Advice for lordson – and any other wine n00bs

[KMP]

There is a wealth of information on wine in books, magazines, ezines, websites, blogs, and forums. The people that frequent (and post) on forums like this one can be fountains of personal experience. So I’m starting this thread in the hope that all will contribute some fragment of their own wine experiences for those who arrive at this site new to wine and seeking to learn more.

Free information on wine. Learning about wine requires drinking the stuff and that can be expensive, so what could be better than a few links to websites that provide free information.

WineDiva The is the best (free) resource for all things wine in Australia. Everything from wineries and vineyards, wine regions, grape varieties to jobs in the wine industry.

WinePros A great resource of free material on wine including archived tasting notes from James Halliday, the most experienced and knowledgeable of Australia’s wine critics.

Able Grape A search engine that aims to be the world's most comprehensive, up-to-date, and authoritative source for online wine information.

Local Wine Events A database filled with possible places to test-drive wines with listings of wine events all over the world.

Mike

[griff]

That's a nice summary there. assimilate the knowledge on those pages and one can be a wine yoda

cheers

Carl

[Jay60A]

That's a nice summary there. assimilate the knowledge on those pages and one can be a wine yoda

Yeah, Wine Yoda is a cool concept ... Master of Wine (MW) is just so passe ... there are thousands now, seemingly all writing for Decanter magazine.

Wine Yodas have to be able to evaluate wines held in black glasses in a seperate locked and lead-lined room using just the force. Few have any chance of qualifying.
However the force is strong in Jancis, who in a few years will be fully Jedi-trained to defeat the evil Darth Parker.

I bags the movie rights

[Waiters Friend]

I notice that Lordson has chosen not to reply to this post. Let's speculate on the reason.

[griff]

That's a nice summary there. assimilate the knowledge on those pages and one can be a wine yoda

Yeah, Wine Yoda is a cool concept ... Master of Wine (MW) is just so passe ... there are thousands now, seemingly all writing for Decanter magazine.

Wine Yodas have to be able to evaluate wines held in black glasses in a seperate locked and lead-lined room using just the force. Few have any chance of qualifying.
However the force is strong in Jancis, who in a few years will be fully Jedi-trained to defeat the evil Darth Parker.

I bags the movie rights

Don't forget the ability to spot faults (corked, reduction, oxidation) prior to opening the bottle

I have lots to learn regarding this particular use of the Force. I am in Paris with an opened bottle of Ruinart Rose NV ruined with TCA. Grrrr!

cheers

Carl

EDIT: how do you explain TCA to a Parisien?

[Jay60A]

EDIT: how do you explain TCA to a Parisien?

Le 2,4,6-trichloro-anisole ou TCA a pour formule : C6H2-Cl(3)--O-CH3) où les Cl sont en position 2,4 et 6 sur le noyau benzénique. La présence de ce produit, responsable du goût de bouchon défectueux, communique aux vin une odeur désagréable et un arôme de liège.
La 2,4,6-trichloroanisole peut être éliminée du liège par extraction au CO2 supercritique.
L'anisole, de formule : C6H5-O-CH3), possède une fonction alcoxy (méthoxy-OCH3) très répandue dans des molécules naturelles complexes telles que la lignine, les alcaloïdes et les glucides.

Alternatively in franglais, "Zut alors, mon ami - ce vin est merde!"

[Nayan]

EDIT: how do you explain TCA to a Parisien?

Le 2,4,6-trichloro-anisole ou TCA a pour formule : C6H2-Cl(3)--O-CH3) où les Cl sont en position 2,4 et 6 sur le noyau benzénique. La présence de ce produit, responsable du goût de bouchon défectueux, communique aux vin une odeur désagréable et un arôme de liège.
La 2,4,6-trichloroanisole peut être éliminée du liège par extraction au CO2 supercritique.
L'anisole, de formule : C6H5-O-CH3), possède une fonction alcoxy (méthoxy-OCH3) très répandue dans des molécules naturelles complexes telles que la lignine, les alcaloïdes et les glucides.

