agree, if people really understood it, I think it would really grow in popularity....which is why I think places should not even bother releasing them until they're 5+ years of age...

Going back to the OP's Elizabeth...Great value if it ages right..but I've had some I think 2002 and it was just pure acid..I'm not sure what happened there...

[Thommo]

there is quite a bit of what I take to be cleanskin 2005 elizabeth getting about the traps at the moment. I bought a case a few weeks back, and the case came labelled with the business address of McWilliams Mt Pleasant, but a different company name. Very good and $10 a bottle. I suspect export orders are shrinking and storerooms are getting fuller.

[Jay60A]

I was wondering if the Sainsburys-own brand wine is a cleanskin Mt Pleasant Elizabeth 2006, as they also sold a small parcel of Mt Pleasant Elizabeth 2005 recently.

No proof, but it's very noice. Very unusual to see an aged own-brand wine like this ...

[daver6]

I purchased some of the 2004 Elizabeth cleanskin from the cellar door. They told me it was excess stock they had for Qantas. Either way...was a bargain

[orpheus]

+1 for the Lovedale Semillon.

A bottle of 1986 that I had in 2001 stands out as one of the great wine taste experiences I have had, red or white.

[Brucer]

Hi Jay,
I opened a 2001 Tyrrells Vat 1 earlier today with lunch. Bit tart, and not a lot of length. It showed its age on the nose.
I only just finished the bottle at home, and its a nice wine, but I have had better. The 05 is fantastic.
I only have a couple of vintages left under cork. Semillon suffers under cork.

I actually prefer McWilliams Lovedale. I think its the ducks guts in semillon. Far superior to Elizabeth. Try an 05, if you can find one. The 01s are amazing, but have massive cork problems.
I still have some 96 and 98s. Yummo.
Good years for Hunter sems are 05 and 09.

Others to look at are
Meerea Park Alexander Munro semillon. 04 is brilliant, and 05 also.
Meerea Park Terracotta , equally amazing.
The Hellhole is very good, I have 08 and 09s, but the other 2 are a good bit superior.
McGuigan Bin 9000 2007. This wine takes the record for the most bottles of any wine I have ever bought. 9 dozen. Cost around $12. I still have dozens.
Made by Neil McGuigan, who is a great sem maker.

I got over chards years ago, along with riesling, as I find it is too sweet. I hate wood in whites.
My cellar only has semillon in it for whites.

Also good is
Keith Tulloch. Current vintage is too sweet , but some earlier ones are good.
Tyrrells have a few single vinyard sems, HVD, Stevens and Belford. These are very good at sell for about $20 here on sale. They have been releasing them at 5 years of age recently to the trade.
I am a member of Tyrrells Club, which allows you to buy Vat 1 and other new releases when they are bottled. They are then released to the trade 5 years later. Its cheaper to buy early.
Thomas Wines are also worth buying. Braemore is the one. He has only just started to release some old stuff at high prices.
Braemore is a vineyard, and a good few great sems come from there. Some Meerea Park ones also.

If you get hold of a few Lovedale, then that will get you started.

I dont think 06 Elizabeth is a very good example.

cheers
Bruce

[Brucer]

The most amazing semillon I have had was a a 84 Lovedale.
I am not into food and wine matches, but one night at my favourite chinese restaurant, we had seafood in black bean sauce, and a 1995 Lindemans Bin Hunter semillon, and I then understood what the fuss was all about. I went a week later, with another bottle, ordered the same dish, and it just was not the same, it did not happen.

[Jay60A]

Thanks for all the reccos guys. I suspect a serious investigation of top australian Semillon is overdue on my part.

In terms of what has hit the UK, the 2005 VAT 1 hasn't been stocked yet (if it ever will, sometimes vintages get skipped) but three really good starting points seem to be -

Tyrells Belford 2005
McWilliams Lovedale 2005
Tyrells VAT 1 2002 and 1999 (sounds like the "Daddy")

I can see these wines would be a "challenging" for the average consumer though. I think if I serve it to non-wino friends they'll drink it politely but wished I had served a MOR chardy.

