Grange...Australia's Finest?

PaulSheldon · Post by **PaulSheldon** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:41 pm

Comments please!

Good topic for discussion!

Opinions welcome, at its best I think it has the best track record for any Australian Wine.

Is it the best wine in each and every vintage, clearly not.

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:55 pm

PaulSheldon wrote:Comments please!

Good topic for discussion!

Opinions welcome, at its best I think it has the best track record for any Australian Wine.

Is it the best wine in each and every vintage, clearly not.

Apologies to Paul

Board owner stuff up, I think I edited his excellent post as I was trying to respond.

My apologies Paul, did you use copy and paste rather than type it (I hope :oops:

)

PaulSheldon · Post by **PaulSheldon** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:11 pm

Dear dear, these new-fandangled computer thingies are hard to work out aren't they? :lol:

Unfortunately I didn't do a cut and paste, but my post was something like the following:
------

I noted with interest Gavin's comments in the single vineyard and Parker thread about Grange being "Australia's finest and most recognised wine". I certainly wouldn't argue about it being Australia's most recognised wine at the premium end of town, but it got me thinking about whether it really is, or is considered by most, to be Australia's finest wine.

I haven't had the opportunity to taste a lot of top premium wines but have tasted 3 vintages of Grange ( 96,97,98 ). At a blind tasting I rated the 98 Bin 707 better than the 98 Grange, and at a non-blind tasting rated the 98 Bin 707 and 99 Mosswood Cabernet better than the 96 Grange. I didn't rate the 97 Grange very highly at all. Of course I could be a cabernet addict but I don't think so.

Now to be fair all these wines were tasted within about 12 months of release, hardly their best or intended window and certainly not at the peak of their abilities. However I did think it was an interesting point of discussion and since (forgive me Father for) it has been nearly two months since my last confession, er post, I thought I would ask the question, what does everyone else consider to be Australia's finest wine?

PS - Gavin, I have copied the contents of this post, burnt it to CD and sent it to an offsite backup facility, so please feel free to attempt another reply

Gavin Trott · Post by **Gavin Trott** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:18 pm

PaulSheldon wrote:
PS - Gavin, I have copied the contents of this post, burnt it to CD and sent it to an offsite backup facility, so please feel free to attempt another reply

Managed that one (I think).

Mike Hawkins · Post by **Mike Hawkins** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:02 pm

I think it is Australia's best table wine, though not in every vintage. I'd guess is the best wine in roughly 40% of vintages, though others will say this is overstated. Certainly, IMO there were better wines made in 1990 (HOG), 1995 (Cullen), 1997 (Craiglee) and I'm sure there are many others I've forgotten. But given the vast vineyard resources at Southcorp's disposal, I am yet to encounter a "bad" Grange, yet most other wines have at least one "dud" if you go back 15 years.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:09 pm

Grange is a very fine wine indeed. with impressive consistency even over lesser vintages. but there are other claimants to the throne:

Clarendon Hills Australis
Cullen Cabernet Merlot
Mount Mary Quintet
Giaconda Chardonnay
Leeuwin Chardonnay
Grosset Polish Hill
Bass Phillip Reserve Pinot
Three Rivers Shiraz (now Chris Ringland Shiraz, I think)

And then there are a few single wines which also deserve a mention:

Tyrrell's HVD reserve semillon
Some Leo Buring 1970s Rieslings
Some Wendourees

And in the Penfolds stable, Bin 707 and RWT aren't far off the quality of Grange. And the Kalimna Cab Sav probably beats out all of them.

Kieran

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:10 pm

Paul,

I think there is room for more than one Oz wine at the top of the pinnacle, especially given personal preferences.

I am definitely on the side of those who put Grange up there on that pinnacle, I've had the pleasure of tasting the 76 and 86 together in 1996, the 83 and a bunch of others from the 70's and 80's at one dinner in 1998 and tasted the full line-up of Lindemans, Wynns and Pennies premium level at release of the Grange 96. Things got progressively better up to the 96 707 and I thought it would be hard to beat, but the 96 Grange just blew it off the table. Consequently there is a 6-pack of 96 Grange in my cellar (the only Grange I have) and no 96 707.

I haven't tried the 98 Grange, but I doubt I would prefer the 98 707 and I have no doubt that in 20 years time I will still prefer the 96 Grange to the 96 707 (or any other 707 I've ever tried).

I've never cottoned on to Mt Mary or Moss Wood, but some of the Cullens over the years have impressed me mightily, but I've got no quarrel with people who might prefer any of those or other to the Grange.