Alternatively in franglais, "Zut alors, mon ami - ce vin est merde!"

Or you could just say "Ce vin est bouchoné" (this wine is corked)

[DerekJ]

At least someone is trying to help! Thanks KMP! How about making this a sticky?

Honestly, some of the BS that gets thrown around here makes me think the term "wine w@nkers" is appropriate, and could not be better illustrated than to try and post an innocent question on this forum. The intimidation factor on this forum rates as one of the highest. Step back and try view some of the recent posts as a neutral observer. Some people show up as absolute d!cks.

There may be some attempts at baiting, but c'mon, how important do you think you are? This forum is one of the least active that I frequent, and on a topic so important as a drink. I would have much more fun baiting in a more active forum. More laughs. Though a funny lot, you are, mmmmm.

I tried at least 5 times to join this forum, being thrown out because of my username. I wonder how many other legit newbies gave up? The inner cliqueiness of this forum is astounding. Why not let the admins throw out the trolls and stop poking fun at the newbies?

[TORB]

This forum is one of the least active that I frequent, and on a topic so important as a drink.

There is a big difference between quality and quantity. On many forums (not necessarily wine) much of the content is banal banter.

The content of this forum is one of the highest around and the quality of the wine posts excellent.

[Alex F]

The intimidation factor on this forum rates as one of the highest.

I tried at least 5 times to join this forum, being thrown out because of my username. I wonder how many other legit newbies gave up? The inner cliqueiness of this forum is astounding. Why not let the admins throw out the trolls and stop poking fun at the newbies?

I disagree that the intimidation factor here is high. I find this forum to be one of the friendliest and active around.

Also, your username being deleted is unfortunate, but it is also one of those admin things that may be automated?

[bob parsons]

This forum is one of the least active that I frequent, and on a topic so important as a drink.

There is a big difference between quality and quantity. On many forums (not necessarily wine) much of the content is banal banter.

The content of this forum is one of the highest around and the quality of the wine posts excellent.

I agree TORB.

Derek whoever, many people here take a lot of time to post TNs that sometimes do not get acknowledged. It is not bs as far as I am concerned.
Enlighten us, where should we be posting?

[cuttlefish]

This forum is one of the least active that I frequent, and on a topic so important as a drink.

There is a big difference between quality and quantity. On many forums (not necessarily wine) much of the content is banal banter.

The content of this forum is one of the highest around and the quality of the wine posts excellent.

Yes TORB, but if I may weigh in, I think it's pretty obvious that there have been a number of very pointed posts from a number of experienced posters against particular newer members recently.
I've been really dissappointed by these plain nasty posts (calling someone an idiot and meaning it in a public forum really lowers the overall feel of the place FOR ALL POSTERS, and not just the one who the said post is aimed at)

The persons in question probably KNOW WHO THEY ARE, and would do us all a favour by TAKING IT OFFLINE, PLEASE !

I've been posting for about three years. I think I contribute meaningful content most of the time, whilst avoiding abuse against other posters. It's not that hard to do.
What I have witnessed here recently is more akin to BULLYING, and there is NO PLACE FOR BULLYING ON THIS FORUM.

Cuttlefish

[Daryl Douglas]

Yelling isn't bullyism?

[Davo]

You could do worse than spending a couple of decent bottles worth of bucks and get a set of "le nez du vin" scents and faults sets. At least then you will know what something smells like when a descriptor is given in tasting notes. They don't cover the entire smell spectrum but are a pretty good start. The rest can be filled in at the spice section at your favourite supermarket.

[Daryl Douglas]

You could do worse than spending a couple of decent bottles worth of bucks and get a set of "le nez du vin" scents and faults sets. At least then you will know what something smells like when a descriptor is given in tasting notes. They don't cover the entire smell spectrum but are a pretty good start. The rest can be filled in at the spice section at your favourite supermarket.

Cinnamon and nutmeg? Custard tarts?