[Sean]

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[GraemeG]

A possible explanation for 'generic' bottlings of Elizabeth might be the screwcap. The first Elizabeth under screwcap was the 04, and I recall Houn Hooke writing at the time that McWilliams found themselves with an unusual problem on their hands. They always used a 'light-box inspection' on all stocks of Elizabeth at labelling time (just prior to release), weeding out by colour those wines they anticipated would be below par; some ludicrous 20-30% reject rate, or similar.
With the cork now gone, they had that much more wine to sell...
Perhaps they've got more Elizabeth than they know what to do with?
cheers,
GG

[cuttlefish]

A possible explanation for 'generic' bottlings of Elizabeth might be the screwcap. The first Elizabeth under screwcap was the 04, and I recall Houn Hooke writing at the time that McWilliams found themselves with an unusual problem on their hands. They always used a 'light-box inspection' on all stocks of Elizabeth at labelling time (just prior to release), weeding out by colour those wines they anticipated would be below par; some ludicrous 20-30% reject rate, or similar.
With the cork now gone, they had that much more wine to sell...
Perhaps they've got more Elizabeth than they know what to do with?
cheers,
GG

...enter: Cellar door!
It's not unusual to find cheap cases...

[orpheus]

Thanks for all the reccos guys. I suspect a serious investigation of top australian Semillon is overdue on my part.

In terms of what has hit the UK, the 2005 VAT 1 hasn't been stocked yet (if it ever will, sometimes vintages get skipped) but three really good starting points seem to be -

Tyrells Belford 2005
McWilliams Lovedale 2005
Tyrells VAT 1 2002 and 1999 (sounds like the "Daddy")

I can see these wines would be a "challenging" for the average consumer though. I think if I serve it to non-wino friends they'll drink it politely but wished I had served a MOR chardy.

Nail their feet to the floor and force Lovedale down their throats until their used to it. They'll be pretty cross with you for a while, but after the 5th bottle, they'll thank you for it .

[rwatkins]

Here in Canada we have the 2003 Vat 1. It went up in price $20 compared to the 2000. Is it worth buying? As a side note, Rick Burge makes an amazing Semillon from Barossa that can age for years as well. Half the price of Vat 1!!

[Waiters Friend]

+1 for the Lovedale Semillon.

A bottle of 1986 that I had in 2001 stands out as one of the great wine taste experiences I have had, red or white.

I'm with orpheus. The 1986 Lovedale is the greatest Australian white wine I have ever consumed, and I have had over a dozen, over 10+ years, with friends (including those in the wine fraternity). Not one corked bottle, and a sublime drinking experience.

There's one left in the cellar, now 25 years old. Will I need an occasion to drink it, or will drinking it be the occasion?

Cheers

Allan

[Mahmoud Ali]

Rwatkins,

Where in Canada are you and what is the 2003 Vat 1 "up $20" to? Haven't seen any Vat 1's in Edmonton.

Cheers.......................Mahmoud

[Mahmoud Ali]

The oldest Semillon for me was a 1986 Tyrrell's HVD that I found at a bottle shop in Sydney. It was very nice in 2010.

Not much in the way of Hunter Semillon where I live in Canada though recently I've seen some Brokenwood.

Mahmoud

[Mahmoud Ali]

Brucer wrote:

"I got over chards years ago, along with riesling, as I find it is too sweet. I hate wood in whites.
My cellar only has semillon in it for whites."

Odd remark if I may say so. Overwooded Chardonnay was a hallmark of many early Australian Chardonnays and that spawned another beast in the form of unwooded Chardonnay, an ill-conceived fad that has thankfully run it's course. Well made Chardonnay tend to be a bit more expensive but is well worth it.

Funny that you should say that Riesling is "too sweet" as most Australian Rieslings are very dry and cellar very well. And they aren't wooded. In my books a good cellar should have Riesling and Chardonnay as well as Semillon. Remember, tastes change and evolve. One day someone will serve you an aged Riesling and you might regret having ignored them. I've seen it before, even with so-called "sweet" German Rieslings.

Cheers......................Mahmoud.

[Brucer]

Mahmoud
I did buy a lot of rieslings in the 80s and cellared them, and didnt like what I was tasting. I have been told before that if I love semillon, then I should love riesling. Sorry, but the answer to that is no.
It is the flavour profile, kerosine is not my thing. Probably its the austere profile of Hunter semillon that has got me. Some say that semillon is the red wine drinkers white wine, and I would agree with that.
The old story, if everybody liked the same thing....... There may be some terrific rieslings out there now, but I have stopped looking. I suppose one finds what they like eventually, and stick to drinking that.
cheers
bruce

[orpheus]

+1 for the Lovedale Semillon.

