Salesman Gripe

[Mark]

I've been a lurker for a nine months now, it's interesting to know about the world of wine from other peoples point of view and tastes. I haven't joined a forum personally because I'm really not confident in wine just yet (a bit shy too). Every now and then I get fired up (three times now) about somethings in the world of wine (really just the service). And I really have no one to gripe to about wine issues, that is none of my friends/family are really into wine, and I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem:

Last night I went to Dan Murphy's store and for the first time I've decided to ask about the price matching/beat any price policy. From Torbs web site Majella Cabernet 2001 was $28.50 from Wine Bizz and at Dan murphys (in Melbourne) $38. Wine Bizz also had several other wines of interest that were cheaper too, Orlando Lawsons Shiraz 1998, Bowen Estate Shiraz, Mount Langi Shiraz, etc... The conversation went:

Consumer: "Hi I was wondering about your policy to match/beat the price of any wine."

Sales assistant: "Yes but you'll have to have the advert with you."

Consumer: "Sure, I have it here."

Sales assistant: "It has to be from today."

Consumer: "I got it from the internet today, the dates on the bottom."

Sales assistant: "I'll have to talk to the manager"

Consumer: "Ok thanks. "

Sales assistant "No sorry this is for Sydney"

(Being in Melbourne)

Consumer: "They do deliver to Melbourne."

Sales assistant: "Well it also states by the dozen, so you'll have to buy a dozen of each that you want."

Consumer: I turned to the page "But it says mixed dozen?"

Sales assistant: "Well are you going to buy a dozen then?"

Consumer: "Not a problem"

Sales assistant: Grumble Grumble

In the end it shows that persistance won the day, although I still felt like I got the short end of the stick. But I must say it's not Dan Murphys Just the sales assistant. The manager wasn't bad about it though I just think that the sales assistant was rude.

I also asked very politely about the Devils lair 2001 Cabernet, they had it for sale at a Dan murphys across town but only the 2000 was on the shelf. The sales assistant gave said "Yes we do but I'm not going to get it unless you buy the box." I said that I may buy the box but would like to buy one to try before I considered it. Response from sales assistant "NO" . In the past other sales assistants have but I think that he was just pissed off.

Overall I don't think it's good practice to piss of customers, especially since the last time I looked at my wine inventory spreadsheet I calculated that majority of my purchases $6,175 was from Dan murphys from 2003-present (Out of interest Wineries $1,638 and other misc. bottle shops $3,616). But as I said it really wasn't Dan Murphy's just this Sales assistant. In the past I've had some great service from some of the Dan Murphys people, and I have been recognised as a good loyal customer.

Thanks for the gripe

Mark.

[Red Bigot]

Mark,

I had a similar problem not long after DM opened in Canberra. I conveyed the details of my experience via the DM feedback page on their web site and two days later had an apologetic phone call from the local manager (it was actually him causing the offence). I've not had a problem there since and the local Fine Wine Manager is always helpful in getting stock from other branches, rain check if they don't have the advertised vintage, etc.

Don't just let it slide or gripe on the forum(s), let them know they have a problem with someone in that store and then let us know the result.

[TORB]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to the forum and gripe as much as you like, its good to get it off your chest.

The reaction of the sales person is amazing! You would think the money was coming out of his pocket. At the prices you mentioned, they would still be making money on the deal, not just quite as much.

As Brian suggested, use the system and complain. If people put up with it, the poor service will just continue.

[radioactiveman]

Welcome to the forum and gripe as much as you like, its good to get it off your chest.

The reaction of the sales person is amazing! You would think the money was coming out of his pocket. At the prices you mentioned, they would still be making money on the deal, not just quite as much.

As Brian suggested, use the system and complain. If people put up with it, the poor service will just continue.

Totally agree. I would have asked to speak to the manager directly and comment on this persons behaviour, and pointed out how much you buy from them. If no joy there, go up the ladder. Works 9 times out of 10. Don't let some rude wanker stand in the way of what you're entitled to.