[Waiters Friend]

[quote=" but if I may weigh in, I think it's pretty obvious that there have been a number of very pointed posts from a number of experienced posters against particular newer members recently.
I've been really dissappointed by these plain nasty posts (calling someone an idiot and meaning it in a public forum really lowers the overall feel of the place FOR ALL POSTERS, and not just the one who the said post is aimed at)
Cuttlefish[/quote]

Hi Cuttlefish

I have to agree about pointed posts, and in one sense I have contributed to it (by posting my intended abstinence to responding to certain posters). I also agree that the overt reference to an idiot might be construed as taking it a little too far....although I tried to advise the individual responsible...

....however, this is a WINE forum, and people who post here have expectations that they can discuss wine intelligently, and perhaps with a degree of background knowledge, although newbies are encouraged, and generally pampered a liitle. Those people that know a lot about wine might feel flattered to be providing advice to the novices, and that's fine. Certainly, I have learned from this forum in that fashion.

However, in this case, a certain poster might be raising the ire of longer-term posters by choosing to ignore the great swathes of advice that have been offered. I have a teenage step-daughter, and the responses we see from the unnamed poster are akin to those I see from those under 20 years of age - they only take on those parts of the avalanche of advice that they immediately feel is right for them, and disregard the rest. No wonder Penfolds now allegedly make a Bin 128 Cabernet.

I'm not averse to questions being asked - I just wish teenagers would listen to the answers before asking another question.

If this offends, then I would like to be told so, and I would remove myself from this forum on that basis. I certainly do not feel the forum is elitist or "up itself" and compliment those of you that have posted for a while, and on a rational and sharing basis, with like-minded people. We're not always going to agree, but we can talk.

Cheers

Allan

[Jay60A]

I think this is the best and friendliest forum along with Wine Pages UK. It is ... in no way ... intimidating and I have learned so much about wine (well Australian red wine!) here. Enough to have done a palate journey from aussie cheapos to aussie cults to aussie classics to cotie rotie!

I also enjoy the odd stoush between Craig(NZ) and Brian (Redbigot) as it shows they both have huge tolerance and a great sense of irony and humour that I suggest we could all look at. Why should it be any other way? We have real characters here and threads are not locked down or deleted ... Gavin is a moderator par excellence. This community exists on it's own spirit. Long may it continue.

So Allan stay ...and lordson stay ... and read ... and I'll buy and Penfolds Bin 128 Cabernet you have .

Jay

[TORB]

Allan,

Glad you are back and posting again. That's a well though out post and I agree completely wityh your sentiments.

As someone who has been guilty of having a shot at lodson, I have kept pretty quiet about this post as I didn't wish to look like I had the need to defend my comments, but Allan has hit the nail on the head.

Many people here have provided an enormous amount of advice and have tried to help, not just lodson, but for all newbies, yet to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a new poster has garnered this reaction. As Allan says, it gets up a lot of peoples nose when they offer advice and much of it is ignored. Add the fact that a number of responders have suggested wine books are a good place to start, but this suggestion has been dismissed. Now lodson, like all of us, has every right to decide what advice he will accept and which advice will be ignored, but when people are trying to help and that help is summarily repeatedly overlooked or dismissed, it causes a negative reaction.

There is also a big difference been offering assistance and spoon feeding someone.

[Bick]

The content of this forum is one of the highest around and the quality of the wine posts excellent.

Certainly agree with that, I've learned an enormous amount from it.

I find this forum to be one of the friendliest and active around.

I partially agree - its pretty friendly, but its not especially active. I used to frequent forums on other topics and they managed to stick to the subject, avoid banality in the main, and have high post count for almost every thread, with interesting discussions evolving rapidly over a day. I'm not sure why posting is so low on this forum - perhaps there simply aren't enough wine fanatics in Aus/NZ. Its pretty common for people to post a note or ask a question and have it met with a resounding silence - that can't help, and wouldn't happen on any number of other forums I could name. I think that gives the (inaccurate) view that its an intimidating place to post.

I also enjoy the odd stoush between Craig(NZ) and Brian (Redbigot) as it shows they both have huge tolerance and a great sense of irony and humour that I suggest we could all look at.