A bottle of 1986 that I had in 2001 stands out as one of the great wine taste experiences I have had, red or white.

I'm with orpheus. The 1986 Lovedale is the greatest Australian white wine I have ever consumed, and I have had over a dozen, over 10+ years, with friends (including those in the wine fraternity). Not one corked bottle, and a sublime drinking experience.

There's one left in the cellar, now 25 years old. Will I need an occasion to drink it, or will drinking it be the occasion?

Cheers

Allan

I'll help you make it an occasion .

[dingozegan]

that spawned another beast in the form of unwooded Chardonnay, an ill-conceived fad that has thankfully run it's course

There are some pretty good unwooded Chardonnays in the world (and by unwooded I mean not showing significant oak flavour - whether that's due to being aged in "neutral"/old wood or not in oak at all), but perhaps there aren't too many good unwooded Aussie Chards(?).

Some say that semillon is the red wine drinkers white wine, and I would agree with that.

That's interesting. If I had to pick a red drinker's white variety, I would have said it was Chardonnay.

I suppose one finds what they like eventually, and stick to drinking that.

I find it rewarding to continually try different wines (including coming back to producers/labels/styles/varieties I haven't tried for a long time, or never liked), as well as drinking what I know I like. There's a whole world of wine out there, and even a lifetime won't be enough to explore it all.

[Thread drift over]

[sjw_11]

I always though Viognier was the red wine drinkers whites because the phenolics are most reminiscent of tannin structure?

[Teisto]

I love Semillon as well but haven't bought as much lately due to the wife not overly liking it - it's bad enough sneaking the riesling in.

I have a couple of bottles left of 1993 Tyrrels Vat 1 - was going to leave them to the 20 years - does anyone know what the vintage was like? I can't seem to find any info.

[sjw_11]

According to Mr Halliday, who website I recommend for its back log of tasting notes, the 1993 Vat 1 is as follows:
Full, glowing yellow-green; a complex bouquet, toasty with hints of spice; a supple and delicate array of flavours on the palate which are starting to sing. Between the time it was first tasted in 1995 and late 1997 had developed out of all recognition, and will go on from here.
Rating 95 Drink 2008 Date Tasted Oct 97

[Mahmoud Ali]

Dingozegan,

I agree that there are many Chardonnays that show little oak, but they are different from those that have seen no oak at all. There are some good un-oaked Chardonnays that have seen no oak at all but they are few and far between.

I'm am not at all convinced that Semillon is the red wine drinker's white wine. In the rest of the world it would not be the case at all. To me, based on the writings of Hugh Johnson, Jancis Robinson, Len Evans, James Halliday, etc. I would say that Chardonnay and Riesling are the "red wine" drinker's white wine.

Cheers............mahmoud.

[Brucer]

Semillon..red drinkers white wine....
Oh boy, now I am going to have to find where I read that, and who wrote it.

My experience with 93 Vat 1 has not been good. It was a few years ago, and it ended up at auction. More controversial comments !!
Bruce

[dlo]

The most amazing semillon I have had was a 84 Lovedale.

I bought 2 dozen of this in two seperate stages. The first case was remarkable. Every bottle sublime with the sexiest lemon butter character imaginable. I was so impressed, I ordered another case from my local merchant. I opened 4 bottles, one after the other - every bottle was oxidised! The entire case was mostly likely stuffed and my money was refunded. Subsequently, I bought the odd bottle from auction but never had much luck (most likely corks and/or provenance). Over the years, McWilliams have delivered some of the worst cork problems I've come across. Moving to screwcap was, IMHO, a top idea but some of the "purists" in the Hunter reckon the wine's will develop differently (i.e not as well) in the long term. We'll just have to wait and see on that one.

Perhaps my best semillon of all time was Lindemans Hunter River Chablis 1970 Bin 3875, a wine that powered through the 1990's with remarkable freshness and sublime complexity. My last bottle purchased circa late 90's with the "classic release" label for some extremely high price for the time - perhaps $50-60, IIRC, was still in amazing condition but, incredibly, was ullaged almost 10cm from the bottom of the cork! The back label was festooned with more Championships and Trophys won at major Australian Wine Shows than you could poke a stick at.

To complete the trifecta for my best three, I would include Tyrrell's Vat 1 1986.