Hi All
Aussie John's post re the 1996's and some tastings lately have returned me to an oft quoted theme on the Forum: over-hyped vintages eg 1997 South Australian Riesling, 1990 vintage when compared to the under-hyped 1991.
Bought way too much 1997 Riesling to see the majority of it fall apart prematurely. So, as I have an inordinate amount of 1998 reds, anyone care to post a few TN's on 1998 reds to soothe my fevered brow?
Opened a Rosemount Show Reserve 1998 red the other night and while good on opening, after an hour or so it had fallen apart completely. Not a good sign. I opened a 1998 Wynns BL shortly thereafter and it has plenty of structure and lots of life left in it.
I know debate on here has also focussed on say 1991 which turned out to be a better vintage in many respects than the much vaunted 1990. Anyway, how are your 1998 reds travelling? Is it time to start consuming some of them?
Cheers
MP
Over-hyped vintages? How are your 1998 reds travelling??
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Martin Phillipson
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:49 am
98's
I posted a month or two ago with some notes and comments about the 98's. My assessment was that most haven't budged or are aging very well. There were a few letdowns, but in general I think the greatness of the vintage to this point is justified.
Brian
Martin,
I largely agree with your hypothesis. In fact, in late 2001 I bought a case of the Rosemount SR wine (for all of $12 each) at auction and proceeded to drink it as a quaffer over the next 18 months. By the time I drank the last one I was convinced I'd had most of them at their peak. I have nearly 100 botles of assorted 98s in my cellar - although a good half of them are pedigree wines (389, 707, RWT, Quintet, Wendouree etc.) about which i have little concern.
Some of the more modest wines carrying 14.0% or more I've been wondering about - Yalumba Mawsons (which tasted a little varnishy the other night), Lehmann Shiraz, Mamre Brook cabernet. They've lost that first flush of youth but haven't picked up much in the way of development. They're at the crucial point now I feel - about to come together wonderfully or fall apart horribly. Some of the pricier wines have me a bit puzzled at the moment - Chapel Hill Vicar and Tintara being two wines not showing as well as I'd hoped recently. I've figured on giving both a few more years before re-tasting.
Other, humble wines are now passing their peak - the Jacob's Creek Reserve wines for instance, I feel have nothing further to gain and should be drunk.
FWIW, Rolf Binder plumped for 96 over 98 when I asked him a few years ago in the WLDG chatroom which he felt was the better vintage. I think in the long term 1996 will be the one. (If I was a wealthier man I'd be buying 96 Grange, not 98, that's for sure.)
cheers,
Graeme
I largely agree with your hypothesis. In fact, in late 2001 I bought a case of the Rosemount SR wine (for all of $12 each) at auction and proceeded to drink it as a quaffer over the next 18 months. By the time I drank the last one I was convinced I'd had most of them at their peak. I have nearly 100 botles of assorted 98s in my cellar - although a good half of them are pedigree wines (389, 707, RWT, Quintet, Wendouree etc.) about which i have little concern.
Some of the more modest wines carrying 14.0% or more I've been wondering about - Yalumba Mawsons (which tasted a little varnishy the other night), Lehmann Shiraz, Mamre Brook cabernet. They've lost that first flush of youth but haven't picked up much in the way of development. They're at the crucial point now I feel - about to come together wonderfully or fall apart horribly. Some of the pricier wines have me a bit puzzled at the moment - Chapel Hill Vicar and Tintara being two wines not showing as well as I'd hoped recently. I've figured on giving both a few more years before re-tasting.
Other, humble wines are now passing their peak - the Jacob's Creek Reserve wines for instance, I feel have nothing further to gain and should be drunk.
FWIW, Rolf Binder plumped for 96 over 98 when I asked him a few years ago in the WLDG chatroom which he felt was the better vintage. I think in the long term 1996 will be the one. (If I was a wealthier man I'd be buying 96 Grange, not 98, that's for sure.)
cheers,
Graeme
Hi all,
Martin and Graeme, which Rosemaount SR are you talking about, the Sh. or the Cab?
I have some of those 96 reds that seem to be holding on forever, like the Wynns BL, Kalimna, Keyneton Est., Elderton Cab, John Riddoch (like you'd expect), but I have to say that so far the 98's seem to be doing just the same. In fact I'm too scared to crack many of them this year as I know they are only getting better.
