Hi All
I dont understand anything about tanninn ripeness but as it seems to be mentioned in many detailed tasting notes so I'd like to know more. How do you detect it: by taste or texture, etc, and what are the different characters of different levels of ripeness, under, over and ripe tannins?
Thanks
Tannin ripeness question
Tannin ripeness question
Justin B.
Hi Justin,
The language of wine is not always well defined but once you learn what people are talking about it will become easier to understand others and describe wines yourself. Ripeness refers to the grapes whilst we perceive tannins in the mouth. Ripe or unripe tannins could therefore be interpreted as: what someone perceives in a wine is a result of the "ripeness" of the grapes when picked. The state of ripeness of grapes can be measured by a range of indicators. More importantly, whilst grapes ripen the tannins of the wine made therefrom generally is known/thought to change. However, not only the tannins (polymeric phenols) change in quantity and quality, but so also do a range of other important wine components such as flavour compounds, acids, sugar, ions, polysaccharides etc.. All of these components can also influence our perception of red wine mouthfeel, for example, certain polysaccharides can reduce the perception of astringency whilst the pH of a wine has a major influence on mouthfeel.
From my experience, Shiraz picked at low ripeness can sometimes produce a wine with a thinner mouthfeel with tannins that appear to "stick" out - pointy or sharp is another way to describe it. With greater ripeness, I can perceive that a wine has plenty of tannins but that they are soft and sandy. This is entirely my own perceptions and they can be difficult to describe to someone else! I think it's generally thought that tannins of wines become softer as the grapes are picked at a riper state and that that may be due to changes in the quality and quantity of polymeric phenols, but also due to changes in other important wine components. Just keep in mind that what we perceive in wine often is a result of interactions between many different components, and that some of these interactions are still poorly understood.
A great way to get a better feel for changes in response to viticulture is to visit wineries where they can show you wines in the barrel - commercial products are often blended and you don't always hear the whole story.
Cheers,
Patrik
The language of wine is not always well defined but once you learn what people are talking about it will become easier to understand others and describe wines yourself. Ripeness refers to the grapes whilst we perceive tannins in the mouth. Ripe or unripe tannins could therefore be interpreted as: what someone perceives in a wine is a result of the "ripeness" of the grapes when picked. The state of ripeness of grapes can be measured by a range of indicators. More importantly, whilst grapes ripen the tannins of the wine made therefrom generally is known/thought to change. However, not only the tannins (polymeric phenols) change in quantity and quality, but so also do a range of other important wine components such as flavour compounds, acids, sugar, ions, polysaccharides etc.. All of these components can also influence our perception of red wine mouthfeel, for example, certain polysaccharides can reduce the perception of astringency whilst the pH of a wine has a major influence on mouthfeel.
From my experience, Shiraz picked at low ripeness can sometimes produce a wine with a thinner mouthfeel with tannins that appear to "stick" out - pointy or sharp is another way to describe it. With greater ripeness, I can perceive that a wine has plenty of tannins but that they are soft and sandy. This is entirely my own perceptions and they can be difficult to describe to someone else! I think it's generally thought that tannins of wines become softer as the grapes are picked at a riper state and that that may be due to changes in the quality and quantity of polymeric phenols, but also due to changes in other important wine components. Just keep in mind that what we perceive in wine often is a result of interactions between many different components, and that some of these interactions are still poorly understood.
A great way to get a better feel for changes in response to viticulture is to visit wineries where they can show you wines in the barrel - commercial products are often blended and you don't always hear the whole story.
Cheers,
Patrik
Winetasting Terminology
Hi Justin
Follow the link below to view my website dedicated to my publication, the Essential Wine Tasting Guide, which is the most extensive listing of wine terminology available to my knowledge.
It can provide you with the right wine words to describe most things that you might experience while winetasting.
Hope this helps.
Follow the link below to view my website dedicated to my publication, the Essential Wine Tasting Guide, which is the most extensive listing of wine terminology available to my knowledge.
It can provide you with the right wine words to describe most things that you might experience while winetasting.
Hope this helps.
Nothing like a free plug Glen. 
Whilst I don't wish to sound like I am in your pay (but you can buy me a glass in May
- and I hope its better than the last glass of cactus juice you tried to pass off as plonk 
) I have to concur with your comments about your guide. Over the years I have found it invaluable and use it regularly to clarify my thoughts.
Whilst I don't wish to sound like I am in your pay (but you can buy me a glass in May
- and I hope its better than the last glass of cactus juice you tried to pass off as plonk ) I have to concur with your comments about your guide. Over the years I have found it invaluable and use it regularly to clarify my thoughts.-
Student
TORB wrote:Nothing like a free plug Glen.
Whilst I don't wish to sound like I am in your pay (but you can buy me a glass in May
I agree TORB, the Essential Wine Tasting Guide is a valuable resource. I also note that a substantial portion of the details of the Torb Tasting Sheet (Copyright © Ric Einstein) on torbwine comes straight from the guide without any mention of it, even to the same order of words from the guide in the categories.
It must be pure coincidence, otherwise you would have mentoned it, given that you "use it regularly to clarify your thoughts".
~~~~ Sigh ~~~~
Another anonymous drive by poster having a personal dig without the intestinal fortitude to sign their own name.
I guess you could have asked me when I stopped beating my wife, its about as relevant as the rest of your dig at me.
Yes, my tasting note sheet which I initially designed for my own private use to formulate a picture of the wine was based on a proportion of the information used in Glens Guide, I have never said it did not and Glen knows full well that I used it as a partial base for my own tasting note sheet; something I have acknowledged on a number of occasions publicly.
Considering how complete that guide is, it would be impossible to design anything similar without covering some of the points in it and the words used, but thats not the point.
Your point was obviously to have a cheap shot at me and whilst I do use part of it regularly on my TN sheet, "I still refer to the (original complete version) regularly to clarify my thoughts."
Oh, and as to when I stopped beating my wife - when she stopped being my wife.
Another anonymous drive by poster having a personal dig without the intestinal fortitude to sign their own name.
I guess you could have asked me when I stopped beating my wife, its about as relevant as the rest of your dig at me.
Yes, my tasting note sheet which I initially designed for my own private use to formulate a picture of the wine was based on a proportion of the information used in Glens Guide, I have never said it did not and Glen knows full well that I used it as a partial base for my own tasting note sheet; something I have acknowledged on a number of occasions publicly.
Considering how complete that guide is, it would be impossible to design anything similar without covering some of the points in it and the words used, but thats not the point.
Your point was obviously to have a cheap shot at me and whilst I do use part of it regularly on my TN sheet, "I still refer to the (original complete version) regularly to clarify my thoughts."
Oh, and as to when I stopped beating my wife - when she stopped being my wife.