Very good wines, from very young vines

[Gavin Trott]

Hello

An idea taken from a thread below, who can tell us about very good wines, that have, despite what established Old Vines theory tells us, come from young vines and relatively new plantings?

Who can help, someone from the trade perhaps?

[Gary W]

Castagna
Savaterre

[Gavin Trott]

Castagna
Savaterre

Totally agree re Castagna, not had the Savaterre, thanks GW

[Mike Hawkins]

Totally agree on Savaterre. Tried both wines last week and they were simply outstanding.

[PaulV]

Howard Park Leston wines (vines planted 1996), not sure about Scottsdale.

[Gavin Trott]

Liebich the Leverett Shiraz, and, I think, the Crackerjack Cabernet, very nice wines in the rich and full bodied Liebich style.

[Red Bigot]

Cape Grace, vineyards planted 1996.

[Murray]

Warrenmang Black Puma Shiraz; very good juice from 4-6 yo vines.

[Red Bigot]

Jeni Port article on wines from young vines in Winestate:
http://www.winestate.com.au/magazine/ar ... icleno=247

Also Kays Hillside reds are off "relatively young vines", not sure how old, planted 1991 as far as I can find out.

Tyrrells Heathcote vineyard planted 1994.

Craggy range NZ, Gimblett Gravels planted 1999, first vintage 2001 with stunning Shiraz.

Giaconda Warner Vineyard Shiraz (not tried it, but must be good )

[kenzo as guest]

Guigal La Turque 1985
also for those who like the style, Arakoon's The Doyen.

[Guest]

Greenock creek 7 acres

[Red Bigot]

Greenock creek 7 acres

I thought the 7-Acre was from older vineyards, Apricot Block is pretty young, don't know about Alice's.

Since found that 7-acre was 1986 plantings, Alices 91 plantings.

Raises the questions, what is young, what age can you call the vines "old" and is there an in-between term, eg "mature"?

My guess:
V Young < 5
Young 5-10
Mature 10-25 (I've seen 20 yo claimed as Old vines)
Old 25-> for marketing purposes and possibly 40-> for vine maturity?

Open to suggestions from grape-growers/vignerons/marketers/consumers here...

[Mark G]

Evans and Tate won the International shiraz challenge in London with a 3-5yo vines wine - bit of a secret as most of the grapes came in from their new Jindong plantings and not the more prestigious Willyabrup block.

Cheers

Mark G

[lazy brad]

Evans and Tate won the International shiraz challenge in London with a 3-5yo vines wine - bit of a secret as most of the grapes came in from their new Jindong plantings and not the more prestigious Willyabrup block.

Cheers

Mark G

Jindong wines have had some great success for the various producers there, Vasse Felix and E&T among them. Adds a new and interesting dimension to the MR region.

BTW, where are your vines Mark?

Cheers, brad

[Mark G]

lazy brad - when you drive past the Jindong vineyards (as I do everyday), you get the feeling that a little bit of the riverlands has turned up in MR. We all know it's needed for the Vasse Felix's and E&T's of this world simply because of their turnover (..... just out of interest I wonder how many visitors to their respective cellar doors know that the vineyards that surround these august Wilyabrup locales would make up <10% (guessing here) of their total crush??). To be honest it doesn't provide a new dimension just a great place to grow a heap of grapes as the soil in the jindong block is "soilicious" and would grow almost anything - no one will have visitor centres or rave about the Jindong connection me thinks ..... (though I have been proved wrong in the past )

Our little ball of debt is East of the townsite of MR in an area known as Osmington - lots of little growers (Olsens, Jarvis Estate, Artimus), and the scotts who grow a reasonable amount for Houghtons and usually get top billing with their grapes apparently. An "exciting" new area to borrow a rather hackneyed cliche.

Cheers

Mark G

[Guest]

Greenock creek 7 acres

I thought the 7-Acre was from older vineyards, Apricot Block is pretty young, don't know about Alice's.

Since found that 7-acre was 1986 plantings, Alices 91 plantings.

Raises the questions, what is young, what age can you call the vines "old" and is there an in-between term, eg "mature"?

My guess:
V Young < 5
Young 5-10
Mature 10-25 (I've seen 20 yo claimed as Old vines)
Old 25-> for marketing purposes and possibly 40-> for vine maturity?

Open to suggestions from grape-growers/vignerons/marketers/consumers here...

fair call, the 7 acres however was gaining press in the early 90's.
even still 18 year old vines today in the barossa is hardly ancient.

[Guest]

Our little ball of debt is East of the townsite of MR in an area known as Osmington - lots of little growers (Olsens, Jarvis Estate, Artimus), and the scotts who grow a reasonable amount for Houghtons and usually get top billing with their grapes apparently. An "exciting" new area to borrow a rather hackneyed cliche.

Cheers

Mark G

Could get myself in large amounts of trouble here but I haven't seen anything from any of those producers to get me excited yet. Waaaayyyyy too early to judge for me, admittedly based on limited tasting. You may be in a better position to judge having probably seen more of the Osmington wines through serious analysis and comparison.

I can say that I've seen some surprisingly good stuff out of Jindong. And I was a doubter early on.

Cheers, brad

[Red Bigot]

fair call, the 7 acres however was gaining press in the early 90's.
even still 18 year old vines today in the barossa is hardly ancient.

I agree, I first bought 7-Acre from the 94 vintage, still have most of them, they are going strong, a couple of years to peak for my taste.

[Liz]

Also Kays Hillside reds are off "relatively young vines", not sure how old, planted 1991 as far as I can find out.

They do get a leg up though as they were taken from cuttings from the Block 6 vineyard which was planted in 1892! This is from their web site:

The new Hillside vineyard had its beginnings in 1992 when cuttings taken from the 100 year old gnarled vines of Block 6 were planted on the eastern hillside of the Amery Vineyard. Further plantings of the Block 6 clone took place in 1993, 1997, 1998 and 1999.

[Brucer]

Shirvington McLaren Vale Shiraz is from 6 year old vines. ( 2002 parker 99 points)

[Daryl Douglas]

Rick & Bettina Cullen's Mangan vineyard was planted in 1995. First vintage released by Cullen was 2000. The Mangan's an interesting wine that should continue to develop as the vines mature.

Cheers

daz

[Davo]

Davo's, planted 1999

[Mark G]

Could get myself in large amounts of trouble here but I haven't seen anything from any of those producers to get me excited yet. Waaaayyyyy too early to judge for me, admittedly based on limited tasting. You may be in a better position to judge having probably seen more of the Osmington wines through serious analysis and comparison.

I can say that I've seen some surprisingly good stuff out of Jindong. And I was a doubter early on.

Brad - coming from a man with southern MR experience, this is a bit tough . Yep it is a new area, but the reds from Olsens are improving each year and Houghton's premium MR CS is almost totally Osmington (and it's not a bad drop). We picked the area for its opportunity and the mix of a slightly cooler setting for a longer ripening period (but maybe with less vintage variation than Karridale for example). We are really trying to make a good healthy, not overly chemical vineyard with the emphasis on the vines - if this follows through we should be able to grow some decent grapes.

Yes there is some good stuff out of Jindong and credit here to the viticulturists that really put the yards in. We hope the Jindong vines go from strength to strength as good wine is always a pleasure

Cheers

Mark G

[Kieran]

One which I liked at the Victorian thingy, apart from obvious candidates like Savaterre and Kooyong, was Sutton Grange. (The current labels say something like Fairbanks Estate - Sutton Grange will be the premium label). Very subtle and complex wines from the first two vintages of the grapes, all at $20 and under.

Kieran