I couldn't drink the Mawsons at any vintage so far, too unbalanced and I doubt they will get better (mind you haven't tried the 99). Just don't think they are worth it. The Mamre Brook Cab 98 is one of my favourites and the Sh. simply never lasted in the cellar (might have one). The list is too extensive to be able to jot down of the top of the head, but IMO I wouldn't worry if I were you Martin. There may be some of the top end block-busters that may not make it, I wonder about Command 98, and Stonewell 98 sometimes, but that may just be my bank account having a turn
One I am going to give a go shortly is the Tatachillla Cab 98. Mmmmm
regards,
Martin and Graeme, which Rosemaount SR are you talking about, the Sh. or the Cab?
I have some of those 96 reds that seem to be holding on forever, like the Wynns BL, Kalimna, Keyneton Est., Elderton Cab, John Riddoch (like you'd expect), but I have to say that so far the 98's seem to be doing just the same. In fact I'm too scared to crack many of them this year as I know they are only getting better.
I couldn't drink the Mawsons at any vintage so far, too unbalanced and I doubt they will get better (mind you haven't tried the 99). Just don't think they are worth it. The Mamre Brook Cab 98 is one of my favourites and the Sh. simply never lasted in the cellar (might have one). The list is too extensive to be able to jot down of the top of the head, but IMO I wouldn't worry if I were you Martin. There may be some of the top end block-busters that may not make it, I wonder about Command 98, and Stonewell 98 sometimes, but that may just be my bank account having a turn
One I am going to give a go shortly is the Tatachillla Cab 98. Mmmmm
regards,
simm.
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
Sorry, Rosemount SR Shiraz!
Look, I've a few other 98s I'm totally confident about - Bin 28, Wynns BL, Gaia, Mt Edelstone (but not tasted for 18 months), Petaluma C-M, OP&OH - but only because they are perhaps nearer in alcohol to their predecessors. In fact it was the Rosemount wine and 2 98 Vicars drunk nearly back-to-back that made me start wondering.
I recall Jeremy Oliver talking about raisined, porty flavours, and suggesting such wines, while spectacular young, would collapse with equal flamboyance. Now many of his recent bete noirs I've not tasted - Jasper Hill, Block 6, Dead Arm and so on, but I reckon there'll be a few wines which justify his stance in a few years.
Hey, the experts all reckoned that the 97 Clare rieslings would be magnificent for 20 years, and that turned out to be dreamin' of the highest order. I'm confident that there will be disappointments amongst the 98 reds too...
cheers,
Graeme
Look, I've a few other 98s I'm totally confident about - Bin 28, Wynns BL, Gaia, Mt Edelstone (but not tasted for 18 months), Petaluma C-M, OP&OH - but only because they are perhaps nearer in alcohol to their predecessors. In fact it was the Rosemount wine and 2 98 Vicars drunk nearly back-to-back that made me start wondering.
I recall Jeremy Oliver talking about raisined, porty flavours, and suggesting such wines, while spectacular young, would collapse with equal flamboyance. Now many of his recent bete noirs I've not tasted - Jasper Hill, Block 6, Dead Arm and so on, but I reckon there'll be a few wines which justify his stance in a few years.
Hey, the experts all reckoned that the 97 Clare rieslings would be magnificent for 20 years, and that turned out to be dreamin' of the highest order. I'm confident that there will be disappointments amongst the 98 reds too...
cheers,
Graeme
GraemeG wrote:Sorry, Rosemount SR Shiraz!
Look, I've a few other 98s I'm totally confident about - Bin 28, Wynns BL, Gaia, Mt Edelstone (but not tasted for 18 months), Petaluma C-M, OP&OH - but only because they are perhaps nearer in alcohol to their predecessors. In fact it was the Rosemount wine and 2 98 Vicars drunk nearly back-to-back that made me start wondering.
I recall Jeremy Oliver talking about raisined, porty flavours, and suggesting such wines, while spectacular young, would collapse with equal flamboyance. Now many of his recent bete noirs I've not tasted - Jasper Hill, Block 6, Dead Arm and so on, but I reckon there'll be a few wines which justify his stance in a few years.
