Stelvins: can anyone say anything bad about them?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:11 pm

I guess most people nowadays agree that stelvins are ok for unoaked white wines (perhaps, the aging goes a bit slower, but apart from that...)
But I'd like to hear your opinions on stelvins for oaked, expecially red wines. What do you think, guys?

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:14 pm

There's no reason to think screwcaps are any more suitable for one style of wine than another - no-one ever suggested the same for corks. And there seems to be enough isolated evidence of reds under screwcap (refer Tyson Stelzer's book) to indicate that it's been done before without problems. So why not?

cheers,
Graeme

michaelw · Post by **michaelw** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:14 pm

Another variation on the screwcap vs cork debate. Yet again.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:12 pm

GraemeG wrote:There's no reason to think screwcaps are any more suitable for one style of wine than another - no-one ever suggested the same for corks. And there seems to be enough isolated evidence of reds under screwcap (refer Tyson Stelzer's book) to indicate that it's been done before without problems. So why not?

cheers,
Graeme

http://www.jancisrobinson.com/winenews/ ... s0103.html
"Synthetic (plastic) corks have been tried and (so far) found wanting in elasticity, ecological correctness and effectiveness as a seal after a year or two. Screwcaps have gained ground substantially for unoaked white wines, especially in Australia and New Zealand, but there are fears that screwcaps may be just too airtight for seemly ageing of oaked wines of both colours - and besides, they are hardly easy on the eye. "
For example this...

I am sure I saw more in the Web...

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:21 pm

Anonymous wrote:, but there are fears that screwcaps may be just too airtight for seemly ageing of oaked wines of both colours - and besides, they are hardly easy on the eye. "
For example this...

I am sure I saw more in the Web...

Yeah, but so what? There are fears that non-fined & filtered wines will develop bacterial spoilage over time. There are fears that reverse osmosis and other 'new-fangled' techniques will strip wine of its terroir. Screwcaps are the easiest of fears to quell - it's not like it's an all or nothing committment.

So bottle one-third of the run under screwcap. I will cheerfully sign a release saying I won't make any claim for wine spoilt under screwcap, so long as I get 7.5% discount (5% TCA across remaining 66% of the volume) on the purchase price.

And people who insist the "crapshoot of the cork" is part of the fine wine experience can continue their little rituals about whether the wine is TCA'd/oxidised/supposed to show this way every time they open a 10-year-old bottle...

cheers,
Graeme

A different Guest · Post by **A different Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:08 pm

Having recently poured two corked Oz Pinot Noirs down the sink a 00 & 02 from different producers and find most Oz Pinot can be approached when young I would have rather had them under screwcap.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:17 pm

GraemeG wrote:[quote="Anonymous
Yeah, but so what? There are fears that non-fined & filtered wines will develop bacterial spoilage over time. There are fears that reverse osmosis and other 'new-fangled' techniques will strip wine of its terroir. Screwcaps are the easiest of fears to quell - it's not like it's an all or nothing committment.

huh???

n4sir · Post by **n4sir** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:53 pm

For me it's a case of the Jury still being out.

While I'm keen on anything reducing what seems to be an ever-increasing proportion of faulty wines due to the effects of cork (be it TCA, bottle volatility or whatever), the ROTE enclosure has thrown up a few new issues for me.

The first concern I've struck is the toughness (or lack of) of the enclosure itself. I've heard of a case of a woman walking around bottle shops opening stelvin-capped wines, taking a sip, and replacing them - this could be just crap, and it could be easily fixed by having some sort of plastic sheath over the capsule. Of more concern is impact through the top, breaking the membrane and rendering the seal useless. No matter how much you treat your wines with kid gloves, just one momentary lapse of reason or a stroke of bad luck is all it takes, and that's a real worry.

I've a few friends who are concerned the wines won't age, and quite a few of the new reds being released under ROTE are a bit on the feral side - a Winemaker must be squeaky-clean or else it shows up in the finished product on release. Andrew Mitchell and Tim Adams are keen promoters of the enclosures, advocating that the wines do age over time under ROTE, and generally speaking I would trust their judgement. You will see quite a few Clare producers releasing all of their reds under ROTE in the next year, and the immediate proof will be the tasting of these new releases.

Cheers
Ian

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:07 am

Anonymous wrote:
GraemeG wrote:[quote="Anonymous
Yeah, but so what? There are fears that non-fined & filtered wines will develop bacterial spoilage over time. There are fears that reverse osmosis and other 'new-fangled' techniques will strip wine of its terroir. Screwcaps are the easiest of fears to quell - it's not like it's an all or nothing committment.

huh???

The only thing that raises any doubts about screwcaps in the passage quoted from Jancis' site is a statement saying "fears screwcaps may be too airtight..." I'm merely pointing out that "fears" do not constitute a valid reason to refrain from action, and there are fears about a whole lot of other things as well. But people do them anyway.

cheers,
Graeme

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:24 pm

I've just had my first Stelvin mishap. My cellar consists mostly of wine in cardboard boxes under the stairs (not on an outside wall). Occasionally wine gets knocked around a little, and a bottle seems to have a dented screwcap. I'm only 90% sure that the bottle is in trouble but the level seems to have gone down at least a centimetre.

So, a bottle of Ferngrove Cossack Riesling 03 has been relocated to the fridge, to be consumed years before its time. And it might well have oxidized if there's really a leak.

This doesn't seem to happen with cork - the cork is hidden and the bottle is nearly indestructible.

Kieran

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:47 pm

"Guest" - no name ? - assume you are a pro-cork baiter ?

Chris

BA · Post by BA » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:58 pm

My Girlfriend hates them. She bought a half case of Leasingham bin 7 riesling and had 5 leak - all oxidised badly. I'm certain that a case had something heavy dropped on it and physical damage is the cause, not screwcap issues. To their credit, the winery came to the party with replacements - albeit from the same shop - one of which leaked also (hence my theory of one bad case being damaged).
I have had only one problem and this pales beside the number of cork problems in the same time.

The one bad thing to say is that if a stelvin is damaged and leaks, by the time you find it, the wine is too far gone to even try. These Bin 7's were very young and very undrinkable. When a cork leaks, you can drink the wine, earlier than expected, and mostly still get some enjoyment. Often this has given me an insight into cellaring times.

Kieran, try the bottle that is down a cm soon, but don't hold out too many hopes for it. I'll be intersted to hear how it turns out. I've tried 6 bottles down about the same amount and am 0/6.

I'm in favour of stelvin simply due to TCA. And I expect all whites to be under stelvin soon.

My real opinion ??? Plant More Cork Trees !!!

BA