Cheers

Jamie

[Sean]

deleted

[Mark S]

My own experiences with Dan Murphy's (Melbourne outlets) have frequently been the retail equivalent of guerilla warfare - often the bottle on the shelf is an inferior vintage to the one advertised - "no, we don't transfer wine between stores" "then could you tell me which stores have the advertised vintage?" - "sorry, we're not set up for that, you'll need to contact the stores individually" I've come in the very day that the specials are first advertised to be told "sorry, that wine sold out very quickly" "will you be getting more?" " can't say for sure, may be some weeks on (ie no longer on special)" I've had the fine wine salesperson/manager flatly refuse to sell me more than a 6-pack of a particularly desirable wine on special (D'berg Dead Arm) I've specifically rung to ask that a box of a particular vintage be put aside, to find at pickup that it's the wrong year, though I've been assured it's the year I requested, etc etc. Their prices for "cellar releases" are often a joke (eg Henschke Keyneton 1997 for $50, or Wynns Cab 97 for $35)

DM's Thursday specials have dumbed down the past year or two, by and large it's commercial dross now, however, if you keep your eyes peeled, you can sometimes score amazing bargains (eg the 2 or 3 times a year 12 for the price of 10 sales)
Having said that, it's not realistic to expect that a chain based on minimum pricing is going to provide high levels of service - if you want that, establish a relationship with a specialist fine wine retailer. Meantime, I arm myself with competitors' sale prices, web research, flak jacket, etc & make the occasional foray into the DM battle zone.

[Mark]

Thanks guys,

I will be sending a feedback to Dan murphys and I'll tell you how it goes. It's not the first time I've had a bit of indifference at Dan Murphys. Mined you I have had some good experiences with some friendly help from some of the sales people from Dan Murphys. It's probably a few rotten eggs in the place that can ruin good business practices. I couldn't really find and terms and conditions on their policy of we'll beat any advertised price on their web site and am left wondering if their sales people are told to avoid giving out discounts. And thanks for the best buys information on your web sites Torb + Red Bigot.

Cheers Mark

[Sean]

deleted

[Guest]

Now all I have to do is get over my hang-up with credit cards

Sean,

If your concern is credit cards and the Internet there are a couple of cards that have protection policies for purchasing over the internet. Grab one of those with a lower limit and use that.

Murray

[Mark S]

agree with much of what you write, you've clearly been around the Melbourne wine retail scene for some years. I have low expectations of most retailers, so am rarely disappointed. The one thing that truly gives serious wine shoppers the shits is buying Wine A at X dollars (usually by the case) then finding it at X - 25% dollars somewhere else a few days later. My epiphany in this regard was a cellar door experience many years ago when I was young & green - while doing a tour of the Yarra Valley, popped in to Coldstream Hills CD, liked their chardonnay, bought a case at ~ $25/bottle, only to find it at Dan's the following week on special for $15/bottle. $120 a case difference! You never forget an experience like that. As a result, I now do lots of research, take a keen interest in wine auctions, and am not afraid to press for special deals, price matching & similar at whatever outlet I shop at. There will always be lots more great wine, regardless of how highly some particular wine has been praised by the critics, so always be prepared to walk away if you feel you're not getting a good deal.

[JamieBahrain]

Once upon a time I purchased a couple of cases from Dan's monthly off the internet.

I stopped for two reasons.

Firstly, as a regular internet customer was promised a six pack of Cullens Cabernet Merlot prior to release by three members of the sales team. Missed the mail order window, was reassured by the sales team I had a six pack, but they all of a sudden reneged.

Secondly, the bigger Dan Murphy gets the crappier and sameness the offers become.

[Guest]

The more I see of the two big chains in all their various retail forms, the more I am in awe of their ability to hoodwink the large mass of liquor consumers that they are the cheapest place to buy.

Sometimes they are but mainly on specials. The amount they can move at normal retail prices with big margins and the pitance they pay the check out type staff they employ means we should get out and buy shares in their companies but go elsewhere for our wine.

Thank goodness there are still a handful of REAL independents out there (Auswine included), I'll patronise them every time even if it costs me a dollar here or there to do so, and it normally doesn't anyway.

Take action, you're intelligent wino's, vote with your and keep out of their stores full of dross.

[Guest]

Why not reward the shop that had the better price in the first place?

[David]

I don't waste my time going all the way to D.M. Like most of you have said mostly the crappy wines are cheap BUT if you want the decent or premium wines you would expect to pay more than the independently owned stores (This is my observation). One of D.M. selling 1996 Grange for $450 per bottle (I paid $260) and the Magnum for almost $2000 (I paid $900 from Fig Tree Cellars @Lane Cove when the shop was just before the hand over to Woolies)!!! Are they kidding???
I hope Mr C...... read this and realise how Woolies are ripping off the consumers.

Anyway Happy Drinking to all forum readers!

PS. I am here to share the experience of wines that I drink and enjoy

[TORB]

Are they kidding???
I hope Mr C...... read this and realise how Woolies are ripping off the consumers.

Mr C doesn't give a continental fig about his customers, his concern is with returns to his shareholders. If they cared about their customers, their service people at head office would respond to letters of complaint.