Hey, the experts all reckoned that the 97 Clare rieslings would be magnificent for 20 years, and that turned out to be dreamin' of the highest order. I'm confident that there will be disappointments amongst the 98 reds too...
cheers,
Graeme
Ah, the Dead Arm was one of the ones I was suspicious of as well. I think the Rosemount SR 98 Cab will hang in there but you have to be into that oaky style regardless. The porty flavours I'm not keen on if they are overwhelming, too hard to drink more than 2 glasses. Agree on the OPOH, so glad I bought up on it!!
I have had to hide some of the 2002 Rieslings in the dark depths of the cellar to make sure my wife gets to try something aged in the future (Can I hear glass bottles being shifted now?.. hang on... no, it's okay, another cellar), but otherwise can't comment.
cheers Graeme,
simm.
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
"I ain't drunk! I' still drinkin' !!"
I've tried a few 1998s over the last six months with mixed results.
The Penfolds Koonunga Hill hasn't aged a day in nearly three years, and it's the same story for the Leasingham Bin 61, and Chapel Hill Cabernet Sauvignon & Shiraz (which makes the recent reviews here of the Vicar being very advanced quite surprising).
The Wynns BL has opened up magnificently, with some suprisingly advanced complexity, but it's still an thick, inky colour with vivid purple hues, and stunning body and length.
The Penfolds Bin 407 hasn't faired so well. They opened a museum bottle with a damaged label at Magill Estate CD, and it was very disappointing. The colour had lost all it's purples and depth, and was starting to even hint at some browning. The nose and palate were savoury, but over-ripe with no length, and really went nowhere - a real flop compared to the Koonunga Hill.
Last night I opened a Wirra Wirra Church Block, after trying a 1995 Museum release at their CD a few weeks ago (not a pretty wine, and a strange choice to plug cellaring potential). The colour is a dark, clear red, with no sign of purple. The nose is complex, with chocolate, mint, green capsicum and menthol. The palate is quite hot (14%), and is on the porty side, with hints of rasins and spicy oak in support. Like a lot of Vales wines I've tasted, tasting with Cheddar brings out some licorice notes. It's a lot more advanced than I thought it would be three years ago, and seems to follow Oliver's general comments.
Cheers,
Ian
The Penfolds Koonunga Hill hasn't aged a day in nearly three years, and it's the same story for the Leasingham Bin 61, and Chapel Hill Cabernet Sauvignon & Shiraz (which makes the recent reviews here of the Vicar being very advanced quite surprising).
The Wynns BL has opened up magnificently, with some suprisingly advanced complexity, but it's still an thick, inky colour with vivid purple hues, and stunning body and length.
The Penfolds Bin 407 hasn't faired so well. They opened a museum bottle with a damaged label at Magill Estate CD, and it was very disappointing. The colour had lost all it's purples and depth, and was starting to even hint at some browning. The nose and palate were savoury, but over-ripe with no length, and really went nowhere - a real flop compared to the Koonunga Hill.
Last night I opened a Wirra Wirra Church Block, after trying a 1995 Museum release at their CD a few weeks ago (not a pretty wine, and a strange choice to plug cellaring potential). The colour is a dark, clear red, with no sign of purple. The nose is complex, with chocolate, mint, green capsicum and menthol. The palate is quite hot (14%), and is on the porty side, with hints of rasins and spicy oak in support. Like a lot of Vales wines I've tasted, tasting with Cheddar brings out some licorice notes. It's a lot more advanced than I thought it would be three years ago, and seems to follow Oliver's general comments.
Cheers,
Ian
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Baby Chickpea
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:17 pm
How are the 98s travelling? Gosh ...I still haven't got to the 90s yet! I'm still drinking my 86s!
Ask me in at least 5-8 years!
Ask me in at least 5-8 years!
Danny
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. We must never be afraid to go too far, for success lies just beyond - Marcel Proust
1998 Orlando Trilogy Red
Deep red/garnet colour which has just lost its purple hues. The nose has those leafy Cabernet cassis characters with raspberry as on release, but this time it's a touch spirity. The palate still has dusty tannins and a very soft body making for easy-drinking, with concentrated tomato, which with breathing also appears in the nose with hints of tea and fish sauce. A little warm on the palate, but not as hot as the Church Block. Drank over three nights without decay - quite respectable for a cheapie.