That's an interesting take on recent events

[TORB]

[ Its pretty common for people to post a note or ask a question and have it met with a resounding silence -

????? Bick, not having a shot at you but can you please give a couple of examples. I would have not thought this was the case at all.

[Bick]

[ Its pretty common for people to post a note or ask a question and have it met with a resounding silence -

????? Bick, not having a shot at you but can you please give a couple of examples. I would have not thought this was the case at all.

For notes that get no response you'll find half a dozen on the first page alone of the thread list. Regarding questions not being answered - this tends to happen much more within posts, rather than if its a new thread. I wouldn't want to single threads out espcially, but to give just one example - Ian (n4sir) posted a thread recently, entitled "TN: A super Cabernet blind tasting 1/9/08". It got only one response, in which the poster asked a question, and this wasn't answered by anyone and the thread died. No issue in itself, its just an example of what I feel happens quite a lot. I've asked questions in threads myself and not had them answered, though I know they must have been read by people who knew the answer or had an opinion. Not having a go at anyone, I'm part of the community, so part of the "problem", but if you search the forum threads I'm sure you'd find many other examples. I think there's just a slight inertia here for some reason and I don't know why.

EDIT: although posting has picked up markedly since Lordson's arrival!

[TORB]

For notes that get no response you'll find half a dozen on the first page alone of the thread list. Regarding questions not being answered - this tends to happen much more within posts, rather than if its a new thread. I wouldn't want to single threads out espcially, but to give just one example - Ian (n4sir) posted a thread recently, entitled "TN: A super Cabernet blind tasting 1/9/08". It got only one response, in which the poster asked a question, and this wasn't answered by anyone and the thread died.

Bick,

I don't get it!

People write tasting notes and get no response to them..... so what do you expect others to say? In my Tour Diaries there are up to 60 TN's in a Chapter and frequently there is no feed back. There is no point in commenting unless it adds value, is there?

As far as your example of Ian's post is concerned and the post being dead, Ian posted that one around midnight last night and Allan posed his question at about 1 am this morning. Give poor Ian a chance to get out of bed and have coffee before he answers.

In my experience here, I thought most questions are answered, that's why I asked for examples to see what I had missed. Sorry mate, but that example doesn't hold water.

[Bick]

People write tasting notes and get no response to them..... so what do you expect others to say? There is no point in commenting unless it adds value, is there?

I don't really agree. You don't have to "add value" with every post (thankfully) - its a forum, not the debating society, or a business. I'm not advocating that people should post more in response to TNs, I just think its a shame they don't get a better response, and I think it contributes to newbies being put off.

In my experience here, I thought most questions are answered, that's why I asked for examples to see what I had missed. Sorry mate, but that example doesn't hold water.

Fair cop - bad example (I thought it was an older post, for some reason). I wont trawl through the archives to find examples for you, but next time it happens I'll be sure let you know. I think this would be a livelier place if people posted more readily, that's all. I doubt I'm alone in thinking that.

[Red Bigot]

I think this would be a livelier place if people posted more readily, that's all. I doubt I'm alone in thinking that.

Bick, both here and on StarForum the proportion of people who post regularly is about 4% of registered members. That's just the way it is.

You can have the full on "social life" style of StarForum or the more "boring" style of this one. The discussion here ebbs and flows according to what strikes up a bit of interest, that's the way it's always been.

[Craig(NZ)]

Oh dear looks like im here late.

Will let you guys finish this game and i'll join in the next.

[DerekJ]

Glad I could stir up some passion!
By BS, I meant some of the replies to the questioned newb that brought about this most helpful post from KMP. TN are far from BS. They are, such as n4sir's here (http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=8743) superb, and indeed, make me envious, both by the wine consumed, and the quality of notes.
I have also learnt a great deal from information in this forum, and I am very grateful.
I just think Gavin is more than able to throw out the trolls without members posting such smartass remarks. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming, Gavin, that you have not thrown out Lordson because you have not made up your mind about him being legit or not?
My opinion is that he could be a fake, but then again, he reminds me of so many overseas uni students that I have met, particularly Hong Kong students, where life in the upper echelons of HK social circles means knowing wine. Then again, show me an under 25 yo that cannot Google???