$260 was a good price for the 96 Grange and that was 3 years ago so an increase would be expected but $450 is directed to the mugs who want 96 Grange cause its from a good year and don't give a flying you know what about the cost.

[GraemeG]

Thanks guys,

Mined you I have had some good experiences with some friendly help from some of the sales people from Dan Murphys. It's probably a few rotten eggs in the place that can ruin good business practices.

Cheers Mark

That sounds more like a few good eggs doing their best to ruin bad business practices!

cheers,
Graeme

[Guest]

Why not reward the shop that had the better price in the first place?

That's right. However, that doesn't mean DM can fudge their so-called price matching policy.

BTW in the DM ad in today's newspaper the Majella Shiraz is $29.90. An amazing co-incidence.

Guest 2.

[Woody]

Why not reward the shop that had the better price in the first place?

I find it quite bizarre that consumers are willing go out of their way (ie bringing in advertisements, hassling store staff etc) to reward DM's with a purchase when in the first instance they are not the cheapest. DMÂ’s are not driving the price low with their matching policy, it is the other stores that actually advertise a cheaper price. My line of thinking is that DMs are cashing in on other storeÂ’s marketing strategy.

The one way to encourage and promote cheaper wine is to reward the store that has the guts to offer wine cheaper than anyone else.

It appears that people have a loyalty to DMs that is built on poor service and a price matching policy that staff donÂ’t particularly encourage. Well done to the DM marketing staff. Gav, you should consider head hunting one of those guys.

[Red Bigot]

Woody,

Although I generally agree with your comments and support the smaller independents as much as I can, the reasons I sometimes still do price matches at DM are:
The cheapest store doesn't necessarily have good service or may charge freight at high rates.
DM in Canberra will usually honour advertised prices for less than case purchases (may have changed, haven't tried recently) and haven't factored freight in the times I've bought on a match.
Convenience.

I also see it as a way of making sure they honour their policy and for reducing their profits....

[Guest]

I find it quite bizarre that consumers are willing go out of their way (ie bringing in advertisements, hassling store staff etc) to reward DM's with a purchase when in the first instance they are not the cheapest. DMÂ’s are not driving the price low with their matching policy, it is the other stores that actually advertise a cheaper price. My line of thinking is that DMs are cashing in on other storeÂ’s marketing strategy.

You might be onto something there. Is it possible this is how DM likes things to be? As the big guy it can afford to run price wars and force smaller independents to cut margins to get people in their stores. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't shop around, does it? I mean a store that advertises a cheap price might be just as bad with customer service, etc. The tactic to hook in customers with specials is an old one. Obviously it's better to build up a relationship with a retailer you can trust.

DM has been around for a long time now. Customer service, etc seems to run hot and cold and that might be just the reality of retailing and what all retailers have to keep on top of. In that respect it is much easier for a small retailer to keep a hand on customer satisfaction and not just the till. Maybe it's more important that you can criticize a retailer, which I think is called customer feedback. The ultimate step of course is that you go to someone else - just hoping there will always be someone else!

Guest 2.

[Gavin Trott]

But I like to roam the city. I like checking out bottleshops (and going to tastings) much like I regularly head down to the Mornington Peninsula or across to Yarra Valley for the day. Maybe the internet is a variation on that idea, and I think it might well turn out as the best, vigorous competitor for the likes of Dan Murphy’s. Winery websites, retail websites and forums like this are feeding places (or is that drinking holes?) for roaming wine buyers like me. Service is a big factor too – a prompt and capable attitude, interesting wines, a well-managed website, good, efficient transport and so on. Does any of this sound familiar here? Now all I have to do is get over my hang-up with credit cards and Gavin’s got himself another rabid customer.

Hey, I'm great to talk to on the phone too!!

[Gavin Trott]

The more I see of the two big chains in all their various retail forms, the more I am in awe of their ability to hoodwink the large mass of liquor consumers that they are the cheapest place to buy.

Sometimes they are but mainly on specials. The amount they can move at normal retail prices with big margins and the pitance they pay the check out type staff they employ means we should get out and buy shares in their companies but go elsewhere for our wine.

Thank goodness there are still a handful of REAL independents out there (Auswine included), I'll patronise them every time even if it costs me a dollar here or there to do so, and it normally doesn't anyway.

Take action, you're intelligent wino's, vote with your and keep out of their stores full of dross.

Don't now how much I should buy into this topic as a competitor (albeit microscopic), but I've toured my local Quaffers a few times, floor specials can be great, sometimes less than I can buy the wine for

However, touring the rest of the stores and the racks, I'm cheaper almost always.

If shopping, beware of loss leaders getting you in, to find higher prices elsewhere.

(That said, some of the loss leaders can be great value).