MartinC · Post by **MartinC** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:25 pm

For me the '98 Grange is indeed the finest wine out of AU. Can't said the same about their lesser vintages such as 92, 93, 97. Plenty of flagship wines fr other producers will knock 'em off. Due to the pedigree and it's track record, it's the torch bearer for Australia.

I'm not impressed with the 1998 707. IMO the best 707 in the 90s is their 1996.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:36 pm

Kieran wrote:Grange is a very fine wine indeed. with impressive consistency even over lesser vintages. but there are other claimants to the throne:

Clarendon Hills Australis
Cullen Cabernet Merlot
Mount Mary Quintet
Giaconda Chardonnay
Leeuwin Chardonnay
Grosset Polish Hill
Bass Phillip Reserve Pinot
Three Rivers Shiraz (now Chris Ringland Shiraz, I think)

And then there are a few single wines which also deserve a mention:

Tyrrell's HVD reserve semillon
Some Leo Buring 1970s Rieslings
Some Wendourees

And in the Penfolds stable, Bin 707 and RWT aren't far off the quality of Grange. And the Kalimna Cab Sav probably beats out all of them.

Kieran

Gosh no!

David Lole · Post by **David Lole** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:51 pm

PaulSheldon wrote:I noted with interest Gavin's comments in the single vineyard and Parker thread about Grange being "Australia's finest and most recognised wine". I certainly wouldn't argue about it being Australia's most recognised wine at the premium end of town, but it got me thinking about whether it really is, or is considered by most, to be Australia's finest wine.

I haven't had the opportunity to taste a lot of top premium wines but have tasted 3 vintages of Grange ( 96,97,98 ). At a blind tasting I rated the 98 Bin 707 better than the 98 Grange, and at a non-blind tasting rated the 98 Bin 707 and 99 Mosswood Cabernet better than the 96 Grange. I didn't rate the 97 Grange very highly at all. Of course I could be a cabernet addict but I don't think so.

Now to be fair all these wines were tasted within about 12 months of release, hardly their best or intended window and certainly not at the peak of their abilities. However I did think it was an interesting point of discussion and since (forgive me Father for) it has been nearly two months since my last confession, er post, I thought I would ask the question, what does everyone else consider to be Australia's finest wine?

PS - Gavin, I have copied the contents of this post, burnt it to CD and sent it to an offsite backup facility, so please feel free to attempt another reply

Paul, Grange needs more like 2 decades to be fully appreciated. Brian (Red Bigot) can vouch for the quality of the '84 served late last year. More problematic for me is the ridiculous prices some vintages of Grange now attract (note the profiteering on the '98 ) forcing most of us to "chill out" from the buying process. As to its' merit as our "'finest" - for longevity and sheer prestige - the answer is probably yes, but if I could have, say, 10 bottles of '83 Cape Mentelle and 6 bottles of '82 Cullen's or 5 bottles of '94 Moss Wood for 1 bottle of '98 Grange, I'd take the multiple W.A. bottles every time.

Craig(NZ) · Post by **Craig(NZ)** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:05 am

Hard to beat a top vintage of henschke cyril esp 90,93,94,96,98

think aussies under rate that wine a bit.

michel · Post by **michel** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:59 am

Craig(NZ) wrote:Hard to beat a top vintage of henschke cyril esp 90,93,94,96,98

think aussies under rate that wine a bit.

I dont under rate it but for 100 dollars it stings. I tried the maligned vintage 2000 Cyril at a chunky barossa tasting and it stood out for all the right reasons of pure elegance and balance.
michel

simm · Post by **simm** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:13 pm

At a tasting of the Bin range some time ago I quite like the Grange 97 simply because it was so different to the 98 (which came out exactly as I expected). I was completely taken aback by the 97 spiciness even though I could see that its flavour intensity and richness wasn't anything up to the 98.

cheers,

PaulSheldon · Post by **PaulSheldon** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:41 pm

I tasted the 97 Grange not that long after the 96. I was blown away by how good the 96 was and as a result was completely underwhelmed with the 97. It probably is a very fine wine in its own right, I just expected more after the 96. Having said that, the 96 was the first vintage I had ever tried so I was expecting more of the same. The 98 seemed to come back towards what I expected of a Grange and as a result I still feel the 97 isn't a particularly good vintage. Of course in 20 years time that might all be a bit different.

TORB · Post by **TORB** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:50 pm

There is no doubt that Grange is a terrific wine but I have a real problem with the lack of value at $400 for a wine like the 1997. In a good year possibly but when you serve a wine like that in a blind line up others at an eighth of the price will surpass it.

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