[PaulG]

Posting as a 'Newbie', I thought I'd put in my 2cents (ah the joys of freedom of expression on the internet ).

This forum certainly isn't as lively as others around, specifically those dedicated to more... accessible topics, or those more closely related to the online experience, compared to wine. It's not stagnant by any means, but I would agree with those who don't think it is overly 'lively'. That being said, there appears to be a stable base of consistent posters, and there is life here. Questions are generally answered (or at least all of mine have been ) which is great.

In terms of intimidation, I haven't found it a huge issue. Certainly, seeing some of the reaction to Lordson's posts have made me think carefully about how I phrase questions, and I must admit that some responses may have been a bit harsh, but I haven't been overly disuaded by them. In all honesty, in the Lordson case I think that a part of the issue is one of understanding of the english language (seriously). It appears from the grammatical structure of Lordson's posts that he speaks English as a second language (Sorry if I'm wrong, Lordson ), and as such his posts come across less eloquently than they otherwise should. Further, this lack of understanding may be hampering his appreciation of the advise given out so far. Perhaps I'm completely wrong, but that is at least my take on the situation.

What I would propose to solve this situation is for there to be a sticky thread at the top of the forum saying something along the lines of:

Welcome to the Auswine Forum. We always welcome new posters, but before you ask a question, perhaps consider the following:
1. If regarding wine in general, have a quick read of the following articles:
<list>
2. If regarding a specific wine, please conduct a thread search to see what's already been said!
3. If you are new to wine and are wondering where to start, here are a few threads with recommendations for first time drinkers:
<>
etc.
Once you've gone through the above we'd love to hear your thoughts and help you with any questions you might have!


I apologise for being presumptuous for making this suggestion, but I thought it might make the information in posts like the original one in this thread more accessible to newbies, as well as assisting in improving the quality of newbie posts on here

[Red Bigot]

I apologise for being presumptuous for making this suggestion, but I thought it might make the information in posts like the original one in this thread more accessible to newbies, as well as assisting in improving the quality of newbie posts on here

Paul, good post and good suggestions. But newbies don't seem to read Sticies anyway, judging by the fact that lots still get deleted first up due to picking names that don't stick out from the mass of spam registrations despite the Sticky at the top of this forum.

Re lordson, it's not the expression or grammar that caused the reaction, for me it was the return to the same topic and introducing many other topics without (initially) any real acknowledment of or acting on the advice given. Plus a lot of seemingly conflicting information. Not something you would expect of a 4th year medical student.

Most newbies with a real interest in wine will follow up one or two topics initially and follow through with feedback on the advice or ask for clarification.

[PaulG]

But newbies don't seem to read Sticies anyway, judging by the fact that lots still get deleted first up due to picking names that don't stick out from the mass of spam registrations despite the Sticky at the top of this forum.

A very fair point. I guess that the issue will be that not everyone can be expected to approach the forum in a reasoned manner, and those who are the worst offenders at the moment are likely to be the ones who wouldn't read such a post.

What it would do, however, would be to provide other posters with a reference point to send such newbies to in each case. Where a newbie doesn't follow friendly advice to have a read of that post, then I would assume they cannot feel too hard-done-by if they don't receive an answer to their question.

In truth I'm not able to come up with another suggestion as to how the issue could be combated.

Edit: On further reflection, I guess my position would be, if 1 out of 10 new people looked at a stickied Newbie thread, and there was no harm caused by the creation of such a thread, then I don't see any good reason not to have one, apart perhaps from Forum clutter.

[KMP]

............. But newbies don't seem to read Sticies anyway, judging by the fact that lots still get deleted first up due to picking names that don't stick out from the mass of spam registrations despite the Sticky at the top of this forum.

...............

Ahhh, go on make it a sticky. We all (well some of us) enjoy a sticky now and then.

Mike