[Guest]

it is much easier for a small retailer to keep a hand on customer satisfaction and not just the till.

Yep, that was a bit freudian. Anyway it might rocket up the hits on Gavin's forum on Google searches.

[Mark]

To end the story I went to the other Dan Murphys (Vermont) and as soon as I walked in the manager and one of the sales assistants from the fine wine section welcomed me before I could get through the door.

Also had a glass in my hand by the time I got through the door and wine to boot!

They're great guys down in Vermont and a bit out of the way compared to the Forrest hill Dan Murphys, however worth the welcome if you ask me.

It makes me wonder that I go to the Forrest hill DM more frequently and I am more well recognised/known down in the Vermont DM?

Mentioned the incidient to them and got an apology and a don't worry about it, if you ever need something come down here instead and we'll look after you. Ahhhhhhhh, good customer service

I guess I'll be going to the Vermont DM instead of the Forest hill DM from now on. It's only ten to fifteen extra minutes detour and well worth it.

It just makes me wonder why there are some wankers in the wine industry, and how a few bad eggs can ruin reputations and make people put off.

I worked in the hotel industry a few years back and a bit of a smile goes a long way for most people, there are a few wankers out there and I guess you just have to take them with a bit of salt.

Before I get to philosphical I just say this "It's the bad moments in life that help you to appreciate the go ones".

Cheers for now

Mark

[Guest]

I spent over $30K stocking my cellar during the last year or so and I did not buy one bottle from DM. I bought 98% via the internet. I have saved about 15 web-sites in my favourites and upon deciding on which wine I would like to buy, I begin my search for the best price. I always buy in cases and therefore delivery costs are often waived. Plus I always make a point of trying to speak to the internet retailer where possible and find that the service increases after that. I generally buy wine above $50 p/b and at that range, DM has never competed. I can't stand going into their stores and fighting my way around the shelves and then standing in line like a supermarket. How can you compare that to the convenience of the internet. Open 24/7 and it is delivered to my door. I have also found that any wine with a little age is ridiculously priced. I recently bought the '98 and '99 JR for $49 p/b, at DM they were $75 - why bother. They're not getting a cent of my money..

[Mark]

Interesting

I must admit to enjoying the hunt for a good wine shop. There are a few pearls in the sea of wine. Some really cheap with great back vintages. Call me old fashion but I love to walk into a wine cellar and look around see if anything gets my eye. Bargain, vintage, new wine, etc... It's sometime hard to find out what's going on in the world of wine if your stuck behind a computer. (It seems like I've been here all day ) Although I must admit sometimes it's the fastest and easiest way if you lack time, the ability to get to a bottleshop or know what you want and where to get it cheap.

cheers Mark

[Gary]

Woody,

Although I generally agree with your comments and support the smaller independents as much as I can, the reasons I sometimes still do price matches at DM are:
The cheapest store doesn't necessarily have good service or may charge freight at high rates.
DM in Canberra will usually honour advertised prices for less than case purchases (may have changed, haven't tried recently) and haven't factored freight in the times I've bought on a match.
Convenience.

Interesting, you insist on price matching by Dan Murphy while deceiving them about the price being matched by neglecting to mention freight.

I'm sure it's an innocent ommission on your part rather than deliberately screwing them .

I also see it as a way of making sure they honour their policy and for reducing their profits....

Reducing profits? No they will still get their profits. They will do this by reducing the wages budget in the store, which further reduces the service that you, and the others here, demand when you go in there for your price matching, whether legitimate or not.

[Red Bigot]

Interesting, you insist on price matching by Dan Murphy while deceiving them about the price being matched by neglecting to mention freight.

I'm sure it's an innocent ommission on your part rather than deliberately screwing them.

Gary, read what I said. The ads supplied to get the price match have all the relevant freight charge information, it is DM who chose to not include that in the price match, I wasn't going to insist they include it, would you?. Of course, as you suggest, I am perfectly willing to "screw" any merchant who routinely tries to "screw" me, but there is nothing deceitful in the way I go about it, why do you suggest there was?

I'll ignore the rest of your conjecture...

[TORB]

Reducing profits? No they will still get their profits. They will do this by reducing the wages budget in the store, which further reduces the service that you, and the others here, demand when you go in there for your price matching, whether legitimate or not.

Gary,

DM's mark up on many wines are well above average in comparison to many independents. The profit margin is fat, thats why the big two Oz retailers want to own wine retailing. If the profit was just in beer and spirits, they would not need those huge stores with rows of wine. The wine is the most profitable part of the business. If they wanted to, they could easily have more staff but obviously thats not the style of business they want to run.