Cheers
Ian
Cheers
Ian
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Guest
1998 Majella Cabernet
Living proof that 1998 was a good year. Absolutety fantastic and will open my next in 3-5 years. Tastes as you would imagine a top notch Coonawarra Cab to be at 6 years - just hitting it's straps and a lot better to come. I have 5 more of these left - YAY!!!! I'm not game to try the Malleas too soon after trying this.
1998 Penfolds Bin 128 - disappointing after the last wine, but many would be. Drinkable but unremarkable. Have had two now but both in illustrious company. Have read a couple of reports with low level TCA - believable and will comment further if the next one proves otherwise. Will try again shortly and make a a decision on the rest of the case
1998 Woodstock "The Stocks"
Very good and was exactly what was expected. Will last well but not forever. Starting to drink well now and will last 5 years+. I have liked this wine as a medium term cellaring prospect and continue to with this vintage. Drinking window started and a very nice wine.
1998 Wynns BLack Label
Fantastic. Probably shaded by the Majella but as good as any others from good years (96, 94) I have tried. I expect to be impressed by this for 10 years.
These are the only four I have tasted recently. I will endeavour to get through a lot more this winter as I also believe I also have far too many 98 SA reds in the cellar. Reading between the lines, I am finding that the quality producers, with a good pedigree will produce great wines from 98 that are going to age well. Some others may disappoint. After what I have read recently, a more thorough investigation of my cellar is required, esp from Barossa , but if there is one thing the Majella has told me : "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". The jury is still out on the 1998 vintage.
Living proof that 1998 was a good year. Absolutety fantastic and will open my next in 3-5 years. Tastes as you would imagine a top notch Coonawarra Cab to be at 6 years - just hitting it's straps and a lot better to come. I have 5 more of these left - YAY!!!! I'm not game to try the Malleas too soon after trying this.
1998 Penfolds Bin 128 - disappointing after the last wine, but many would be. Drinkable but unremarkable. Have had two now but both in illustrious company. Have read a couple of reports with low level TCA - believable and will comment further if the next one proves otherwise. Will try again shortly and make a a decision on the rest of the case
1998 Woodstock "The Stocks"
Very good and was exactly what was expected. Will last well but not forever. Starting to drink well now and will last 5 years+. I have liked this wine as a medium term cellaring prospect and continue to with this vintage. Drinking window started and a very nice wine.
1998 Wynns BLack Label
Fantastic. Probably shaded by the Majella but as good as any others from good years (96, 94) I have tried. I expect to be impressed by this for 10 years.
These are the only four I have tasted recently. I will endeavour to get through a lot more this winter as I also believe I also have far too many 98 SA reds in the cellar. Reading between the lines, I am finding that the quality producers, with a good pedigree will produce great wines from 98 that are going to age well. Some others may disappoint. After what I have read recently, a more thorough investigation of my cellar is required, esp from Barossa , but if there is one thing the Majella has told me : "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". The jury is still out on the 1998 vintage.
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David Lole
Re: Over-hyped vintages? How are your 1998 reds travelling??
Martin Phillipson wrote:Hi All
Aussie John's post re the 1996's and some tastings lately have returned me to an oft quoted theme on the Forum: over-hyped vintages eg 1997 South Australian Riesling, 1990 vintage when compared to the under-hyped 1991.
Bought way too much 1997 Riesling to see the majority of it fall apart prematurely. So, as I have an inordinate amount of 1998 reds, anyone care to post a few TN's on 1998 reds to soothe my fevered brow?
Opened a Rosemount Show Reserve 1998 red the other night and while good on opening, after an hour or so it had fallen apart completely. Not a good sign. I opened a 1998 Wynns BL shortly thereafter and it has plenty of structure and lots of life left in it.
I know debate on here has also focussed on say 1991 which turned out to be a better vintage in many respects than the much vaunted 1990. Anyway, how are your 1998 reds travelling? Is it time to start consuming some of them?
Cheers
MP
Martin,
G'day and all,
The only one I've tried of late - '98 Mildara Cabernet is drinking very well and should hold for another 4-5 years. Probably won't try my better (read more expensive) ones 'til then anyway, so I can't be of much help today. How's the big freeze over your way? Must be starting to thaw a bit by now?